Autopsy Report - Tox Report

[NocturnalLady]

NocturnalLady, on one of the "splinter" threads, posted perhaps it came from TL's garbage bag ........... I ....... don't know??!! Would they waste some of their "stash," or was it residue from someone's hands?

Anyone who has ever smoked pot from a bong also knows that people who are high constantly knock over the bong and spill the nasty bong water. Clean up from that spill would leave plenty of THC to be found in the trash.

Or so I have heard. :angel:

 

[NocturnalLady]

Page 6556

"Additionally, several of the identified compounds are typically associated with anaerobic decomposition.
While the actual significance of this is not known, it indicates that any type of decompositional event that might have been associated with the odor in the trunk of the car could have occurred under deprived oxygen conditions."

Ok...so this would indicate the probability of suffocation or drowning correct?

No it means that there wasn't much air in the trunk. It was kept closed with a probably tightly closed trashbag containing a body. The decomp occured in a "sealed" environment while there was not much air present.

 

[msinformed]

Anyone who has ever smoked pot from a bong also knows that people who are high constantly knock over the bong and spill the nasty bong water. Clean up from that spill would leave plenty of THC to be found in the trash.

Or so I have heard. :angel:

Yeah .... that's what I've always heard!

 

[nitasch]

Hmm ...... maybe just the "deprived oxygen conditions" of a closed trunk?

A big DUH on my part....my eyes were reading decomposition, my mind was thinking COD...thanks for the reality check!

 

[steadychick]

Here's something that was a big bombshell for me -- page 14 of 36 under the Report of Osteological Analysis/Condition of Remains and Processing" -- "A hair mat was noted on the base of the skull and grayish tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas."

Is this saying that the duct tape appeared to be covering the nose???? Maybe this is why BC seemed to be so focused/worried about the duct tape references in the report!!!

Don't know if this is in the right place, as there seem to be several autopsy threads going. MODs, please move if appropriate.

 

[Bittiness39]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...mendously.html
This was also posted in today's news thread as well. They are saying suffocation is likely the cause. That likely Caylee was deprived of oxygen and likely suffered TREMENDOUSLY.
Oh dear God. I have to take a few minutes to compose myself.

 

[Tracey276]

I have concerns about the hair matting, itself. If she was always in the bags, how did the hair get all matted? Was it possible she got her hair matted because she was lying on the hair for a long time and not deceased to get all tangled. I didn't read anywhere that animals had gotten the skull out of the bag. I'm sorry to be so graphic. I am just really concerned about what that poor baby actually experienced her last moments in life.
I'm hoping someone will tell me that yes, the hair would get matted even after death.

 

[NocturnalLady]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...mendously.html
This was also posted in today's news thread as well. They are saying suffocation is likely the cause. That likely Caylee was deprived of oxygen and likely suffered TREMENDOUSLY.
Oh dear God. I have to take a few minutes to compose myself.

I really think this report is based on a misreading of the autopsy combined with the fact that there was duct tape over her mouth.

When the autopsy talks about chemicals associated with an anaerobic event they are talking about the process of decomposition itself not the circumstances of the murder.

Of course - just to confuse things I personally do believe that Caylee was suffocated/choked to death. It's just that the autopsy doesn't prove this - it only proves that she initially decomposed in an environment that was oxygen poor - like being double bagged in a closed car trunk.

 

[steadychick]

I have concerns about the hair matting, itself. If she was always in the bags, how did the hair get all matted? Was it possible she got her hair matted because she was lying on the hair for a long time and not deceased to get all tangled. I didn't read anywhere that animals had gotten the skull out of the bag. I'm sorry to be so graphic. I am just really concerned about what that poor baby actually experienced her last moments in life.
I'm hoping someone will tell me that yes, the hair would get matted even after death.

From what I've read, I'm thinking that the hair mat is actually a mat of hair formed where the hair separated from the scalp and is probably a natural formation under the circumstances. Perhaps someone more familiar with forensics can tell us for sure. Not a pretty thought.

 

[Bittiness39]

I really think this report is based on a misreading of the autopsy combined with the fact that there was duct tape over her mouth.

When the autopsy talks about chemicals associated with an anaerobic event they are talking about the process of decomposition itself not the circumstances of the murder.

Of course - just to confuse things I personally do believe that Caylee was suffocated/choked to death. It's just that the autopsy doesn't prove this - it only proves that she initially decomposed in an environment that was oxygen poor - like being double bagged in a closed car trunk.

TY. I was having a major panic attack there. But it could follow as a theory of the case: (1)Sometime on day of the 16th after GA left for work. KC came back to the house...and either killed Caylee at the house and duct taped her mouth and possibly her nose shut triple bagged her and threw her in the trunk so that she could hang out with her BF...and not be disturbed. She didn't want to wait around for her parents to come home and leave Caylee with them. Likely, because they were already so angry with her...knew that this might be the final straw that broke the camel's back and that they would sue her for custody and kick her lazy deceitful rear out of the house. She has her evening with Tony. A few days later the car is starting to smell to high heaven so she dumps the body where she used to hang out and bury pets. And in doing so...the bags (already weakened and disturbed from the decomp) have already leaked all of the car. She lifts the bag likely getting it all over herself...and then the lost cause effort to clean up the decomp with the paper towels. The car that she abandoned is a treasure trove of evidence (toxicology and decomposition) and it is the ultimate indicator of her guilt and her understanding of right and wrong.

 

[Cara's Mom]

Anyone who has ever smoked pot from a bong also knows that people who are high constantly knock over the bong and spill the nasty bong water. Clean up from that spill would leave plenty of THC to be found in the trash.

Or so I have heard. :angel:

Yeah, I heard that too. Wink-wink.

 

[OneLostGrl]

From what I've read, I'm thinking that the hair mat is actually a mat of hair formed where the hair separated from the scalp and is probably a natural formation under the circumstances. Perhaps someone more familiar with forensics can tell us for sure. Not a pretty thought.

Yeah- this is what I thought too. I don't think it's saying her hair was matted.. it's like a part of the skull or hair or whatever.

Now I have no idea if this is what it is- I'm just guessing based on how they refered to the "hairmat".

 

[NocturnalLady]

TY. I was having a major panic attack there. But it could follow as a theory of the case: (1)Sometime on day of the 16th after GA left for work. KC came back to the house...and either killed Caylee at the house and duct taped her mouth and possibly her nose shut triple bagged her and threw her in the trunk so that she could hang out with her BF...and not be disturbed. She didn't want to wait around for her parents to come home and leave Caylee with them. Likely, because they were already so angry with her...knew that this might be the final straw that broke the camel's back and that they would sue her for custody and kick her lazy deceitful rear out of the house. She has her evening with Tony. A few days later the car is starting to smell to high heaven so she dumps the body where she used to hang out and bury pets. And in doing so...the bags (already weakened and disturbed from the decomp) have already leaked all of the car. She lifts the bag likely getting it all over herself...and then the lost cause effort to clean up the decomp with the paper towels. The car that she abandoned is a treasure trove of evidence (toxicology and decomposition) and it is the ultimate indicator of her guilt and her understanding of right and wrong.

That's a reasonable scenario. I think the report about the process of decomp fits in very easily with everything else we know & have put together. Just another nail in the coffin.

 

[OneLostGrl]

TY. I was having a major panic attack there. But it could follow as a theory of the case: (1)Sometime on day of the 16th after GA left for work. KC came back to the house...and either killed Caylee at the house and duct taped her mouth and possibly her nose shut triple bagged her and threw her in the trunk so that she could hang out with her BF...and not be disturbed. She didn't want to wait around for her parents to come home and leave Caylee with them. Likely, because they were already so angry with her...knew that this might be the final straw that broke the camel's back and that they would sue her for custody and kick her lazy deceitful rear out of the house. She has her evening with Tony. A few days later the car is starting to smell to high heaven so she dumps the body where she used to hang out and bury pets. And in doing so...the bags (already weakened and disturbed from the decomp) have already leaked all of the car. She lifts the bag likely getting it all over herself...and then the lost cause effort to clean up the decomp with the paper towels. The car that she abandoned is a treasure trove of evidence (toxicology and decomposition) and it is the ultimate indicator of her guilt and her understanding of right and wrong.

Great post!!!It also shows she's not very bright

 

[msinformed]

I have concerns about the hair matting, itself. If she was always in the bags, how did the hair get all matted? Was it possible she got her hair matted because she was lying on the hair for a long time and not deceased to get all tangled. I didn't read anywhere that animals had gotten the skull out of the bag. I'm sorry to be so graphic. I am just really concerned about what that poor baby actually experienced her last moments in life.
I'm hoping someone will tell me that yes, the hair would get matted even after death.

What you have presented is a possibility, for sure. Or, could the ebb and flow of the water in which her remains were lying have contributed to this. I know my hair will tangle/mat after drying if I've been, say floating in the pool .... and, I fail to comb it while it is wet ........ just a thought.

 

[Bittiness39]

Great post!!!It also shows she's not very bright

It is what her friends believe as well. TY. Also, today's autopsy is giving me the one thing that has been lacking, for me. I was always worried about the hair with the band of death and the TN farm test on the trunk. I always felt like that those two things LKB would have a field day with. Now we have decomposition as the source of the stain of the trunk. Poor GA (I just remembered he told LE he put his face right up to the stain to smell it...)--in this one thought. But we have decomposition in the trunk. Irrefutable evidence that the bags were leaking in the trunk. Once thrown from the trunk the remains were never moved. We have paper towels with her decomp all over them still left in the trunk. Showing she attempted to clean up. Realizing that the smell was so awful...she had to dump that car at some point even if it was out of gas. We have, for me, with today's autopsy release, 100% proof that KC did something to Caylee (we can all speculate but even the ME can only say homicide by undetermined means), bagged her up right away and threw her in the trunk. No one else was involved. No one. There is no room her for any reasonable doubt whatsoever that KC did all of these things.

 

[2goaliemom]

It is what her friends believe as well. TY. Also, today's autopsy is giving me the one thing that has been lacking, for me. I was always worried about the hair with the band of death and the TN farm test on the trunk. I always felt like that those two things LKB would have a field day with. Now we have decomposition as the source of the stain of the trunk. Poor GA (I just remembered he told LE he put his face right up to the stain to smell it...)--in this one thought. But we have decomposition in the trunk. Irrefutable evidence that the bags were leaking in the trunk. Once thrown from the trunk the remains were never moved. We have paper towels with her decomp all over them still left in the trunk. Showing she attempted to clean up. Realizing that the smell was so awful...she had to dump that car at some point even if it was out of gas. We have, for me, with today's autopsy release, 100% proof that KC did something to Caylee (we can all speculate but even the ME can only say homicide by undetermined means), bagged her up right away and threw her in the trunk. No one else was involved. No one. There is no room her for any reasonable doubt whatsoever that KC did all of these things.

:clap::clap::clap: Great posts LB35 --do you think that this would tie in with Casey taking a shower at JG's??? If she spilled decomp on herself, she would have to clean up - and what if GA was home - couldn't go there???

 

[DaughterAlice]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...mendously.html
This was also posted in today's news thread as well. They are saying suffocation is likely the cause. That likely Caylee was deprived of oxygen and likely suffered TREMENDOUSLY.
Oh dear God. I have to take a few minutes to compose myself.

LittleBitty, I recently read that too. I am so sick in my heart right now. I never thought I would hope the chloriform theory was true, but NOW I find myself hoping that KC did indeed put her out with Choriform first. I hope and pray that poor baby Caylee never woke up, and never saw what her own mommy was doing to her.

BTW, I LOVE your posts!! I love that there are so many mature and intelligent participants (like you) on this board. Thanks for all your valuable input.

 

[Bittiness39]

:clap::clap::clap: Great posts LB35 --do you think that this would tie in with Casey taking a shower at JG's??? If she spilled decomp on herself, she would have to clean up - and what if GA was home - couldn't go there???

I guess the speculation was that she dumped the body around the time she borrowed the shovel (2.5 days of decomp) so sometime in the afternoon or evening of the 18th...If it was in the afternoon, perhaps, and if her parents were not home she may have come home and showered...or she took the pants and shoes she was wearing off in the car and changed into other clothes she had with her? I don't know. I am guessing it was at night. I wish I had those pings in front of me. To show where she was during the evening and afternoon of the 18th.

 

[impatientredhead]

From what I've read, I'm thinking that the hair mat is actually a mat of hair formed where the hair separated from the scalp and is probably a natural formation under the circumstances. Perhaps someone more familiar with forensics can tell us for sure. Not a pretty thought.

My take on the matting of the hair is that she was face up when left in the wooded area. The weight of her skull against her hair that is now being exposed to condensation inside the bag, filling with water at some point (we know the bags were not sealed), and gravity pulling the liquification of the soft tissues in that area would all result in matted hair.