AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #2

[smart blonde]

I don't think EJ wanted the Smith's to have him either.

This sounds way too much between Casey Anthony and Melinda D.

I agree.

I think she 'played' the Smith's, much in the same way Casey 'played' her parents.

The only one I feel sorry for at this point, (besides Gabriel, of course), is Logan, the baby's father.

 

[LadyBug99]

I just think that blame should be on mother and father of this child. I agree that people may have dropped the ball when it came to reporting some of the mother's actions but I don't feel they should be blamed. IMO

 

[smart blonde]

Arizona, Florida and Texas are all death penalty states. None of them are afraid to use the needle.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe her, for a few reasons. My number one reason, she was a foster child that was bounced around a lot. She seems reasonably intelligent and articulate. I believe she's damaged in that she was unable to form a normal attachment to her baby but recognised that other people can and do. I think she wanted that for her son. I think in her heart she believes she is protecting her child from his father. She's probably right in her opinion of him.

In my personal experience, foster children are not as emotionally mature as their counterparts. I only fostered long term teenage girls. I only had 8 girls in 9 years. Two of those girls later went on to give up their own children. One being my own adopted son.

i so hope I am right.

 

[Kamille]

Yes..she has been threatning the baby since he was three weeks old

the father would come home and baby Gabe would be in dirty diapers, unmoved for ? 5 hours they say

Neighbors had heard her and thought she was hitting/beating the baby

she has called Gabe "it" and worse....and made threats his whole short life

she had destroyed things in the apartment...flew into a rage...Logan filed a police report then...

I personally have zero sympathy for any of them...this nasty rageful woman should have had Gabe removed far away from her long ago

Considering that LM's father is in law enforcement, it appears as though they were trying to do just that through legal channels. CPS was already involved and there were scheduled custody hearings before any of this took place. Personally I think it was their attempt to take Gabriel away from EJ that set both her and TPS off and this whole thing happened.

 

[BeanE]

Yes..she has been threatning the baby since he was three weeks old

Could I have a link for that please, LM? Not doubting you. Just trying to gather info.

Thanks!

 

[LadyBug99]

I believe her, for a few reasons. My number one reason, she was a foster child that was bounced around a lot. She seems reasonably intelligent and articulate. I believe she's damaged in that she was unable to form a normal attachment to her baby but recognised that other people can and do. I think she wanted that for her son. I think in her heart she believes she is protecting her child from his father. She's probably right in her opinion of him.

In my personal experience, foster children are not as emotionally mature as their counterparts. I only fostered long term teenage girls. I only had 8 girls in 9 years. Two of those girls later went on to give up their own children. One being my own adopted son.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you. BUT she could have done the right thing and put her son up for adoption LEGALLY! There is no excuse for her actions at this point. It never had to go this far...If she wanted a better life for her child that is one thing, but to put everyone that loved this child through this, is horrible. She seems to care about no one but herself.

 

[LogicalMinds]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH

yes...the DCF (they call it that in AZ too I guess) was called by the father cause this violent woman left the baby alone etc

and he had her arrested ...but she still had the baby??

let me get out my puke pan

watch this and weep

http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

 

[BeanE]

Another interview with Logan and LE! (video)

This one's from The Early Show. Interviewer is Maggie Roderiguez. (Different from Today Show interview with Meredith V.)

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6066932n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0

ETA: Omg this has me crying. Poor Logan Poor Gabriel

Wow! VERY strong statement from LE officer that Logan is a good, loving father, the best person for Gabriel to be with.

 

[NewMommy09]

I THINK I remember reading on the other thread that she did not have any money on her when they arrested her in Florida. So I don't know.

IF there is a mystery couple that has this baby I personally think they are holding this child until some reward money is put out to return him. Some are saying that they may not know that this child has at least a father that cares about him and that he is the subject of a custody battle. I think thats BS, it is on the national news, and I am sure the local news. How could they NOT know unless they live under a rock. Shoot when Baby Abby went missing everyone in our area knew about it. When Shawn Hornbeck and later Ben Owenby went missing everyone knew about it in the nation. I know this case is not getting AS much attention but I feel it is still getting enough that these people would know that this child belongs some where other than with them. The whole reward money thing would also be a key if this family gave this girl any money. They may feel like they paid for the "goods" that they have, why would they return it for free? The sad thing, I actually know people with this mentality!

ITA. And some other thoughts on this:
IF EJ gave Gabe to "a couple she met at the park", if said people cared anything about what was best for Gabe, they would have taken him to the police before EJ was ever even arrested in Florida.
IMO, either these people don't exist, or they have already harmed/abused/killed little Gabe.
No WAY would they be able to get away with suddenly having an 8 month old child in their home, and nobody notices???

I find it VERY telling that police aren't asking anyone to come forward who has noticed a friend/family/neighbor/coworker etc that suddenly has an 8 month old infant. LE doesn't believe EJ's story at all, IMO.

ETA: If a woman approached me in a park and asked me to take her infant and give it a good home. I would gladly take the child....DIRECTLY to the nearest police station. If police allowed me to keep the child while they investigated, I would gladly do so. But no way would I just walk away with a baby, and assume he was just mine to keep now.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm not saying that I don't agree with you. BUT she could have done the right thing and put her son up for adoption LEGALLY! There is no excuse for her actions at this point. It never had to go this far...If she wanted a better life for her child that is one thing, but to put everyone that loved this child through this, is horrible. She seems to care about no one but herself.

She couldn't put him up for adoption legally, his biological father now claims to want him.

 

[SleuthyMama]

ITA. And some other thoughts on this:
IF EJ gave Gabe to "a couple she met at the park", if said people cared anything about what was best for Gabe, they would have taken him to the police before EJ was ever even arrested in Florida.
IMO, either these people don't exist, or they have already harmed/abused/killed little Gabe.
No WAY would they be able to get away with suddenly having an 8 month old child in their home, and nobody notices???

I find it VERY telling that police aren't asking anyone to come forward who has noticed a friend/family/neighbor/coworker etc that suddenly has an 8 month old infant. LE doesn't believe EJ's story at all, IMO.

BBM. You are so right NM09. That really didn't hit me until you put it out there. If LE thought Gabe was with this so called couple wouldn't they be asking people to be on the lookout for people who all of a sudden just popped up with a baby? They aren't doing that.

But at the same time, they are still saying the feel Gabe is alive. Soooooo what does that tell you??

Someone please answer that question. Cause I'm not sure what it tells me LOL.

On one hand I still have a bad feeling that EJ murdered Gabe. But why would LE still be pushing the theory Gabe is alive then??

 

[eleven]

I believe her, for a few reasons. My number one reason, she was a foster child that was bounced around a lot. She seems reasonably intelligent and articulate. I believe she's damaged in that she was unable to form a normal attachment to her baby but recognised that other people can and do. I think she wanted that for her son. I think in her heart she believes she is protecting her child from his father. She's probably right in her opinion of him.

.

Snipped by me...

She threatened her poor baby his entire short life. She went into violent rages. She neglected her baby and wouldn't even address his most basic needs, such as regular diaper changes. It is obvious she doesn't give a crap about him. You are giving her far more credit as a mother than she deserves, IMO. It appears that this child had a horrific life with his "mother", and I use that term loosely.

Her actions as a mother have no bearing on her being intelligent and articulate. Some of the most evil people in history have been intelligent and articulate. It didn't make them any less evil.

 

[passionflower]

EJ has allot of rage (apartment tore up) and that reminds me of KC.
Gives me the impression that she has narcisstic personality like KC.
No bonding with baby like KC.
Wanted to adopt baby out from the beginning like KC.
OMGosh, this is like KC all over again........IMO

 

[BeanE]

BBM. You are so right NM09. That really didn't hit me until you put it out there. If LE thought Gabe was with this so called couple wouldn't they be asking people to be on the lookout for people who all of a sudden just popped up with a baby? They aren't doing that.

But at the same time, they are still saying the feel Gabe is alive. Soooooo what does that tell you??

Someone please answer that question. Cause I'm not sure what it tells me LOL.

On one hand I still have a bad feeling that EJ murdered Gabe. But why would LE still be pushing the theory Gabe is alive then??

BBM

I haven't heard them say that. I've heard them say they are optimistic that Gabriel is alive, and that they have some indications that Gabriel is alive. That's very different to me.

I was listening to both LE interviews from this morning, hoping to hear them say they think or feel he's alive. I didn't hear it. I would very much like to hear them say that, because I'm awfully depressed about Gabriel right now.

:cow:

 

[LadyBug99]

She couldn't put him up for adoption legally, his biological father now claims to want him.

IIRC didn't the father say that he was only told about the adoption after Gabriel went missing? Wasn't it the "crazy" couple that told him to sign the papers and he would see his son again? Was the topic of adoption every discussed prior to Gabriel's disappearance?

 

[jamiect]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH

yes...the DCF (they call it that in AZ too I guess) was called by the father cause this violent woman left the baby alone etc

and he had her arrested ...but she still had the baby??

let me get out my puke pan

watch this and weep

http://www.kpho.com/video/22155911/index.html

No weeping here...but I would like to slap her. I do find it odd that her attorney would allow an interview.:waitasec:

 

[momtective]

Nothing will convince me that a couple just walked up to Elizabeth at that park!
The meeting was arraigned in advance, there was probably an attorney involved, she met the couple, hung out with them for 3 days at the hotel/s, signed the papers then left Gabriel with them. jmo

If an attorney was involved there are at least 4 people who know where this baby is, if the Smith's were involved there are at least 6 people. Someone needs to step up to the plate and get that little boy home to his Daddy!

 

[Searchfortruth]

BBM. You are so right NM09. That really didn't hit me until you put it out there. If LE thought Gabe was with this so called couple wouldn't they be asking people to be on the lookout for people who all of a sudden just popped up with a baby? They aren't doing that.

But at the same time, they are still saying the feel Gabe is alive. Soooooo what does that tell you??

Someone please answer that question. Cause I'm not sure what it tells me LOL.

On one hand I still have a bad feeling that EJ murdered Gabe. But why would LE still be pushing the theory Gabe is alive then??

I believe it is to get her back into talks with Detectives. I believe the composite drawing was offered for that same reason. Maybe Tempe Detectives are in Miami as we speak and want their own go around with Elizabeth. If she had stopped talking an offer of "we believe you and want to get a drawing of these people out there" might get her back in the game.

 

[NewMommy09]

BBM. You are so right NM09. That really didn't hit me until you put it out there. If LE thought Gabe was with this so called couple wouldn't they be asking people to be on the lookout for people who all of a sudden just popped up with a baby? They aren't doing that.

But at the same time, they are still saying the feel Gabe is alive. Soooooo what does that tell you??

Someone please answer that question. Cause I'm not sure what it tells me LOL.

On one hand I still have a bad feeling that EJ murdered Gabe. But why would LE still be pushing the theory Gabe is alive then??

I'm stuck in that same cycle of thinking too.
Perhaps police are just hoping Gabe is alive somewhere and they are afraid if they tell the public they believe he's dead that people will stop looking for him? I don't really know.

My gut at this point is telling me that Gabe is probably not alive. There are 3 main scenarios.
A. EJ did hand him off, and those people harmed him. I mean, good loving people that wanted the best for him would have come out by now, IMO.
B. EJ killed Gabe in a fit of rage, or to "get back" at Logan.
C. Gabe died because his needs weren't being met. Which is also a likely scenario considering Logan's claims that he would leave for work and she would not do ANYTHING for the baby while he was gone.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong though and little baby Gabe is found soon.
My heart has broken over this sweetheart a million times. Even if he's with loving people, he has got to be beyond scared, confused, and missing the people he knows. My son is the same age and he would be VERY upset being left with people he doesn't know for ANY amount of time.