Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #63

[Awakening]

She is chubby in that one and blonde. The more recent one which shows the back of both FPs, IMO she looks large boned and wide across the hips and bottom.

But these photos are recent aren't they? The witness was referring to a plump blonde woman he saw 7 years ago. 7 years ago FFC looked different: slim, short dark hair.

7 years ago I was slimmer I swear! The average age for menopause is 51. After menopause carrying some extra weight around the tummy and hips is not unusual.

Not saying either way if "plump blonde woman" is FFC or not, but if there's going to be a comparison then I think using the walk through video taken on Day 6 or images closer to 2014 will help better than more recent images IMO.

 

[JWSleuth]

But these photos are recent aren't they? The witness was referring to a plump blonde woman he saw 7 years ago. 7 years ago FFC looked different: slim, short dark hair.

7 years ago I was slimmer I swear! The average age for menopause is 51. After menopause carrying some extra weight around the tummy and hips is not unusual.

Not saying either way if "plump blonde woman" is FFC or not, but if there's going to be a comparison then I think using the walk through video taken on Day 6 or images closer to 2014 will help better than more recent images IMO.

What’s the weather like in Kendall around September ? What about a jacket - pretty hard to see figure in a car as well

 

[Seabreeze1]

I also find how much access the media has to be something I havent seen before. There was nothing like this when Daniel's remains were found. I wonder if there is any chance that FF couldn't take the weight of knowing what FM may have done and has given the police intel and done a deal with them? This all just baffles me.

 

[Marg944]

Changed my mind about posting latest update about Court appearance today. Will read the rules again.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The relationship between Jubelin and the parents is highly questionable. His thinking isn't clear. Say I accidentally kill my child and can't even tell my partner so I dispose of his body and support an abduction theory instead, putting my partner through unimaginable grief. Selfishly, so he doesn't know I'm the cause. Years later the lead detective ambushes us with an interrogation, and upon leaving I suddenly say in the car "Jeez that was close, glad I got away with it again". Ruling them out based on their lack of collusion is poor logic.

In the fullness of time, guilty or otherwise, the foster parents influence will be shown to have impacted this case significantly I believe.

Yes, I very much agree with you. I think it's very likely that if she has done this she did not confide in the partner, so of course the listening devices would show nothing. Even now on this podcast he's not even entertaining the idea that the FM is involved, he's only discussing pedophiles, childless couples etc .. why can't he even entertain the idea hypothetically on his own podcast? It is problematic, there is an inability to have an open mind about things.

I think it's likely they eliminated the FP's too easily. We will see I guess.

 

[Estelle]

So, I just listened to the 3-part Little Boy Lost interview Lia Harris did one year after WT’s vanishing. A couple of highlights:

-MFC said he went to Laurelton (I thought it was reported as Lakewood)
-MFC said he drove into “the garage” upon returning
-MFC originally thought WT might have fell down a hole or wandered off even though he also said WT “knew his boundaries”
-MFC didn’t want to leave Kendall the final day of official search. Police almost had to “force” him to leave.
-MFC: “GJ is going to catch that person.”

-FFC couldn’t be sure WT would scream if confronted by kidnappers but she intimated he wouldn’t just oblige them.
-FFC said she saw the twin cars with windows rolled down and no people in them twice. Once on the verandah when she said hello to the Kookaburras and then later when she played with WT in the garden. She remembered them THAT NIGHT after coming back from airport (I thought it was second night after vanishing for some reason).
-FFC also intimates that she didn’t leave estate before calling 000 …

Neighbours were also interviewed:
-Woman who unloaded groceries and went inside: “that’s pretty good luck” in reference to the timing of the kidnapping (according to FFC when she informed her) when she was unloading her groceries at 10:35 AM. She also shared that her child would have been the only local one in the neighbourhood out that day at that time.

-Neighbour whose fence was 10m from kidnapping spot didn’t think this was an “opportunistic grab”

-This incident had changed Kendall. Kids were no longer allowed to play in street like they once were.

-WT’s 4th birthday was celebrated in Kendall amongst community members. That’s how touched they were.

Excellent observations. I remembered that in the early days, it was reported as MFC going to Laurieton when I first followed this case and when I returned found it being reported as Lakewood which is nearer to Kendall but I'd never heard of Lakewood before. (I used to teach in that area years ago)

 

[silverau]

I also find how much access the media has to be something I havent seen before. There was nothing like this when Daniel's remains were found. I wonder if there is any chance that FF couldn't take the weight of knowing what FM may have done and has given the police intel and done a deal with them? This all just baffles me.

We need to remember DM was in QLD, this is NSW. Also the sites for DM remains and evidence was in the Glasshouse Mountains area, not semi-rural area which has plenty of access roads.

But yes, the media all up in their faces is a bit much.

 

[they'll get you]

I just went back and compared photos .. I still think it is bio grandma- see pic of her in this story with child advocate- happy to be proved wrong however
William Tyrrell: Missing boy's doomed life before 'handpicked' for care - NZ Herald

Yes that’s bio blonde BGM with child advocate.

 

[they'll get you]

The relationship between Jubelin and the parents is highly questionable. His thinking isn't clear. Say I accidentally kill my child and can't even tell my partner so I dispose of his body and support an abduction theory instead, putting my partner through unimaginable grief. Selfishly, so he doesn't know I'm the cause. Years later the lead detective ambushes us with an interrogation, and upon leaving I suddenly say in the car "Jeez that was close, glad I got away with it again". Ruling them out based on their lack of collusion is poor logic.

In the fullness of time, guilty or otherwise, the foster parents influence will be shown to have impacted this case significantly I believe.

Mark and Faye Leveson threw their support behind Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin after he was controversially stood down from the case this week.

'If it wasn’t for him, we’d be out there digging every weekend looking for Matty,' Mrs Leveson told a 7 News reporter.

Matthew Leveson's parents throw support behind lead detective dropped from William Tyrrell case | Daily Mail Online

 

[Tench]

A question for the legal experts:

it has been suggested in previous threads that FGM was/ may have been suffering from dementia. A more recent post states that her will was altered three days before her demise last December. Can a will be changed if the testator lacks testamentary capacity?

 

[Awakening]

I'm not sure even that will make me choose which side of the fence. I have concerns about this court case and why it has come about (apart from the obvious ones about a child being assaulted). I also agree with Cleaver Green's earlier comment about the theatrics of this case and I find it almost concerning the way this is being played in the media. I don't think I have ever seen anything played out like this before with professional photographers and close ups of search items. Is it all purely political? Even that alone is an insult to poor William in my book. I really don't know what to think on this case at all.

I don't understand this method the police are using either. People are suggesting the police want to put pressure on a suspect. But police could still have done that without singling out anyone or the theatrics.

I'm wondering why they didn't just leave it as "we are going back to the beginning as per instructions from the coroner. We also have a new witness and new information. As a result everyone is a suspect, and areas and people previously looked at will be looked at again"

Saying there's "one female POI" I'm not sure is necessary? But obviously LE have more info then me.

Describing the previous investigation as messy, having a go at GJ and GJ hitting back, would make me furious if I was a loved one of WT's. I'd be saying stop the theatrics, the grandstanding and the politics, get on with the job and show some respect.

But that's JMO. And I remain hopeful LE have carefully and deliberately chosen this strategy to ensure the best outcome for WT.

 

[Estelle]

I also find how much access the media has to be something I havent seen before. There was nothing like this when Daniel's remains were found. I wonder if there is any chance that FF couldn't take the weight of knowing what FM may have done and has given the police intel and done a deal with them? This all just baffles me.

BBM IMO There are few signs that MFC could have been involved so far so we don't know if the FPs were in cahoots or not. But the fact that he has recently been charged with the alleged abuse of LT, makes me wonder why and what he knows. Let's hope if he knows anything he has told LE.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I understand some people attended the inquest, I have a few things to note.

Not all of the hearings were public, some were closed hearings.

At the time the inquest began, we (the public) had been led to believe the foster family had been unequivocally cleared. That caused many of us (but not all) to view evidence in a particular light.

The coroner heard evidence we didn’t hear.

The coroner ordered the seizure of FGM’s car, which was seized November 9 in Gymea.

The coroner ordered the subpoena of Channel 10’s Where’s William Tyrrell? podcast in which the FP’s were interviewed extensively. All raw audio, notes, files have been handed over.

The current search is being conducted under coronial orders and is “not speculative” according to police. In addition, police state a new witness “previously unknown” has come forward.

Police have made clear who the current POI is in relation to the current investigation.

This is a new team of investigators with a new lead investigator. The lead investigator, David Laidlaw, is highly regarded.

New information causes (some of) us to view old information in a new light.

I believed the abduction theory for years. Now, I’m not so sure. I’m not interested in hanging onto old theories in light of new information. I’m interested in knowing what actually happened to that little boy. I’m interested in the truth. William deserves the truth to be known, he deserves justice. No matter how uncomfortable that truth might be.

IMO

 

[Deleted member 296843]

I wonder how far was FGM was into the house sale when WT vanished? Was it just a offer and acceptance of a sale price, we know there was no realestate, are the only persons to hav sign or witness being the family friend who is buying and the family themselves,

I wonder if the police looked into the date the settlement agent was engaged if there was in fact a settlement agent involved, or when official contracts were drawn up and signed

I wonder if police took the familys word that a sale is going to happen to a family friend without a realestate agent

I wonder for the police if a signed offer and acceptance from FGM and family friend was enough to verify that a sale was to happen and I wonder what date it was presented to police was it immediately the day WT vanished or was it days later when official statements were finally given to police

I wonder how many days after a child disappears in your care would you be required to give an official statement, and I wonder if 1 brief statement is all that is required from a person who is present during a child disappearance

 

[mussopossum]

Were the previous threads and fabrics found in the search placed in paper evidence bags or yellow hazardous waste bags? This is the first have seen the yellow bag, other photos previously showed a paper bag.

Does it look like black fabric in the bag?

Wondering if this has been put in plastic as was found in the mud and wet or did they find blood or some other item on or in it that is considered hazardous?

Forensic archaeologist Tony Lowe and a police officer made their way over to the new part of the search site and were seen photographing the item, a small piece of black cloth, before placing it into an evidence bag.



Fresh images emerge in search for William Tyrrell

 

[Deleted member 296843]

I wonder how far was FGM was into the house sale when WT vanished? Was it just a offer and acceptance of a sale price, we know there was no realestate, are the only persons to hav sign or witness being the family friend who is buying and the family themselves,

I wonder if the police looked into the date the settlement agent was engaged if there was in fact a settlement agent involved, or when official contracts were drawn up and signed

I wonder if police took the familys word that a sale is going to happen to a family friend without a realestate agent

I wonder for the police if a signed offer and acceptance from FGM and family friend was enough to verify that a sale was to happen and I wonder what date it was presented to police was it immediately the day WT vanished or was it days later when official statements were finally given to police

I wonder how many days after a child disappears in your care would you be required to give an official statement, and I wonder if 1 brief statement is all that is required from a person who is present during a child disappearance

I don't want to not follow the rules are we allowed to talk about the sale of the FGM and the process?

 

[nightrider17]

Could Ronald Chapman have seen a blonde woman with hair in a bun - Bio GM?? MOO

 

[Estelle]

I understand some people attended the inquest, I have a few things to note.

Not all of the hearings were public, some were closed hearings.

At the time the inquest began, we (the public) had been led to believe the foster family had been unequivocally cleared. That caused many of us (but not all) to view evidence in a particular light.

The coroner heard evidence we didn’t hear.

The coroner ordered the seizure of FGM’s car, which was seized November 9 in Gymea.

The coroner ordered the subpoena of Channel 10’s Where’s William Tyrrell? podcast in which the FP’s were interviewed extensively. All raw audio, notes, files have been handed over.

The current search is being conducted under coronial orders and is “not speculative” according to police. In addition, police state a new witness “previously unknown” has come forward.

Police have made clear who the current POI is in relation to the current investigation.

This is a new team of investigators with a new lead investigator. The lead investigator, David Laidlaw, is highly regarded.

New information causes (some of) us to view old information in a new light.

I believed the abduction theory for years. Now, I’m not so sure. I’m not interested in hanging onto old theories in light of new information. I’m interested in knowing what actually happened to that little boy. I’m interested in the truth. William deserves the truth to be known, he deserves justice. No matter how uncomfortable that truth might be.

IMO

In other words, observations made by a member of the public who was not privy to everything that the Coroner heard is not necessarily relevant to the current investigation of a POI.

 

[they'll get you]

Let's be clear here, as a physician I can categorically tell you that there is no such thing as a "roaring reflex". In the photo WT appears to be looking directly at something or someone, not vaguely in the air. The relevance of this is not clear, but he was certainly NOT looking at her, as she claimed IMO.

William was looking at her and not into the camera. I can look through the viewfinder but still be able for the child to look at my face and not the camera.

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@ 7:49 FFC speaks of how the photo was taken.

 

[JayWill]

I wonder how far was FGM was into the house sale when WT vanished? Was it just a offer and acceptance of a sale price, we know there was no realestate, are the only persons to hav sign or witness being the family friend who is buying and the family themselves,

I wonder if the police looked into the date the settlement agent was engaged if there was in fact a settlement agent involved, or when official contracts were drawn up and signed

I wonder if police took the familys word that a sale is going to happen to a family friend without a realestate agent

I wonder for the police if a signed offer and acceptance from FGM and family friend was enough to verify that a sale was to happen and I wonder what date it was presented to police was it immediately the day WT vanished or was it days later when official statements were finally given to police

I wonder how many days after a child disappears in your care would you be required to give an official statement, and I wonder if 1 brief statement is all that is required from a person who is present during a child disappearance

My husband and I bought our second home from family friends and it was no different to a sale with an agent except they did not have showings and they did not pay the hefty agent's fee. It just went through our solicitor and their solicitor sent ours the contract and vice versa just before settlement. It took as long as other houses we have bought through agents, although now there is a process of having a quicker settlement.