awaiting sentencing phase

[Mr Fossil]

Thanks for the response!

So it seems possible there was no WhatsApp exhibit to support OPs story.

Stranger and stranger

If everything was deleted, then it's possible. We didn't get to see any data from OP's phones during the trial. All WhatsApp messages were from Reeva's phone.

 

[jay-jay]

Originally Posted by WilliamMunter View Post
The way I see it:

In order to have the evidence from Reeva's phone and the 2 iPads admitted into evidence, the defence team could have asked for proof of the "chain of evidence" ie testimony from the officers involved in seizing the devices. This, I suspect, would have involved Botha. The prosecution team were very keen to keep him off the stand after his performance at the bail hearing. The defence agreed not to insist on the proof of chain of evidence (ie insisting Botha take the stand) on the condition that no charges be brought against Carl Pistorius.

IMO

It couldn't have turned out much worse if Botha had testified, could it? :facepalm:

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking .. doesn't sound like a very good deal to me .. I've now lost faith in the PT as well! The justice system in SA sounds rotten all round, to me.

Anyway, thanks for explaining, WM .. makes a lot more sense to me now (not that it makes sense, but I do see what's happened now)

 

[jay-jay]

There was a link but it no longer worked. I tried it a couple of times but no luck.

They've probably had all the reports to this erased off the internet .. the New York Post one had probably slipped through the net. It will be interesting to check that link in a few weeks time to see if it is still there .. no doubt there are people from the OP support team reading this board and will pick up on it and get it scrubbed. Meanwhile, I've taken a screenshot of that whole page, just in case it vanishes.

 

[jay-jay]

ETA: But in true sleuthing fashion, I've found this (a very useful site for web pages that are pulled or changed):

http://web.archive.org/web/20130218...Suid-Afrika/Nuus/So-ontvou-die-drama-20130216

~rsbm~

Wow, those archives are a brilliant find!

 

[Mr Fossil]

~rsbm~

Wow, those archives are a brilliant find!

I then use Chrome to save the page so that I have an offline version. Just in case.

 

[soozieqtips]

I wonder if any of the deleted messages said something like "I shot her in a rage" or something equally damning. Still curious about all the messages received after the killing. Who else was complicit in this? Did Masipa know that CP had tampered with evidence... and if so, did she care? Or did she think that phone data was 'fickle' and that deleting data didn't prove intent to delete data??

The losers in this are the very people who waited 18 months for justice. Also, I don't believe in Karma. I've known some very bad people who were rotten to the core until they died. Some people just waltz through life, destroying everything in their wake, and are never held to account. OP seems to have been doing this for years, helped of course, by his 'loving' family.

 

[jay-jay]

I wonder if any of the deleted messages said something like "I shot her in a rage" or something equally damning. Still curious about all the messages received after the killing. Who else was complicit in this? Did Masipa know that CP had tampered with evidence... and if so, did she care? Or did she think that phone data was 'fickle' and that deleting data didn't prove intent to delete data??

The losers in this are the very people who waited 18 months for justice. Also, I don't believe in Karma. I've known some very bad people who were rotten to the core until they died. Some people just waltz through life, destroying everything in their wake, and are never held to account. OP seems to have been doing this for years, helped of course, by his 'loving' family.

:goodpost:

I agree with you about karma .. I would like to believe that there is such a thing, but sadly I really don't think there is as there are plenty of people who just carry on throughout life in the way that you describe. Proper justice needs to be served, and we can't just rely on karma to give OP his just deserts. In any case, it's as much about protecting other people from him in the future as it is about punishing him for what he did .. else there's going to be another person ending up dead at some point, purely because OP does not know how to control his temper and knows anyway that he has the privilage of getting off scot free for anything that he does do.

 

[Mr Fossil]

I wonder if any of the deleted messages said something like "I shot her in a rage" or something equally damning. Still curious about all the messages received after the killing. Who else was complicit in this? Did Masipa know that CP had tampered with evidence... and if so, did she care? Or did she think that phone data was 'fickle' and that deleting data didn't prove intent to delete data??

The losers in this are the very people who waited 18 months for justice. Also, I don't believe in Karma. I've known some very bad people who were rotten to the core until they died. Some people just waltz through life, destroying everything in their wake, and are never held to account. OP seems to have been doing this for years, helped of course, by his 'loving' family.

The only messages we know about after Reeva has been shot are the 3 SMS text messages received around 05:50 and 06:45. We know about these from the phone records. I'm not sure how anyone can know if there were also any WhatsApp messages sent or received in this period if they have been deleted.

 

[mrjitty]

The only messages we know about after Reeva has been shot are the 3 SMS text messages received around 05:50 and 06:45. We know about these from the phone records. I'm not sure how anyone can know if there were also any WhatsApp messages sent or received in this period if they have been deleted.

I started to look up whether messages are saved on the WhatsApp servers - its not p2p

My guess is not.

But maybe there server might still have a log of the routing?

 

[Estelle]

Peculiar predicament of white South Africans

"Then I drove to Johannesburg, and as I got closer to the city, so the heat seemed to rise. The airwaves were full of angry voices. Around dinner tables, people expressed a fury about Pistorius that surprised me.

Smart people usually good at distinguishing what they know from what they don’t were amazingly certain about what had happened between Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp that night. People who had not spent as much as an hour of their lives studying criminal law spoke with thunderous authority about the impending verdict.

It seemed to me that a virus was going about. From the cross-section of SA I’d experienced since returning home, it was pretty clear that the virus was more virulent among the middle classes than among the poor, that it was spreading in the cities more than in the towns, and that the infected were disproportionately white."

http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2014/10/03/peculiar-predicament-of-white-south-africans

 

[mister happy]

10 days 'till sentencing. Wonder what sort of community service Masipa will assign to Pistorius?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Article by Barry Bateman

An independent forensic investigator said the police's failure to identify OP’s call to a Jenna on the eve of the shooting was a significant oversight. OP was on his phone to her when he arrived home but this was not picked up by detectives working on the case.

Forensic expert Danny Myburgh says police should have obtained a statement from Jenna. "I would say that's quite important and it's important to me because of what happened within the 24 hour cycle of the [shooting] taking place."

It is still not clear how police failed to make the connection. Eyewitness News questioned authorities on this discovery after the state closed its case.

Myburgh says the notable absence of any evidence related to OP’s phone during his trial may have undermined the case against him.

The entire call history and WhatsApp record on OP’s personal handset was deleted, allegedly by Carl.

The state referred to thousands of messages extracted from Reeva’s phone that showed communication between the couple.

Myburgh says in such instances, the two devices would be compared.

"You will find information on A and you will verify with B. In this case, they didn't do that at all."

http://news.iafrica.com/sa/963743.html

 

[Mr Fossil]

http://www.702.co.za/listen-live now. Barry Bateman and Mandy Wiener being interviewed.

 

[WilliamMunter]

It couldn't have turned out much worse if Botha had testified, could it? :facepalm:

I completely agree. It appears that Judge Masipa did not take into account much, if any at all, of the PT's evidence*. All that forensic work was disregarded.

So yes, in hindsight, they should have put Botha on the stand as it wouldn't have changed the verdict. At least then they could have got Pistorius's brother and sister to explain what what the devil they were up to.

* just tying to think what PT evidence she did use to come to her verdict; Dr. Stipp's description of Pistorius being distressed at the bottom of the stairs. Anything else?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Barry Bateman says the cell phone data submitted to the court is available to the public ... where do I get it, is what I want to know. Am following this up now ...

 

[WilliamMunter]

Barry thinks that it is possible Reeva did flush the toilet, she was then shot, fell dead onto the toilet seat and the last few dribbles of the flushing water caused the striped effect of the blood in the toilet bowl.

The toilet wasn't flushed post shooting as wood splinters are visible on the bowl.

Neither PT or DT wanted to run with this evidence as it would not support either of their cases.

 

[JudgeJudi]

10 days 'till sentencing. Wonder what sort of community service Masipa will assign to Pistorius?

The mitigation and aggravation phase occurs before the sentence is handed down. The state is expected to have more witnesses than the defence. One week has been allocated for the entire process.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Barry thinks that it is possible Reeva did flush the toilet, she was then shot, fell dead onto the toilet seat and the last few dribbles of the flushing water caused the striped effect of the blood in the toilet bowl.

The toilet wasn't flushed post shooting as wood splinters are visible on the bowl.

Neither PT or DT wanted to run with this evidence as it would not support either of their cases.

Would an intruder flush the loo? OP must have heard it flush so I would have thought it support's the prosecution case. At the very least, OP should have checked if it was Reeva in the loo. Perhaps it flushes silently.

 

[WilliamMunter]

Barry Bateman says the cell phone data submitted to the court is available to the public ... where do I get it, is what I want to know. Am following this up now ...

Might be worth contacting Barry Bateman. He seems very open to dialog.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm looking forward to seeing who the DT call as mitigation witnesses other than family. Possibly his personal trainer Jannie Brooks, his horse trainer Mike Azzi, and ... oh, of course, his pastor who visits him at home. It will be more than interesting to see what friends, if any, are prepared to come forward. Jenna? Any suggestions?