Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[Twick]

It seems there is a certain type of active outdoors person who enjoys dragging those less capable (inexperienced, unfit, too young) into dangerous situations. Why? Perhaps to prove their superiority or control. Perhaps as a “punishment” for perceived misbehaviour. Perhaps to play out a “saviour complex “ I heard someone refer to it as “assault by nature.”

He may not have intended to kill her, but I’m sure he knew she’d essentially be at his mercy at some point during the climb.

 

[beubeubeu]

RSBM
Curious what you mean here... you've used the term 'infection' a couple times.

To me, an infection means a bacterial or viral disease in the body - a UTI?, a URI?

And if KG had an infection, where did you here that? I must have missed that...

No idea...
I was sure that it was mentioned in at least two news articles from last week, but I cant find it now, but I went through so many Im unable to check all of it at the moment.
So I apologize and warn that it may not be accurate, maybe bad translation of "sickness", I dont know.

But even apart from that Im just utterly confused.
Several article say that they actually had a CAMP below the summit and were waiting there for the bad weather to pass. But if so, then wth?
How visible their headlamps could be in a tent? How people in helicopter could see that theyre "turning their heads away" and not signalizing anything if they were covered?
And... then what? He spend some time in that camp, then packed it up and left her without anything, totally exposed to "get help"?
But other articles say that they had nothing.

One claims that they were climbing all the time till almost midnight but if they were climbing then how people could get so concerned seeing them "stuck" on the peak to have helicopter go there and people investigating the identity of climbers. How it can be so much all around the place?

 

[Trebor5591]

What a horrid story.

Sounds like intentional negligence, unless he was also hypothermic and delusional.

I wonder what his defense will be?

That poor woman, entrusting her life...

"unless he was also hypothermic and delusional."

That would be my guess. I am shocked that charges are being filed against him, what a colossal waste of resources. Mountain climbing is incredibly dangerous, IMO.

 

[beubeubeu]

It seems there is a certain type of active outdoors person who enjoys dragging those less capable (inexperienced, unfit, too young) into dangerous situations. Why? Perhaps to prove their superiority or control. Perhaps as a “punishment” for perceived misbehaviour. Perhaps to play out a “saviour complex “ I heard someone refer to it as “assault by nature.”

He may not have intended to kill her, but I’m sure he knew she’d essentially be at his mercy at some point during the climb.

Doesnt apply here either. These people hate to look bad.
If it was intended as show off or power play, he would win that game and came out as a hero and savior if he got her down safely, started taking care of her at some point and if he called help. This doesnt look consistent with the provided info either.

I have to comb through all of that once again and check Austrian/German/British news sources cause Im starting to get Lars Mittank deja vu. That case blew up all around the world cause of the "mysterious" aspect and mental health speculations - and that seemed like pretty reasonable conclusion, till I started checking sources in German, not in English and noticed that soo many details were just translated so poorly that it basically made into a different story.

God, I wish I could just put on some filter and block everything that was translated, written or made with any sort of AI help. Few years ago it felt like searching for info, now it feels like swimming in rubbish.
(and now I have to jump back right in, cause after all what I said here about his actions it'd be awful if it was AI-induced-poor-news-reporting what made him look like murderous monster).

 

[beubeubeu]

"unless he was also hypothermic and delusional."

That would be my guess. I am shocked that charges are being filed against him, what a colossal waste of resources. Mountain climbing is incredibly dangerous, IMO.

Working as a paramedic or firefighter is incredibly dangerous, IMO.

Each fatality in Austria is investigated and closed rather quick.
Trials are rare, and so far it was like shooting someone or taking bunch of kids on advanced trail and leading them to death or injuries.
Hundreds of people are dying in Alps every year.
Most people don't climb alone.
They arent colosally wasting their resources filing charges often.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

"unless he was also hypothermic and delusional."

That would be my guess. I am shocked that charges are being filed against him, what a colossal waste of resources. Mountain climbing is incredibly dangerous, IMO.

Doesn't it then follow that if they are pursuing charges in this particular case, they must have reasons for doing so?

Is Austria like Germany-- will the case go before just a judge?

 

[beubeubeu]

Is Austria like Germany-- will the case go before just a judge?

Yes, judge.

Some of these articles made it sound like (NONE says that, but for me the way its said) on one side there were people freaking out about the climbers stuck below the peak for hours, notifying that there seem like there are people in need of rescue + full surveillance that showed them actually stuck there for hours + rescue services working to identify climbers and making rescue attempts vs. him claiming that they were still slowly climbing up till about midnight.

And kinda... common sense makes ME assume that there is nobody who knows better what climbers may be struggling with on that mountain than people who work there and are assisting people on regular basis there.

Its very clearly stated that both sides ARE holding some things close to their chests and wont reveal it till the actual court case. So there must be more than they have against him and more than he has to explain his actions... so no matter what we dont have the full picture yet.
There has to be something serious that makes people highly experience with this mountain specifically to go "whoa, that doesnt make sense".

 

[georgiajean]

Glad to see this case here. I've been reading about it ever since it started hitting MSM a couple weeks ago.
There is a book, Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by journalist Laurence Gonzales. Highly recommend for anyone who does outdoor adventures as well as anyone who sleuths outdoor adventures gone wrong. I learned a lot from this book about how there are some mental constructs that we need to be aware of and actively combat in order to stay alive. For example, the "We've already put in X hours, we can't give up now" and the "Just one more (mile, hour, turn)" are two thoughts that are very common and get people into a lot of trouble. Also, the "Just going out on a quick hike,, no need to take snacks/water/a jacket" until the storm rolls in, there is an unexpected detour on the chosen route, and someone twists an ankle. He presents a list of rules, including "If you planned to leave at X and get delayed, do not continue with the hike." and "Every person needs to have their own map and communication device/gps beacon."

At any rate, I highly recommend the book.

My guess (not an expert in any high-risk adventure sports, so just my opinion!) is that this has a lot to do with ego and them getting in over their heads and him not being willing/able to make proper choices once things started going south. He was the experienced hiker, and when (if) she started questioning him or wanting to turn back, he wouldn't, and managed to convince her to keep going. Or perhaps she was too caught up in also showing she was strong and capable (his equal) that she mustered on long before she should have stopped.

This is a case I hope is recorded, or there is a good reporter texting from within.

 

[mickey2942]

The folks on Mount Everest who left their teammate to die, didn't get charged. I wonder if this will be a new trend, to charge people who leave teammates.

This Man Was Left to Die on Everest, But These Hikers Sacrificed Reaching the Top To Save His Life

Near Everest's peak, the climbers faced a choice: head for the summit, like others had done, or stop to save the injured man.

www.rd.com

 

[Cedars]

My guess (not an expert in any high-risk adventure sports, so just my opinion!) is that this has a lot to do with ego and them getting in over their heads and him not being willing/able to make proper choices once things started going south. He was the experienced hiker, and when (if) she started questioning him or wanting to turn back, he wouldn't, and managed to convince her to keep going. Or perhaps she was too caught up in also showing she was strong and capable (his equal) that she mustered on long before she should have stopped.

I agree.

I have experience with people really into extreme sports - and the kinds of books and films they love - which I found mystifying.

I eventually concluded enthuiasts see a sort of glory in it. It feels heroic, like warriors proudly marching off to battle, full of confidence in their own success and survival. They also feel a unifying, transfixing sense of purpose and focus on conquering the mountain, and an intense bond with other people who aren't afraid of challenges, compare with the mass of humans who won't step out of their comfort zone.

IMO, pivoting from that mindset is not always easy. Although experienced, this guy had no training as a guide, and was probably unfit to be playing that role.

JMO