Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #75

[JBowie]

I'm still trying to imagine what actual evidence the NSW Police have that would convince the DPP that prosecution is warranted.

We do know that the post-Jubelin strike force police have long held the view that the FM is covering up a fatal accident, as was revealed in relation to her appearance before the NSW Crime Commission:

A court was told the NSW Crime Commission grilled the foster mother in a secret hearing over allegations she disposed of William’s body after he fell from a balcony at his foster grandmother’s home. Detective Sergeant Andrew Lonergan, from the Tyrrell strike force, told the court he had formed the view that the foster mother “knew where William Tyrrell is”.

(pay-walled)

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/william-tyrrell-foster-mum-evidence-passed-to-prosecutors-by-police/news-story/42e159ec3e7b32ee10807cd8fbf7b093

... but a view formed by a Detective Sergeant is hardly evidence IMO.

I am now wondering if they have recordings of her saying things that they consider constitutes evidence.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think you can 'demand to see all the evidence' against you. That's what the trial is for.

ETA IF this even goes to trial, of course. There's still not even charges.

MSM are embellishing the wording. The letter says that they "call for the disclosure of the evidence which Police suggest form the basis of any criminal proceedings".

To me it sounds like they are saying (as others have already said) "put up, or shut up".


It is Nov 2021 all over again. "We have evidence involving a sole POI which we are not going to disclose, and we are going to do this big dig ... and we are letting you all know so that you can fill your media with it".

Only now it is "we have evidence so we put it before the DPP ... the ball is in the DPP's court. Now fill your media with that".

imo

 

[SLouTh]

I'm still trying to imagine what actual evidence the NSW Police have that would convince the DPP that prosecution is warranted.

We do know that the post-Jubelin strike force police have long held the view that the FM is covering up a fatal accident, as was revealed in relation to her appearance before the NSW Crime Commission:

A court was told the NSW Crime Commission grilled the foster mother in a secret hearing over allegations she disposed of William’s body after he fell from a balcony at his foster grandmother’s home. Detective Sergeant Andrew Lonergan, from the Tyrrell strike force, told the court he had formed the view that the foster mother “knew where William Tyrrell is”.

(pay-walled)

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/william-tyrrell-foster-mum-evidence-passed-to-prosecutors-by-police/news-story/42e159ec3e7b32ee10807cd8fbf7b093

... but a view formed by a Detective Sergeant is hardly evidence IMO.

I am now wondering if they have recordings of her saying things that they consider constitutes evidence.

I think it is possible the Police have evidence that media don’t know about …
I have also been trying to think about what that may be???
Happy to speculate if any one interested ???

However, I don’t think any “recordings“ of the NSWCC Hearings can be used against the FM …. Not sure if that is what you meant??
Police could use their own taped interview evidence … if there are discrepancies …

IMO

 

[suspicious]

I think it is possible the Police have evidence that media don’t know about …
I have also been trying to think about what that may be???
Happy to speculate if any one interested ???

However, I don’t think any “recordings“ of the NSWCC Hearings can be used against the FM …. Not sure if that is what you meant??
Police could use their own taped interview evidence … if there are discrepancies …

IMO

I wonder if Williams sister remembers stuff. My kids remember stuff from the same age.

 

[JBowie]

I think it is possible the Police have evidence that media don’t know about …
I have also been trying to think about what that may be???
Happy to speculate if any one interested ???

However, I don’t think any “recordings“ of the NSWCC Hearings can be used against the FM …. Not sure if that is what you meant??
Police could use their own taped interview evidence … if there are discrepancies …

IMO

I refer to recordings made by police via equipment secreted in the fosters' house, wherein the FM is allegedly heard beating WT's sister, etc.

We have no idea what else might be on those many hours of recordings. I am at a loss as to what otherwise may be in police possession that they consider 'evidence' suitable for consideration by the DPP.

Keep in mind that the DPP could very well say, "You call that evidence? Don't make me laugh"... or words to that effect.

PS: this all assumes that the so-called leak to the media has any substance.

 

[iiiii's]

Investigators formed the view the FM knew what had happened to WT well before the big dig, before the NSWCC, before the months long surveillance they had on the FFP's. Each of those steps would have required something to substantiate taking those actions and spending those resources of time and money wouldn't they?What triggered all of this off? Was it the query of the timestamp?

 

[Warshawski]

if they did, what would be the reason or strategy for police to leak this info, rather than give a brief press conference?

I agree bearbear - it’s intrigued me 2 fold, particularly as to why was it Ch 9 got the ‘scoop’. . is there a sympathiser there or a whistleblower elsewhere - or was it a carefully orchestrated 'leak' to perhaps cause some disruption to people’s comfort.

In itself all this can actually not be anywhere near as ‘ominous’ as it’s made out to be … and I say that with all my prayers being for very the long overdue answers.

IMO, it’s quite reasonable that Investigators would have the DPP go over their ‘ brief / hypothesis‘ to see if they agree with their ‘findings’ / direction … bla bla ( we once had a criminal investigator on here I believe - or was it a Barrister - anyway, where are those people when we need their input )

and despite the lawyers indignation, Police don’t have to give any warning that you’re about to be charged - you find out when it happens (ask all those that‘ve had their doors broken down). Of course she’ll make that statement - while she debits another $500 to the client’s account.

I want answers and I want closure for William, his Mum & Dad and extended family, and all the millions of people around the world who’ve invested their emotions in pushing for those answers. Every Failure should be a Lesson Learned and over some 9 years now, surely lessons have been learnt, in William’s Name.

 

[JBowie]

I wonder if Williams sister remembers stuff. My kids remember stuff from the same age.

I vividly recall stuff from before I started kindergarten at age 4, and it involved family violence. I won't elaborate other than to say that if it occurred today the perpetrator would have been behind bars quick smart.

 

[Green beans]

It’s possible the digging around FGM Kendall house and roads in the surrounding area provided evidence of Williams remains, and or related evidence that may have been previously placed there, even if these were subsequently moved at a later stage..
I hope William is found soon, given a proper burial, with dignity. A burial with honour and love that he deserves. Thinking of his siblings & bio family

 

[Warshawski]

yeah possible
I've got no problem with applying public pressure if that's all they have to work with.

These people have been afforded anonymity no one else in the case has had the luxury of.

Yes you can google and find her...but her image and name is still not blasted all over the news.

Still.... a protected species it seems.

why??

And all the others who’ve been publicly named in every misdemeanour that’s occurred - whether eventually found guilty or not - will be entitled to ask the same question K-mac.

There were / are rules that governed the publication of ‘foster’ situations ( a whole different & broad topic for debate… but one that imo needs to be addressed)

But that situation has long passed & someone needs to ‘grow some‘, state the obvious and place this & all associated, on the same playing field that everyone else has to abide by - allowing transparency & clarity to provide much needed information.

 

[JBowie]

It’s possible the digging around FGM Kendall house and roads in the surrounding area provided evidence of Williams remains, and or related evidence that may have been previously placed there, even if these were subsequently moved at a later stage..

Had that been the case, rest assured that the police would have trumpeted it to the media through loud hailers, as it would have validated the huge time and effort (and cost) of the Big Dig.

 

[Warshawski]

I wonder why they are going to the DPP instead of using a Police Prosecutor.
I don't think the police (and/or maybe the Coroner) are sure they have enough.


The following matters should be taken into account:
1. are there reasonable grounds to believe any evidence might be excluded
2. whether the prosecution witnesses are available, competent, compellable and reliable
3. the credibility and reliability of other admissible evidence in the prosecution case

https://www.odpp.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-08/Prosecution-Guidelines.pdf

Police Prosecutor are employed by the police dept & appear in the local court, while the DPP appears in high Courts like the district or Supreme Court. The police will refer more serious offences such as strictly indictable offences to the DPP.
but I wonder when they handed it to the DPP . Could’ve been last week, or week before, or …

 

[bearbear]

Had that been the case, rest assured that the police would have trumpeted it to the media through loud hailers, as it would have validated the huge time and effort (and cost) of the Big Dig.

unless theyve only just got the forensic results back from the last dig and theyre keeping the results quiet to add to the list of evidence

 

[Warshawski]

The false or misleading evidence charges ....
"New hearing dates of November 6 and 7 were confirmed, with the matter to be mentioned briefly in September."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/update-in-william-tyrrell-foster-dads-case-of-allegedly-lying-to-the-nsw-crime-commission/news-story/ad5eec5a992408391ed19e05be83b878

The common assault charges ....
"Both foster parents are expected to face a hearing in September over charges of common assault and stalking and intimidation in relation to another child who is not William."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/william-tyrrell-foster-dads-trial-for-allegedly-lying-to-crime-commission-pushed-back/news-story/54a390cd389a4edff0763d5747dd6f5b?amp

I’m not even talking about these particular cases when I say there needs to be a serious overhaul of court appearances / trials in this country.

Far too much leniency, time & money wasting imo.

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, it seems the Police Prosecutors can only prosecute in Local Court, and only Table 1 and Table 2 offences ... "summary offences".

From what I have read, Interfering with a Corpse is a Table 1 offense (due to max penalty being up to 2 years in prison).
And Perverting the Course of Justice is an indictable offense (due to max penalty being up to 14 years in prison).

Perverting the Course of Justice is considered a higher offense.

Offences against justice/in public office

www.judcom.nsw.gov.au

https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/crimi

http://

 

[Warshawski]

They cannot allow any prospect of vigilante justice by erratic people. If there is enough to charge anyone, it needs to go properly through the courts.

absolutely agree SA…. and that in itself is a matter for our laws & their enforcers to take care of.

however I’m concerned for the apparent division in applying ‘anonymity’ in our courts & imo that shouldn’t be up to the determination of a magistrate who’s heart strings may get pulled by a particular lawyer. It’s a subject not for debate in the here & now, but imo it’s a big issue the tugs at our culture of non-discrimination.

 

[Warshawski]

If the DPP decline to prosecute based on the evidence the police have presented, I am guessing that the Coroner won't be able to recommend prosecution? Seeing that prosecution had already been declined
.

I guess that‘d be the case ‘based on the evidence presented to the DPP’.

But new evidence could always come to light & be presented.

Would the DPP come back & say 'this has definitely got legs but you need more solid evidence '

 

[bearbear]

 

[bearbear]

has anybody seen this (posted above) on google maps? i saw it on another site and googled queens lake nature reserve nsw and its there, who would add this to google maps?

 

[Miss-e]

Is there any further information about the bone fragment found in 2021?