AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #2

[pghbrandi]

In that adoptionscams link, it says often the con will hide under the cloak of legitimate professionals. Well, what if the legitimate professional is the con???

 

[passionflower]

Does EJ have siblings?
Only her grandpa has been mentioned and on TV.
Did her parents die at the same time?

 

[CCup]

How many days has Gabriel been missing?

 

[Kamille]

I also have to add my thoughts on why EJ is staying so silent. I am sure her time spent with the smith's was just them brainwashing her and who else knows what. They probably scared her sh**less!(lol didn't mean the pun!)
This case just has me fuming!

Perhaps now that she's back in AZ and the gravity of the situation has hit her, she's not so silent any more. Maybe that's why the Smiths are now POI. If EJ has admitted to LE that they set it up but she has absolutely no idea who she gave Gabriel to or where they took him then there is still a problem. EJ can't lead them to Gabriel and the Smiths will most likely just call her a liar.

 

[iluvmua]

How many days has Gabriel been missing?

12 days

 

[SusanB]

Can anyone put together a time line? It would be appreciated. :blushing:

 

[pghbrandi]

Just throwing this out, may be way off, but what if her business is just really a trafficking front? I've seen places that are just a front for something else like gambling(before it was legal here) and other stuff as well.

 

[LFlorida]

In SA there are a couple of very unethical adoption agencys,,I am wondering if LE are questioning them? Also in TX (new law) if a mom makes an adoption plan and she is not married and birthdads name is not on the birth certificate then they do not need to get birthdad to consent to the adoption.
This little guy might have been placed internationally.
Now my question is why did she go on to Florida?
I know that if an agency is licensed in florida and also in another state, then birthmoms consent can be run through Florida.
Adoption laws are very very different in every state and there isn't much regulation. If she did place the baby in TX and sign consent, then it maybe a legal placement.


Lynne
www.adoptionscams.net

Florida started the Putative Father Registry because there were too many cases where birth mothers tried to go back on the private adoptions by getting the birth father to say he never consented to the adoption.

Florida's current adoption laws seem to be tougher than other states, at least on the surface. I'm not a fan of private adoptions, btw. It's become a whole industry and it turns on the almighty dollar, imo.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I missed the first NG show. I think I will watch the repeat.

 

[LogicalMinds]

I don't think the Smiths know where Gabriel is. I think they may have helped Elizabeth to make contacts with other desperate parents. I believe they took everything Elizabeth said as truth and believed her BF was abusing them.
The Smiths knew they would never be able to adopt little Gabriel, but wanted him safe.
I believe they helped Elizabeth and know more than they are telling. But if it was a closed adoption, the new couple would have been very careful and not given any info.
But, then again the Smiths seem to have the inserting your foot in your mouth disease! So I could be totally wrong!

They are beyond desperate...did you see the "surrogate" forum where a teen girl who never had a baby wants to be a surrogate for the low low price of only $2000?? Other "want to be moms" looking for a surrogate had the decency to discourage this young gal, told her to wait till older, had her own kids, wait and also told her her price was too low...BUT Tammi was all excited..."call me"...we are interested...gave her info/phone

"Closed adoption"?? what?? Let's call it like it is ...black market adoption at best...selling a child..child brokerage...human trafficing

This is NOT the way legal adoptions work...why glorify this with the words "closed adoption"???

I don't think they cared about Gabriel's safety....they don't even say his name...he is an object to them...JMO Tammi is a "collector"...she reminds me of another horrible mom...Kathy Bush from s. Florida the mom who had 200 unneeded operations for her charity poster child daughter, the Munchaesen's by Proxy weirdo who also grinned and primped at interviews

Not to mention that poor Gabriel was first let down by the state social workers...

look how many dead/missing/endangered kids have been left in homes with abusive/unfit parents....any more when we have a missing kid the state in question already has all their "statistics" and details cause they are already "known" to them

>>> Shaynia Davis Bio-Mom was investigated by state
>>> Shannon Dedrick was considered at "intermediate risk" by the state...and left there in a roach infested trailer...(hopefully Gabe will be a miracle like her..it is NO thanks to her birth mother that she is alive howver)
>>> Little Marc in NY ..older half brother was beaten by Corey who is suspected in Marc's disapperance...his "mother" seems more concerned about the abuser
>>>Sarah Foxwell's "family" was well known to state workers and courts it seems

and on and on....state social services and anger management were involved with Elizabeth...they insanely let her keep Gabe after she trashed the apt in July

Oh..and this is NOT the first time Gabe went missing....police had to search for him once before...Elizabeth Thing had him stashed at a friends apt

I call her "Thing" cause that is what she called Gabe

I like to post proof and links so here it is>>>


http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149100

 

[LFlorida]

After reading and watching everything on this case, you are probably right. They are nutty. Beyond nutty. It's almost like they live in their own reality. Freaky.

I wonder if they didn't just insert themselves into the case. [Sorry - too much time in Haleigh threads.]

Who is this Yoni/Yanni/whatever from FoxNews?

 

[mum]

In that adoptionscams link, it says often the con will hide under the cloak of legitimate professionals. Well, what if the legitimate professional is the con???

Not unheard of.

 

[LogicalMinds]

at this point I fear the worse, and it PMO that baby Gabe was not taken from EJ when she first trashed the apartment and started makeing theats agianst him when he was 3 weeks old.

Does anybody know how EJ's parents died? drug overdose?

I am amazed and angry that she was allowed to keep Gabe

Not to mention this was not the first time Gabe "went missing"..LE searched locally for him once before and she had him stashed at a friend's apartment

she should have been arrested for that waste of taxpayer money and LE time and effort ...and Baby Gabe should have been removed from her back then

 

[passionflower]

On our forensic astrology thread it seems like a kidnapping/sold ...........
now will someone panic?
Let's pray Gabriel is turned in and reunited with his dad.

 

[time]

Perhaps now that she's back in AZ and the gravity of the situation has hit her, she's not so silent any more. Maybe that's why the Smiths are now POI. If EJ has admitted to LE that they set it up but she has absolutely no idea who she gave Gabriel to or where they took him then there is still a problem. EJ can't lead them to Gabriel and the Smiths will most likely just call her a liar.

Well, your version is much simpler than mine and probably more plausible, but I think we are thinking along the same lines.

I am hoping that LE has concrete proof that the Smiths are involved, emails, cell phone records, etc. They are making themselves look worse then ever with their denials. They think that saying that they offered to do a LDT makes them look innocent. I just don't think LE would make such a bold statement of naming them as POI if they didn't have all their ducks in a row.

It's almost like the Smith's think they are smarter than everyone else? I don't know, maybe it's because of what they DO know that we and LE don't. I hope this isn't some really carefully planned thing where they have anticipated all the legalities and figure they can't be touched no matter. It does make me wonder now if Elizabeth did send the message she killed him and they knew or encouraged it. It would help deflect attention to them doing something wrong and might have (but didn't) dissuade the father. Maybe they have told Elizabeth they will tell where Gabe is at if she is charged with anything major (like murder) - who knows. I think they are slipping up on TV and with their inconsistencies, but maybe whatever is in their plan - that doesn't matter. Also, saying they will take a lie detector test means nothing because they have had time to prepare for that now and I'm convinced people can train themselves to fake results if they are already good liars. Or they could find a way to make the results too screwed up to use (although there are new MRI techniques that MIGHT be better).

I DO think investigators must have strong clues to their involvement and if they think Gabe is alive, then they must think he was handed off. I just hope the Smith's weren't 'good enough' to hand them clues that will be worthless in finding Gabe and make it impossible to accuse the mom of possible murder (which might be all that would make her talk). I get the feeling as someone else did that the Smith's are sending her coded messages in their conversations - but those are based on some pre agreed to plan.

 

[Ransom]

I wonder if they didn't just insert themselves into the case. [Sorry - too much time in Haleigh threads.]

Who is this Yoni/Yanni/whatever from FoxNews?

NG showed this video tape.
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/vid_903.shtml

We're working the San Antonio connection to the nationwide search for a missing 8-month-old boy.
Our Yami Virgin talked to a local man who may be the last person to have contact with the boy's mother before she hopped a bus and left San Antonio.


Local station KABB, Fox

 

[time]

Just throwing this out, may be way off, but what if her business is just really a trafficking front? I've seen places that are just a front for something else like gambling(before it was legal here) and other stuff as well.

I used to have a running joke with a friend about this every time we would see a business that couldn't possibly be making enough money to pay the rent - unfortunately, colon cleansing might be a money maker right now? However, that doesn't mean she isn't using it and her helpful, healing persona to engage in baby finding and placement. I do have a difficult time thinking she is bringing in big enough bucks to support the lifestyle they seem to be living (although as I said earlier, they may just look like they have money or are in serious debt or have a lot of money that couldn't have been earned the old fashioned way).

 

[passionflower]

wonder if we will hear from some high price lawyer representing them tomorrow!

 

[DairyGirl]

I used to have a running joke with a friend about this every time we would see a business that couldn't possibly be making enough money to pay the rent - unfortunately, colon cleansing might be a money maker right now? However, that doesn't mean she isn't using it and her helpful, healing persona to engage in baby finding and placement. I do have a difficult time thinking she is bringing in big enough bucks to support the lifestyle they seem to be living (although as I said earlier, they may just look like they have money or are in serious debt or have a lot of money that couldn't have been earned the old fashioned way).

I think money may be a problem for them. I don't know how much money is in the colon cleansing business but for some reason they do not want to go through traditional adoption means, either it is too expensive or they fear they won't pass a home study. There are babies to adopt out of country if you have the money. They seemed to be doing everything on the cheap. If someone told me they wanted me to adopt their baby I would have had a lawyer involved, instead of just downloading some official looking documents off the internet as they seem to have done with the guardianship papers. And contacting the teen wannabe surrogate because the price is right.

 

[Kamille]

So if the Smiths have given some sorry tale about EJ and Gabriel being abused to some underground person who helps abused woman and they've arranged for Gabriel to go to Mexico with them for a while, would this person even know what is going on in this case? Would that news even filter down into Mexico? Could someone actually be down there waiting to hear from the Smiths about what to do next and when? I haven't seen anything that says that the FBI are working with Mexican LE.