AZ AZ - Grand Canyon, Coconino Co., WhtMale, around 18-22 years, "the Kolb Skeleton," Feb'77 OR Jun'33

  • #21
IMO June 1933 reflects the time the skeletal remains were spotted, and perhaps not the time Kolb took that photo. I reckon the remains were handed over to him by authorities for professional reasons, and perhaps he kept them because no one cared to track them or he forgot about them. It's possible that the rangers used Kolb to document the find, but that Kolb wasn't the finder.
 
  • #22
At the Unsolved Mysteries link ^^^^ at around minute 20 is the stuff on Kolb and items related to this case.

 
  • #23
IMO June 1933 reflects the time the skeletal remains were spotted, and perhaps not the time Kolb took that photo. I reckon the remains were handed over to him by authorities for professional reasons, and perhaps he kept them because no one cared to track them or he forgot about them. It's possible that the rangers used Kolb to document the find, but that Kolb wasn't the finder.
I haven't been able to discern the date the photo was taken, but I remember reading in some sources that the photo was taken in June. It's possible he discovered the remains prior to June 1933 and then returned in 1933 to photograph and retrieve them. 1977 is when they were discovered by others among his property after he died.
 
  • #24
Looks like this is one of the active cases at the Ramapo College of New Jersey Investigative Genetic Genealogy Center:

 
  • #25
Would this article from June 5, 1933, be referencing the same person? The location found and bullet hole area match up.

1754517001259.webp



Also, does anybody know which specific pictures taken by Kolb are associated with this man besides the one on the Doe Network profile? He seems to have been in the habit of doing this and I've found several photo shoots he did of skeletons in the Grand Canyon dating back to at least 1907.
 
  • #26
Interesting, in the article they state investigators determined the skeleton was not older than 1972 because they assumed it had been out in the elements. But Kolb protected the skeleton from the elements by keeping it indoors. Based on matching footwear, they determined the remains he was keeping were the same as the skeleton found in the 1930s.

So we still have an unidentified skeleton from the 1930s. I wonder if the bones are too weathered to extract DNA?
They should be able to extract DNA from teeth, if available. I mean, we have DNA from truly ancient samples. Would think it would just depend on funding for the necessary methods.

Edited: this one has DNA available. See:

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown.
Fingerprints: Not available
DNA: Available.
 
  • #27
Agreed with those saying this person is not a reported MP anywhere (unless he's the real Bobby Dunbar, which I'd strongly doubt). Ruess is definitely a good guess jmo, but the timing doesn't seem to fully line up. Would wonder if it was Gerald Clifford Bartlett if the pants were government issue, but it appears they weren't. Still, you kind of wonder, there's only an image of Gerald from when he was 12yo, and he'd be maybe 27 in 1931, 4yrs off from an initial estimate they gave for this decedent.
I know the reports are saying the pistol's cheap, and the clothes are cheap, but it's the Depression and the person's in the Grand Canyon. Up until the time he did himself in, it sounds like he was doing pretty well for himself, all things considered, even if he hitchhiked there, which was common in the era. A lot of people at this point are in Hoovervilles in rags. So why did this person end up in GC and do this? My guess (?) is that he had become recently unemployed.

Seeing that this person they found was really, really muscular, really defined "robust" muscles (think this is from the Unsolved Mysteries episode). So there isn't any fitness craze in this era, that's sort of unusual (arguably) for someone even 18yo in this timeframe, I would think. So...maybe an athlete, a very good one, maybe minor league baseball player recently let go, the minor leagues were devastated by the GD; seeing the Miami (AZ) Miners seem to have become defunct in 1930. The Mesa Jewels folded in 1929. OR maybe ranch hand/cowboy? We may not have all the clothing (Where's the jacket?), but it sounds like what he was wearing couldn't be excluded as clothing worn by a ranch hand, although I mean, no cowboy boots. Ranchers were hit especially hard in this era. ORcircus worker? Circuses were folding right, left and center in this timeframe. If he'd worked a circus, he might be in a role where he needed a lot of agility/strength. And with a circus, he likely had ridden plenty of trains and knew the lines that go into GC. There's the notorious "redlighting" of circus workers, where they'd be left behind at the station so the company didn't have to pay them. And evidently, there are "Showmen's Rest" burial areas in many cemeteries, these were blocks of plots for deceased circus workers, and a lot of the plots are unmarked or use nicknames because of the transient nature of the business.

His circumstances may be something of a mix between transient and local, someone not originally from AZ that ended up there and stayed there, maybe even prior to the GD. Shoshone Point is not that widely known, it's not marked, and it's pretty secluded. Also, where's his jacket? Unless he's out mid-day summer, he can't really be going too far without one. Even for a hike that might go into later in the day, he'd want a jacket. Suspecting this person knew GC. Maybe he was in a juvenile home not all that far away, there was a Mother Higgins School out in Tucson and a State Industrial School out in Fort Grant. Maybe he was originally from a wealthier family that lost everything in the GD, might himself be the son of a suicide. Also both Tuba City Indian Boarding School and Truxton Canyon Indian School would only be about two hours away, based on what I'm reading. What about someone from the "Little Mexico" community that formed on the South Rim during the 1920s and continued into the 1930s? They built a lot of the park's infrastructure. That area where Little Mexico was is a stone's throw from where the Doe was found. (People in Little Mexico would probably also have been concerned about GD "repatriation drives" where people were being deported back to Mexico.) He doesn't look in the sketch like he's Latino or Hispanic, but jmo, those sketches can be off. He looks more possibly central or eastern European jmo, & so also wondering if he emigrated to the US and had no family in US to report him.

BUT with all of this said, in 1931, the tourism to GC remained substantial. And that means this could be literally anyone. All we know about him, assuming he's not a reported MP, is that he's not a reported MP. And we know his clothing, height, age, gender, and this point on the muscles, probably his hair color, and little else. It's not much to go on, glad the case is with Ramapo.

Question. I'm seeing guns are prohibited in the GC unless he acquired special permission in this timeframe (who knows on practical enforcement of this then, though). Provided he didn't want to risk having the gun confiscated, where exactly did he have this firearm concealed? Did he just tuck it into his waistband? Did he know how to access the park to avoid a check point? Even if he did, I mean he wasn't walking around, I'm sure, with the weapon in his hand. What a truly bizarre case.
 
  • #28
Is there any news anywhere on hiw the research is going?
 
  • #29
unless he's the real Bobby Dunbar

Not sure if you meant this as a joke, but this made me LOL. :) My new, completely silly theory is that the real Bobby Dunbar is actually the BCJD. Sure, sure, the time frame doesn’t add up at all, but who can say, really? ;)
 
  • #30
Not sure if you meant this as a joke, but this made me LOL. :) My new, completely silly theory is that the real Bobby Dunbar is actually the BCJD. Sure, sure, the time frame doesn’t add up at all, but who can say, really? ;)
Totally agreed, the Bobby Dunbar point sounds pretty kooky, but I mean this Kolb skeleton case does not have a single reported MP that seems like a strong possibility. I mean not one, but it's jmo. They're all off on timing and age. Date for the photo's June 1933 and Ruess isn't missing till 1934, Halpern's in the Rocky Mountains in 1933 and unconfirmed reports of him traveling elsewhere following that. Plus, his ears look too wide to be the Doe, but jmo. Gerald Bartlett is beyond the age range and there's no "current" image for him (pic from when he was 12), and these were cheap khakis on the Doe, not military issue trousers, evidently. That leaves us with a pool of... millions of people who are male, 18-22yo, (maybe) blondish/brown hair, wear pretty generic clothing and aren't reported when they go missing. And have robust muscles. Bobby Dunbar was born in 1908, went missing 1912. I think the theory now is that he fell victim to alligators in the infested swamp/lake where he went missing, but there was a lot of speculation about abduction at the time because his hat was found a considerable distance from the shore. (And there were numerous kidnappings/child abductions in this era. Also, some of the reports related to his disappearance really do seem to support the abduction theory) Since nobody knows for certain what really happened to him, I'd still consider him an MP, and since the abduction theory was taken seriously enough for authorities to actually take another family's child away from the family because they thought in error that it was Bobby Dunbar...?? As a follow-up note, Bobby Dunbar's real father died in 1931. With all that in the mix, I can't help but think of this bizarre case with poor Bobby Dunbar as I'm viewing this case, which is equally bizarre. (But completely agreeing with you that the chances that's Bobby Dunbar are only slightly better than that he's BCJD)

Going with the idea that Kolb was involved in this coroner's jury, and that's why the remains were where they were. So suicide, and unless they come back with some shocking revelation that shows otherwise, I think it's a suicide, but jmo.

Also wondering if that pistol's too large to fit in a pants pocket. (?)
 
  • #31
this Kolb skeleton case does not have a single reported MP that seems like a strong possibility.

But that’s true for any number of cases; as you know, Charlie Wallace wasn’t in any public LE database, was widely assumed to be BCJD, and was only identified as a different (also unlisted) UID last year.

(I personally believe Bobby Dunbar was abducted, mostly because alligators don’t randomly attack people (they’re mostly active at dawn/dusk), but if BD had say, stumbled across a nest, thereby antagonizing the mother, it would not have been a silent attack.)

I suppose what I’m saying is you’re right: whoever the Kolb skeleton was, he could have been any one of millions of 18-22 year old young men, from anywhere, which doesn’t help narrow anything down. That said, it’s totally possible there’s a tiny report in a small town newspaper somewhere that holds a key we just need to find.

Ruess is definitely a good guess

I don’t think this is Everett Ruess because a) he went missing in November 1934, and b) his family has contributed DNA, so he can be identified if his bones are ever found.

In any case, maybe: Nick Paynovich, student at Northern Arizona University in 1931:

CONTENTdm (Free access). I’m not able to research further atm to see whatever became of him, but maybe that’s a thin thread to pull on.

I’m hoping the Ramapo College genetic genealogy group will come up with some answers soon.
 
  • #32
But that’s true for any number of cases; as you know, Charlie Wallace wasn’t in any public LE database, was widely assumed to be BCJD, and was only identified as a different (also unlisted) UID last year.

(I personally believe Bobby Dunbar was abducted, mostly because alligators don’t randomly attack people (they’re mostly active at dawn/dusk), but if BD had say, stumbled across a nest, thereby antagonizing the mother, it would not have been a silent attack.)

I suppose what I’m saying is you’re right: whoever the Kolb skeleton was, he could have been any one of millions of 18-22 year old young men, from anywhere, which doesn’t help narrow anything down. That said, it’s totally possible there’s a tiny report in a small town newspaper somewhere that holds a key we just need to find.



I don’t think this is Everett Ruess because a) he went missing in November 1934, and b) his family has contributed DNA, so he can be identified if his bones are ever found.

In any case, maybe: Nick Paynovich, student at Northern Arizona University in 1931:

CONTENTdm (Free access). I’m not able to research further atm to see whatever became of him, but maybe that’s a thin thread to pull on.

I’m hoping the Ramapo College genetic genealogy group will come up with some answers soon.
Reading up on alligators right now and I see just what you mean. If Bobby really was abducted, I mean... it adds another layer of mysterious tragedy to an already mortifying situation. A lot of Redditors are saying it's alligators for sure & couldn't be anything else. But looking at the articles I have now, totally agreeing with you, this alligator scenario doesn't look as likely as some seem to think. And I remember seeing something about Bobby being spotted near a railroad trestle, too, right in that critical period when he vanished.

That Paynovich link definitely interesting, but I'm seeing him evidently on some trip with the Blue Eagles in a 1934 issue, lemme get link here. Is that the same Nick Paynovich in this 1934 article, though? Headline mentions alumni, I think that's the same Nick, but I mean maybe it's one of Nick's relatives?? I don't think so, though.
("Blue Eagles Visit Flag Alumni")

Totally agreed the small newspapers, but I mean, sometimes, those people in the stories are found and it might never result in a follow-up story, I would think. This is going to be a real uphill climb identifying this poor young man, jmo, and hoping in the biggest way Ramapo identifies him. People who'd never be classified in a million years as drifters suddenly became just that during the GD era. Poor guy out there, first out in the middle of nowhere and then in a photographer's boat for decades. It's a truly sad case even knowing nothing else.
 
  • #33
Emery Clifford Kolb died in 1976 at the age of 95. His photographic studio at the Grand Canyon exists today as an historic building and museum containing many of his personal possessions.

Kolb donated his photograph collection to the University of Arizona in Flagstaff.

Kolb was married and had one child, a daughter. He had one grandson and two great grandchildren.
 
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