awaiting sentencing phase

[JudgeJudi]

Personally speaking, I'd love to see a retrial but it won't happen because the Bill of Rights in the Constitution of South Africa forbids a retrial when there has already been an acquittal or a conviction.

The defence, if you can call it that, would be even weaker and the prosecution would play their cards differently. A competent judge and competent assessors would not doubt reach an entirely different conclusion.

I've never seen a trial like this before, or even heard of anything like it. What next? The surprises just keep on coming and you can bet there'll be more. The family are positively toxic.

"toxic" - being poisonous especially when capable of causing death, extremely malicious or harmful (and relating to OP in particular) being an asset that has lost so much value that it cannot be sold on the market

The poisonous Pistorius clan may be rich and powerful but their standing in the community has got to be down near zero apart from their good buddies.

 

[mrjitty]

Not to lay it on too heavy - but given the charge was murder - actions which might be construed as helping to cover up the crime leave one open to being charged as an accessory

 

[JudgeJudi]

James Grant @CriminalLawZA · 53m

"New evidence" can't be added to trial or any appeal by prosecution.
Carl? If allegations true, could face obstruction of justice charge.

 

[mrjitty]

I'd like it explained too, jay-jay. CP removed evidence which could have been vital to the investigation. Why did he delete calls that were made after the killing? What could have been said that needed to be deleted? And how about the wasting of police time, and all the financial costs his actions incurred, with police having to fly out to Apple to try and get the information off the phone. He's a deceitful lowlife, just like his brother. Covering up for him and tampering with evidence, knowing that he was preventing Reeva's family from getting the truth about what really happened that night. As for Uncle Arnold, how proud he must be of his lying murderous clan.

I don't really understand it myself.

The cell tower records give rise to a strong inference that the phone was at the house - and was then removed after OP was arrested.

The number indicates he was the owner.

So unless the defence was going to argue it happened to be lying around nearby?

There is a sense of unreality to this because how did the defence happen to come in to possession of it?

Nel must have been shaking his head at the incompetence of the police investigation.

 

[JudgeJudi]

“In hindsight perhaps we should have gone on the offensive but at the end of the day Gerrie Nel had to weigh up one evil against another – and the fact is Hilton Botha could have sunk the state’s case,” one source said.

A second source close to the National Prosecuting Authority said that because it wasn’t clear what had been deleted from Oscar’s cellphone, it would have been difficult to charge Carl Pistorius.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Would this have mattered? The fact is material was deleted from a piece of evidence illegally removed from the crime scene.

 

[mrjitty]

Something stinks about the police investigation here.

Nel can only work with the evidence and witnesses he is given.

But how on earth did they manage not to testify that everything on OPs phone had been mysteriously deleted?

In the context of unexplained GPRS activations?

Why did the defence not have to account for how that could have happened?

 

[mrjitty]

“In hindsight perhaps we should have gone on the offensive but at the end of the day Gerrie Nel had to weigh up one evil against another – and the fact is Hilton Botha could have sunk the state’s case,” one source said.

A second source close to the National Prosecuting Authority said that because it wasn’t clear what had been deleted from Oscar’s cellphone, it would have been difficult to charge Carl Pistorius.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Absurd!

That means if you managed to destroy some evidence - you can't be charged because the state can't prove what you destroyed!

for example - in his testimony OP maintained he had a chat convo about cars

So why not ask him where is the exhibit of the chats?

 

[mrjitty]

Masipa must be thick as 2 short planks.

She places so much weight on call times.

So where are the exhibits of OPs chats that he led in his EIC?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Masipa must be thick as 2 short planks.

She places so much weight on call times.

So where are the exhibits of OPs chats that he led in his EIC?

If you're referring to the Binge message exchange and the data hadn't been completely wiped as the EWN report says, the messages will have been on his phone (I certainly hope so). The police have a copy of all the physical and logical data from the phone (but not the phone itself - I believe it was given to the defence).

 

[WilliamMunter]

Can someone explain that to me in plain English please, because I can't for the life of me work out what/how/why this deal was struck .. what was the benefit to the PT that they agreed to go along with this deal? I'm not really understanding the reasons.

The way I see it:

In order to have the evidence from Reeva's phone and the 2 iPads admitted into evidence, the defence team could have asked for proof of the "chain of evidence" ie testimony from the officers involved in seizing the devices. This, I suspect, would have involved Botha. The prosecution team were very keen to keep him off the stand after his performance at the bail hearing. The defence agreed not to insist on the proof of chain of evidence (ie insisting Botha take the stand) on the condition that no charges be brought against Carl Pistorius.

IMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

"Behind the Door" has hit the shelves.

Mia Mould @MiaMould1 · 9h 9 hours ago

@barrybateman @MandyWiener

#BehindTheDoor Got my copy an hour ago.Can't put it down.Thanx for this brilliant journey!


Mia Mould @MiaMould1 · 7h 7 hours ago

#BehindTheDoor @barrybateman Yip,it doesn't get better than this! Objective, unbiased & captivating R250 well spent

 

[Interested Bystander]

“In hindsight perhaps we should have gone on the offensive but at the end of the day Gerrie Nel had to weigh up one evil against another – and the fact is Hilton Botha could have sunk the state’s case,” one source said.

A second source close to the National Prosecuting Authority said that because it wasn’t clear what had been deleted from Oscar’s cellphone, it would have been difficult to charge Carl Pistorius.

http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Would this have mattered? The fact is material was deleted from a piece of evidence illegally removed from the crime scene.

The second source sounds like a cop out to me. I don't think it should matter what was or wasn't on it, CP removed evidence from the scene of the crime - that has to be illegal. Anyone in the PT with two brain cells must have known that there was something of note for OP not to want it made public after he had killed RS but they let it go. I am saddened that RS has not received justice and some of it seems to have been due to the legal teams as well as the judge. If this was a show case, I cannot imagine at what level the law normally functions in SA. There must be many, many miscarriages of justice.

:gaah::tantrum::banghead:

 

[Mr Fossil]

"Behind the Door" has hit the shelves.

Mia Mould @MiaMould1 · 9h 9 hours ago

@barrybateman @MandyWiener

#BehindTheDoor Got my copy an hour ago.Can't put it down.Thanx for this brilliant journey!


Mia Mould @MiaMould1 · 7h 7 hours ago

#BehindTheDoor @barrybateman Yip,it doesn't get better than this! Objective, unbiased & captivating R250 well spent

Looks like it's not available in the UK until 9 Oct.

 

[soozieqtips]

Absurd!

That means if you managed to destroy some evidence - you can't be charged because the state can't prove what you destroyed!

for example - in his testimony OP maintained he had a chat convo about cars

So why not ask him where is the exhibit of the chats?

BIB - so all you need to do is willfully destroy evidence, and you're home and dry. I don't even know why I'm surprised at this. We've seen the lengths the OP clan will go to in order to protect each other, but Reeva was violently killed that night, and the fact that CP deliberately got rid of evidence (only reasonably possibly true explanation is that it was incriminating) shows just what kind of scum he is. I feel very very sorry for Reeva's mum and dad. Can you even begin to imagine what must be going through their minds?

They both knew the whole story was never given in court, and to discover that the killer's brother took it upon himself to get rid of evidence, and by doing so, deny Reeva the only thing left to her - justice - must be just yet another kick in the teeth for them. It makes Uncle Arnold's declarations of how he 'knew' what happened that night suddenly take on new meaning. I always thought that some of the family knew the truth, and didn't care about Reeva's family at all. All that mattered was protecting a killer, by whatever means.

 

[Cherwell]

The way I see it:

In order to have the evidence from Reeva's phone and the 2 iPads admitted into evidence, the defence team could have asked for proof of the "chain of evidence" ie testimony from the officers involved in seizing the devices. This, I suspect, would have involved Botha. The prosecution team were very keen to keep him off the stand after his performance at the bail hearing. The defence agreed not to insist on the proof of chain of evidence (ie insisting Botha take the stand) on the condition that no charges be brought against Carl Pistorius.

IMO

It couldn't have turned out much worse if Botha had testified, could it? :facepalm:

 

[AW2B]

It's beyond disgusting that someone has potentially aided someone in getting away with murder and will face no action, it really does make me wonder if the whole trial was little more than a theatre production following a script.

BBM

I agree..it makes me wonder too.

And Carice removed Reeva's purse from the crime scene. Did the prosecution do anything about this..not that I recall.

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM

I agree..it makes me wonder too.

And Carice removed Reeva's purse from the crime scene. Did the prosecution do anything about this..not that I recall.

BIB - wasn't it Amy who removed the bag? I'm sure Carice also took something. Maybe it was the phone that she later gave to CP. Just speculation, but it makes me laugh thinking how indignant OP was about police tampering. Hello Pot. Meet Kettle!

 

[JudgeJudi]

"In a statement on Wednesday night, the Pistorius family reacted in advance to the EWN article".

http://gulftoday.ae/portal/f21778e1-a54c-4b72-8a4c-fb01d097982f.aspx

Right. So does this means the family tentacles reach into the press as well? Nothing but nothing would surprise me any more. It beggars belief.

June and Barry must just be reeling with all this now. And there's no way they can escape all these revelations short of not buying papers, not listening to the radio, not watching TV, not getting online and not talking to anybody. My heart goes out to them.

 

[sleuth-d-]

BIB - wasn't it Amy who removed the bag? I'm sure Carice also took something. Maybe it was the phone that she later gave to CP. Just speculation, but it makes me laugh thinking how indignant OP was about police tampering. Hello Pot. Meet Kettle!

i thought so too. good word, indignant.

the contempt which seeps out of the truly arrogant. lying, but not at all fearful of the consequences...
in the light of carl's phone tampering, the figurehead uncle's press conference in the courtroom even before sentencing is right up there, imo.

their behaviour - not even skilfully hidden - gives a huge finger to their own country's justice system, again moo.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It couldn't have turned out much worse if Botha had testified, could it? :facepalm:

I was going to say no, but we haven’t heard the sentence yet, and whatever he gets could be suspended.

I don’t blame Nel for what’s happened in this trial. With the benefit of hindsight, things could have been done differently and better, but who in their wildest imagination would have dreamt the way things have ended up. It is a travesty of justice in every sense. I do believe in karma however and this won’t be the end of what happens to the Pistorius family. They’re an accident waiting to happen, and happen it will.