Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #75

[drsleuth]

I linked it above. Happy reading, it's very interesting

I did read it, but it's not talking about what we are talking about.

I know all about taking blood gases & that they should be taken in a blood gas syringe ( pre-heparinized and handled to minimize air exposure ) for an accurate pH.

Arterial blood sampling - WHO Guidelines on Drawing Blood - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[katydid23]

Blood, hairs, dna in the boot of FGM’s car is an interesting perspective.

Even if he had been in FGM’s car it would most likely be before this trip as they’d only just got there.

It would also be unusual for it to be found in the boot because why would a child be in the boot?

But my understanding is the car was forensically tested soon after his disappearance so I’d expect something would have been picked up then.

Unless forensic technology has improved since then? Anybody know?

If there were any hairs or blood, I think it would have been found back when first searched. JMO

And IMO, if they just now found blood traces and hair or DNA, arrests would have been made already. JMO

 

[katydid23]

The point is that dead bodies leak. There may be characteristic combinations of leaked fluids that suggest a fresh corpse.

If there were any signs of that kind of leakage, in FGM's boot, arrests would have been made immediately, IMO

 

[SLouTh]

The link you provided talks about the blood pH in animal corpses & blood from rats & humans stored in vitro ( glass )

What is being talked about here , hypothetically, is blood in a crime scene. VERY different.

From your link

Biochemistry Changes That Occur after Death: Potential Markers for Determining Post-Mortem Interval - PMC

Death is likely to result in very extensive biochemical changes in all body tissues due to lack of circulating oxygen, altered enzymatic reactions, cellular degradation, and cessation of anabolic production of metabolites. These biochemical changes ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

were examined post-mortem over a 96 hour period in blood taken from animal corpses (rat and pig) and blood from rats and humans stored in vitro. The pH and the concentration of all six metabolites changed post-mortem but the extent and rate of change varied. Blood pH in corpses fell from 7.4 to 5.1. Concentrations of hypoxanthine, ammonia, NADH and formic acid all increased with time and these metabolites may be potential markers for post-mortem interval. The concentration of lactate increased and then remained at an elevated level and changes in the concentration were different in the rat compared to the human and pig. This is the first systematic study of multiple metabolic changes post-mortem and demonstrates the nature and extent of the changes that occur, in addition to identifying potential markers for estimating post-mortem interval.

Thanks Doc … I was going to bring Lactate up,

However, I don’t know if they can test for it forensically from dried blood?

But a rising lactate does indicate cell death ….as you would know … But we would need a whole anatomy and physiology lesson to try and explain it …. So JMO

 

[Dannywood]

I can’t access that link? 404 not found

Estimation of time since death from morphological changes in red blood cells of human cadaver: An autopsy-based study | Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks Doc … I was going to bring Lactate up,

However, I don’t know if they can test for it forensically from dried blood?

But a rising lactate does indicate cell death ….as you would know … But we would need a whole anatomy and physiology lesson to try and explain it …. So JMO

Yep, I nominate you for the tutorial

I'm on leave

 

[JLZ]

If there were any signs of that kind of leakage, in FGM's boot, arrests would have been made immediately, IMO

We don't seem to have a good answer to the question, if the car was forensically examined immediately, what sort of evidence were they looking for when they recovered it years later?

 

[SLouTh]

Yep, I nominate you for the tutorial

I'm on leave

hahahaha … and I am too sick…..

 

[drsleuth]

hahahaha … and I am too sick…..

Get well, I swear this is the worst "flu" season ever & it's only started.

BTW I saw a lactate of 9.8 & ph 6.85 the other day

Sorry for the O/T, back to William..........where are you???

 

[SLouTh]

We don't seem to have a good answer to the question, if the car was forensically examined immediately, what sort of evidence were they looking for when they recovered it years later?

The only think I can think of JLZ, is if they pulled the panels etc off and were checking for…. (dare I say it) blood seepage etc

Like a “full“ forensic search …. They maybe also now have technology that could download more data from the GPS than before ???? With technological advances …

JMO

 

[SLouTh]

Get well, I swear this is the worst "flu" season ever & it's only started.

BTW I saw a lactate of 9.8 & ph 6.85 the other day

Sorry for the O/T, back to William..........where are you???

QlD …. Yes the flu…. Horrendous … Thanks for the Get Well ….
Yes back to young William ….

 

[drsleuth]

We don't seem to have a good answer to the question, if the car was forensically examined immediately, what sort of evidence were they looking for when they recovered it years later?

Maybe forensic data stores?

12 Days of Vehicle Forensics - Berla.co

Through the month of December, we posted one fact about vehicle forensics per day for 12 days. These facts also reflect challenges faced by many investigators. In case you missed any, we’ve put them all together for you here. 1. Over 80% of crimes involve a vehicle, and almost every […]

berla.co

5. Many vehicle systems have an event log, recording things like doors opening/closing, lights turning on/off, etc. These events are often accompanied by a timestamp and geolocation data.

Anyone know what year & model Mazda 3 the FGM had.

 

[Dannywood]

Going by Foster Fathers walk through video, the Foster Mother only started searching the streets after he arrived back.

He also said the Foster Mother Claimed he was in the yard 5 minutes earlier.

 

[JLZ]

The only think I can think of JLZ, is if they pulled the panels etc off and were checking for…. (dare I say it) blood seepage etc

Like a “full“ forensic search …. They maybe also now have technology that could download more data from the GPS than before ???? With technological advances …

JMO

If there was seepage beyond the panels, there would have been more on the front side. If that wasn't originally found, there was very effective cleaning in a short time.

 

[Awakening]

If there were any hairs or blood, I think it would have been found back when first searched. JMO

And IMO, if they just now found blood traces and hair or DNA, arrests would have been made already. JMO

Yes that’s my thoughts too. How would it be missed the first time around?

Unless it was microscopic and in 7 years there’s been some advance in the technology forensics use when testing for blood?

I know nothing about how forensics test for blood (luminol?) and whether they way they test today is any different than 9 years ago?

 

[SLouTh]

If there was seepage beyond the panels, there would have been more on the front side. If that wasn't originally found, there was very effective cleaning in a short time.

Yes quite possible, unless it was just one drop….

From reading other threads here on WS I believe that Oxi-action bleach products like Vanish work well ….

But agree, the timeline as we know it, leaves little or no time for cleaning …..

I was just using that as an example for pulling the panels off … just pure speculation …

 

[SLouTh]

5. Many vehicle systems have an event log, recording things like doors opening/closing, lights turning on/off, etc. These events are often accompanied by a timestamp and geolocation data.

This type of evidence, used in some US cases recently, is quite mind blowing !!

 

[drsleuth]

This type of evidence, used in some US cases recently, is quite mind blowing !!

Yes, I re-call it in the Alex Murdaugh case.

This type of evidence could also corroborate the FFC's statements about her drive.

 

[SouthAussie]

This type of evidence, used in some US cases recently, is quite mind blowing !!

They sure tracked down every breath that Barry Morphew took, by his vehicle event log. This door was opened then, it was left open, it closed then, etc etc.

Anyone know what year & model Mazda 3 the FGM had.

They say FGM had a Mazda 3, I haven't seen what year.

Mazda started putting event logs in their Mazda 3 in about 2009.
Mazda 3 first was released in 2003, but I think it first came to Australia in 2005.
I guess it depends how old FGM's car was, and if they put event logs in the base model, or only certain models.

Mazda3's come with Event Data Recorders
Mazda 3
A short history of Mazda 3

 

[mussopossum]

The police are going to have some explaining to do.

The alleged assault happened in March. Charges weren't laid until October. Link
The police waited for months before having the children removed

I think both of those things could be true at the same time.

She was driving slow, looking out the window, listening for William. She sees a big truck coming fast, and pulls over because it is the safe thing to do AND because she is moving slow to look out the window.

I've done the same when my puppy kept digging under the fence to escape. I'd drive with window down and call him, listening as I drove, and would pull over for the fast drivers behind me.

Thanks, Katy, Agree it can be read or meant several ways, Good to hear others' thoughts to clarify exactly what she was saying.