AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #10

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  • #1,061
ALSO very notable... they make no mention of a demand for justice to whomever may have taken Isabelle. Because according to them, someone has taken Isabelle, out of her home and she is very likely injured or possibly dead- there has been no ransom according to them. Even if they think someone took her to have her as their own child... why aren't they angry? No anger at whomever has done this? No threats of we will find you... you will not get away with this? THIS IS NOT NORMAL thinking or behavior and I will stand by that. Do I think they harmed Isa- NO... do I think they know what happened and she isn't coming home safely? YES I DO!

Why on earth would they threaten a kidnapper on national t.v, that makes no sense. I am sure they are angry, but they are hurting, their baby girl is missing and getting angry in front of cameras is not going to help bring Isa home. I am quite positive that they have been coached either somewhat by LE/FBI/BAU on what not to say, and I think threatening the kidnapper would be one of those things.

JMO
 
  • #1,062
BBM I did notice and it made them lose credibility in my eyes.

You mean the statement analysis people lost credibility in your eyes. If so I agree. jmo
 
  • #1,063
What I find strange about Becky and Sergio is also, as Lark said, they are "moving on". They said they had intentions of maybe sending the boys back to school this week, but no, now maybe it will be next week (but there is no contingency related to Isabel). They get very animated talking about the boys' games and the opera, to the point I almost forget that this is all about Isabel.

And they ask for everyone to pray, pray, pray, pray. Yes, they mentioned keeping your eyes open a few times also. But mostly, it's just about praying, not looking for Isabel. And there is no anger, no outrage, no fear about whether Isabel is afraid, is she being tortured, is she alive? It's as though they act like she might be on vacation somewhere and the worst case could be that she's hungry ("are they feeding her?").

I don't know, maybe this is an extreme form of denial?? I don't think I have ever seen the family of a kidnapping victim seem so 'light' or unconcerned about her plight. I just see absolutely no fear or anger in their behavior. Yet, they have tons and tons of gratitude for everyone around the world. I think my overwhelming feeling if my child went missing would be fear and anger. Maybe their faith really does keep them strong, or again, maybe it's an extreme case of denial. Two weeks missing, but their focus seems to have shifted to getting the boys back to school, into their sports, singing in the opera and going back to work. I can't help but believe I would remain completely incapacitated by my child's unknown whereabouts and disposition.

This is all so mysterious to me. I do want to believe the parents are uninvolved.

I agree, and I hope I can make a comparison without starting a debate. Leaving out all the craziness about the Caylee Anthony case, When her grandparents spoke about her, they spoke very much about needing/wanting her to back for her birthday, they spoke very much about having her come back for things, to be there with them, I just remember them being so vocal about Caylee coming home to enjoy the future. I would almost expect the same type of talk about Isabel. What about Isabel coming home, so she can get back to school. What about Isabel coming home so she can play with her team again. So she can see her friends, her family, her cousins. The mentions of Isabel coming home are left in the general context of just her coming home.

(PSA: This comparison is not meant to compare the two cases, just some comments. It is also not mean to bring up any debate on what type of people the Anthony's are and what exactly they knew early on, so please lets just leave all that out.)
 
  • #1,064
:seeya: Yes, I have read several different analyses ... which of course, cannot be linked here ... :)

And yes, they seem to be in "consensus" ....

1st BBM: I agree ... JMO and MOO, but it did not sound "natural" ...

2nd BBM: :fence: It's nice and comfortable down here ... no soreness ... no splinters ... :fence:

:moo:

Brick instead of wood. Isn't that a word of wisdom from the three little pigs?
icon12.gif
 
  • #1,065

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  • #1,066
Once again, I'm impressed with this family-- I DO wish, however, they would steel their collective nerve and return to the home Isabel is dreaming of. If she's alive, Isa's prayers are to go home!! She probably visualizes her family there, so happy to see her walk in the door, and so on. THIS is why I always want the parents to stay in the home-- because to the victim who was taken from there, it's not the "scene of the crime," it's the safe place she wants to return to. The scene of the crime is where she is at the moment. :(

Please go home, Celis family, and prepare for Isabel to come home. Fill your home, as well as your hearts, with prayerful promise and faith that she'll be delivered to you there.

jmho
 
  • #1,067
I would think that if dogs were from the Humane Society, they most likely would have had dog licences and vaccination proof. When one adopts from the Humane Society, one must have these things, and then most cities track renewals, and cite those who do not renew these things. Tucson Animal Care seems to treat dog regulations very seriously. JMO

This is from several pages back, but PAC seems to only have harsh penalties if you're caught. If you adopt from PAC or the Humane Society your pet is up to date with shots and is registered for the year, then it's up to you after that. They don't keep track, of course unless it's changed in the last few years, beyond sending out the notice that it's time to renew. Unless your dogs are caught running loose, or someone comes out for barking or neglect, that sort of thing. I don't think, though someone may correct me, you're even charged a fee if you're late in registering.

Not only does he look like the suspect in the photo there are other friend of JM's on FB that look like him. CC as well ML and even JS. ML and CC the most though

JS? I didn't notice a JS through JM's FB. Although I agree about ML and CC, however, they both have noticeable tattoos, wouldn't the girls have noticed some of that? Or have they and I just didn't see that part of the story?
 
  • #1,068
Not meaning this to be rude, interested in your opinion on why it matters how/where they wore their rosary's either now or in the past?

Does it matter if they were not that religious before, but have become more so because of this tragedy? Looking to G-d for answers? Maybe since they are carrying them with them at all times, they wear them around their neck when they are not praying?


:seeya:

:innocent: I have already opened up a big :worms:

But in response to your question ... I refer to it as "hypocrisy" ...


hy·poc·ri·sy   /hɪˈpɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy?s=t


:moo:
 
  • #1,069
Purely in the interest of posting what I heard in today's interview (that I haven't seen posted yet)...PARAPHRASED: Becky said that their family gets together every nite for a rosary (implied that it's since Isa disappeared)...they have several cell phones placed on the table (so the family not able to be there can "be there")...their version of doing a rosary is different...they make mistakes...they laugh and continue...

I'm staying out of the judgmental stuff about spiritual/religious practices...hoping everyone does whatever works for them (or nothing) and "allows" everyone else to do the same. :angel: ;)

That said, I noticed some odd things about this interview, but perhaps they were merely due to the very understandable stress of Isa being missing, lack of experience being on camera, limitations by LE on what they can reveal, or whatever else. One example: several phrases that were repeated over and over (as if rehearsed), but perhaps were "mantras" or indication of memorization techniques for "public speaking" without notes, printed statement (or prompter). And now (LOL), I am wondering if one of the strict requirements they had for the interview was a ....prompter. ;) Not that there's anything wrong with that...
 
  • #1,070
With all due respect, any G-d I want to believe in would not condemn a grieving parent for wearing a rosary.
 
  • #1,071
I am sure the Celises love their daughter and I do not get the feeling they would intentionally hurt her. However, she disappeared when she was under their care, which means they have some explaining to do. I have thirty years of experience babysitting for hundreds of children, from infants to teenagers. If I were babysititng overnight and one of the children disappeared from the house, no one would simply accept my assertion that the child had been abducted -- especially if I said that I, other children, and the dogs had slept through the abduction.

I also have had the experience -- albeit, mercifully briefly -- of having my own little boy go missing when we were at a hotel. The desperation I experienced during the hour he was missing was something I will never forget. It is inconceivable to me that, had he still been missing two weeks later, I would be anything as close to resigned as the Celises seem to be.

Watching the three appearances of the Celises so far, what strikes me as obvious is that they do not have any hope of finding her; they seem sad rather than frantic. I do not believe for a minute that Isabel was abducted by a stranger. There was some kind of accident and the the parents are involved in a cover-up. I do pity them, because I'm sure they never wanted anything like this to happen. However, I do not believe them.
 
  • #1,072
(snip) Why do they only ask for prayers for her? Not saying bring her home! Look for her, tell your friends... help US BRING HER HOME! Nope... pray for her. I would be begging... please find Isabelle and bring her home! I don't like it... something isn't right and that is how I feel. I have much more but that is what I will say for now...

I have seen this criticism from several people... IMO, they want you to PRAY THAT ISABEL COMES HOME SAFELY. Is there some other interpretation of "pray for Isabel" that I don't get?

They aren't saying NOT to look for her, just that for many of us, especially those at a distance, who feel like we want to help, this may be the only thing we can do for her. If they had said "You can send your contributions to : Find Isabel, P.O. Box...." which would have provoked more criticism, even from me.
 
  • #1,073
I have seen this criticism from several people... IMO, they want you to PRAY THAT ISABEL COMES HOME SAFELY. Is there some other interpretation of "pray for Isabel" that I don't get?

They aren't saying NOT to look for her, just that for many of us, especially those at a distance, who feel like we want to help, this may be the only thing we can do for her. If they had said "You can send your contributions to : Find Isabel, P.O. Box...." which would have provoked more criticism, even from me.

I think so too, especially since the dad mentioned on the Today show that he understood that people world wide were praying for her. I think that has helped them in some way to know that.
 
  • #1,074
The media did not notice this camera until yesterday. Why do we assume an intruder, at night, would have? (snip)

I guess I was assuming it was not a STUPID intruder. If he "cased the place" a week earlier (theory only) by letting the dogs out so he could walk around in the yard, look in windows, etc. I'd assume he would ALSO look for a camera (especially if there are signs indicating that the premises are monitored by surveillance cameras), in case he needed to avoid it. Seeing it pointed toward the rear of the home, but not knowing it was broken, he might have managed to get up there and turn it skyward. If it was already pointing that way, he would have ignored it.
 
  • #1,075
:seeya:
:innocent: I have already opened up a big :worms:
But in response to your question ... I refer to it as "hypocrisy" ...
hy·poc·ri·sy   /hɪˈpɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled[hi-pok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy?s=t
:moo:
“Judge not, lest you be judged” (Matthew 7:1)

A catholic judging is hypocrisy, is it not?
 
  • #1,076
I feel sorry for these parents who were criticized for not speaking to the media, and then when they do, every tiny aspect of their demeanor, words , clothing is going to be picked apart and used against them.

I agree, HuckleberryHound! The parents relented to pressure from the police and did two segments on the Today show (the taped one and the live on-air one). Then every little thing is scrutinized and debated. I heard one "expert" dissect their breathing patterns to tell whether they are lying. The finding - Isa's mother is under stress. Gee, really!

I'm glad the parents did the interview. But, unfortunately, their answers to questions are repeated in headlines and analyses as if they came from out of the blue. For example, the parents claiming police focusing too much on them. The parents were asked a questions about the police invesigating them and they answered yes, that they understand why they must but understandably wish the focus was on something that would lead to finding Isa. I don't want to debate the specifics. I'm just saying that sensational headlines and promos make it appear as if the subject made a spontaneous statement, when really the person was answering a question.

It was a good move for the parents to speak publicly. But they are damned if they do, damned it they don't for every utterance and gesture.
 
  • #1,077
After watching this i have no doubt mom had anything to do with Isa missing. Dad well the only reason i havent yet is because someone said on here that someone else closed their eyes when talking and was guilty of a kidnapping. Just can't remember that persons name or case that was talked about. But other than that they seem to have been a happy family who are wanting their daughter back.

Susan Smith => Closed eyes => Guilty

Ed Smart => Closed eyes => NOT Guilty

Sergio Celis => Closed eyes => ?
 
  • #1,078
:fence: this fence is hurting my arse.
 
  • #1,079
  • #1,080
ALSO very notable... they make no mention of a demand for justice to whomever may have taken Isabelle. Because according to them, someone has taken Isabelle, out of her home and she is very likely injured or possibly dead- there has been no ransom according to them. Even if they think someone took her to have her as their own child... why aren't they angry? No anger at whomever has done this? No threats of we will find you... you will not get away with this? THIS IS NOT NORMAL thinking or behavior and I will stand by that. Do I think they harmed Isa- NO... do I think they know what happened and she isn't coming home safely? YES I DO!

It is a motivational issue, I think.

If they want the kidnapper to return their daughter, will they be more successful at accomplishing this by saying "Please, all we want is our Isabel back!" or "We want Isabel back and we want to see you hang for what you have put us through!" They do not want to alienate this person, they want to touch him/her and get Isa back unharmed.

I watch Law & Order type stuff and often the detective will pretend to be sympathetic to get what they want (a confession in that case). In this case, I think the old adage is "You'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar". If Isabel is found to be deceased, they will certainly demand justice. This just isn't the time.
 
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