GUILTY AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[callyn]

I highly doubt that anyone was sleeping in the red car. This is Arizona, hot, hot and hot again.

I believe it's fairly cool at night in Arizona. It is here where I live, in a very similar environment.

 

[Shelby2]

:fence:

No he didn't, IMO. I never heard a hint of a "W" sound crossing his lips. He said "she is...she IS...". Unless you are a mind reader, I don't know how you can tell he was about to use the past tense.

To me, he is trying to convince himself she is still alive.

ITA. He must be terrified that she is not alive-but at the same time refusing to believe it.

Actually, I thought most of us heard just that-"she is...IS"

 

[pieper4]

The diagram, though, cannot be accurate. What are those two little room off Isabel's room? Closets? Bathroom? Why no access to the boys' room? I want the real floor plan.

Yes, there is something wrong with the blue floor plan. There's no door shown for the bedroom off the living room, and an odd box (too small to be a bathroom; not typical drafting symbol that I'm aware of). Also no bathroom or closet access off that room. I don't think that's an accurate plan at all. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a filed floor plan on the assessor's site (which I find odd. Every home I've purchased here and many I've looked to purchase all have had floor plans, even if outdated).

 

[carole]

This article came from the examiner. I am spacing it out because that site is a blocked site here at WS.

If I can see it elsewhere in another MSM link then I will consider it but on this site even you or I could write an article about any case and publish it.

Cadaver dog is reported by kvoa --

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

Article from 4-23 titled -- Police: 'Everyone is a person of interest' in case of missing girl (quoting Tucson Police Chief Villasenor) -- about the middle of the article--

"Two dogs from the FBI are in Tucson, specifically trained in searched urban areas, Villasenor said. One dog is training in tracking scents, the other is a cadaver-sniffing dog."

(You have to scroll way way way down the page to find this report.)

 

[pieper4]

Cadaver dog is reported by kvoa --

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

Article from 4-23 titled -- Police: 'Everyone is a person of interest' in case of missing girl (quoting Tucson Police Chief Villasenor) -- about the middle of the article--

"Two dogs from the FBI are in Tucson, specifically trained in searched urban areas, Villasenor said. One dog is training in tracking scents, the other is a cadaver-sniffing dog."

Right. But ^^ does not state "cadaverine" was detected. Just that one of the dogs was trained for cadavers, but not necessarily the one which alerted in the home/near the home.

 

[SuziQ]

This article came from the examiner. I am spacing it out because that site is a blocked site here at WS.

If I can see it elsewhere in another MSM link then I will consider it but on this site even you or I could write an article about any case and publish it.

AFAIK, the examiner is not a blocked link. At least one writer at there, Isabel Zehnder, is vetted and approved for posting at WS.

FWIW, I googled the article and that blocked link is from a crime blog, HTH.

 

[SmoothOperator]

To each their own.. No one is attempting to sway anyone's opinion ONTO the uncle/cousin, JM..to each their own.. There are many of us who have discussed over the course of the numerous threads and otherwise some of the things that have him on our radar.. Whether or not others may happen to not agree with those opinions regarding, JM is their prerogative.. Just as it is some of ours to be of the opinion that the parents are NOT involved in their daughters disappearance.. For me there are very much issues at play with her parents that have zero to do with Isa at all.. Yet it is raising the hinky meter and people assume that must mean they are picking up on hinkiness related to their being involved in their daughters disappearance.. I believe that to NOT be true in the least and strongly believe neither of them to be in any way involved with the disappearance nor would they cover FOR ANYONE INVOLVED IN HARMING AND/OR TAKING ISA.. Those are my opinions and I'm fine that others do not see it that way or believe something different.. To each their own..

But as far as there not being anything the least bit indicative of JM possibly being involved.. There are many who are of the opinion that there is.. Just as many are of the opinion that the parents are LIARS(yes that's been stated in bold print) that these parents are LIARS and absolutely involved in and know where Isa is.. That IMO is very very far from being a bit accurate.. But again to each their own. Many of us have very thoroughly sleuthed, dug, and done every bit of our homework on the people in this case.. So i promise you the views and opinions regarding EVERYONE INVOLVED are not merely pulled out of thin air..

It's to each their own and I don't believe anyone is attempting to sway anyone's opinion ONTO JM.. To each their own..


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[callyn]

Yes, there is something wrong with the blue floor plan. There's no door shown for the bedroom off the living room, and an odd box (too small to be a bathroom; not typical drafting symbol that I'm aware of). Also no bathroom or closet access off that room. I don't think that's an accurate plan at all. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a filed floor plan on the assessor's site (which I find odd. Every home I've purchased here and many I've looked to purchase all have had floor plans, even if outdated).

It doesn't even show a door in the brother's bedroom. And the other plan that we see on the monitor in that video (and the photos posted here) is so jumbled up with notations it's impossible to see what's what.

 

[mck16]

I believe this little controversy started over someone posting elsewhere something I won't repeat here, and then people piecing together relationships through FB. According to MSM he is her uncle, as he claims to be. Rumors suggest otherwise.

I don't know if you can quote FB, probably not, but I have been all over FB (his page) and cannot find one person except a brother that actually says they are related. There is a lady with the same last name, but I don't know how she is related. Help me out here if it is okay to do, because I have been trying to piece it together. tia

 

[Donjeta]

JMO I think that cadaver dogs would most likely alert at most landfills.

People die at their homes and leave the scent behind on bedding etc., things to be discarded in a landfill.

Even if true it would mean little unless the alert was very specifically in the trash that came from Isabel's neighborhood, or a suspect's neighborhood.

 

[Lava]

JMO I think that cadaver dogs would most likely alert at most landfills.

People die at their homes and leave the scent behind on bedding etc., things to be discarded in a landfill.

Even if true it would mean little unless the alert was very specifically in the trash that came from Isabel's neighborhood, or a suspect's neighborhood.

Was there an alert at the landfill? I thought there was just some sort of alert by an unconfirmed dog at the house?

 

[Dr. Know?]

If the garage door had a opener w/keypad, the perp might have known the code or had a remote. If it doesn't, they'd just open it. Ours makes virtually no noise when opening or closing it. So, besides the double drive gate on the side street, the garage could also be a point of entry.

With the family not hearing anything, no dogs barking except at around 6:30 am when the neighbor heard two men talking, it would most likely be someone familar to the family & home.

Btw, I put JM's name in google yesterday & read the headlines/descriptions but gave up by the 48th page. 99% were the interviews with him posted in the news around the world.

It's interesting that SC wants all family & friends to step forward.

 

[carole]

Right. But ^^ does not state "cadaverine" was detected. Just that one of the dogs was trained for cadavers, but not necessarily the one which alerted in the home/near the home.

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

4-23 Article -- RAW VIDEO: Tucson Police updates missing girl case in latest conference

"The FBI's search dog did "alert" on a scent sometime between late last night and early this morning but Tucson Police would not provide any details at this time.

Police have also secured the landfill where the neighborhood's trash would have been dropped off, and are searching for possible leads there."

Doesn't say which search dog alerted, but it seems logical to think that this search dog alert lead to the landfill search since there is nothing else reported that I know about that would seem to make Isabel 's case anything other than a kidnapping/missing child.

From this, I would think that the cadaver dog had the alert.

 

[GutFeeling!]

BBM

But this is not a car they drove to games or anywhere -- the car does not run. So why were there pillows, etc. in the car? Maybe left in there from when it did run?? Still seems strange that the police thought there might be some kind of evidence on these items.

BBM Respectfully, I have been to many police scenes where evidence was taken bag after bag after bag after bag - a lot of it absolutely useless in the investigation. If they don't get it the first time they have to get a whole new warrant to search, so they often take something that may have nothing to do with anything. A blanket may have been taken because something like a blanket may have hidden the body and then been thrown in an unused car on the way back to the house.

they always remind me of grocery shopping, I have a list of what I want and walk out with a dozen other things that may come in handy lol

 

[Donjeta]

Was there an alert at the landfill? I thought there was just some sort of alert by an unconfirmed dog at the house?

Well, that's why I said, even if true, because I don't know, it's just what the quote in post #402 said.

Search for Isabel Celis Leads To Cadaver Alert In Home And Local Landfill- Family Barred From Home
Monday 23 April 2012

 

[carole]

Was there an alert at the landfill? I thought there was just some sort of alert by an unconfirmed dog at the house?

No, the alert was not at the landfill, it was separate from the landfill search.

See my last post 454.

 

[carole]

BBM Respectfully, I have been to many police scenes where evidence was taken bag after bag after bag after bag - a lot of it absolutely useless in the investigation. If they don't get it the first time they have to get a whole new warrant to search, so they often take something that may have nothing to do with anything. A blanket may have been taken because something like a blanket may have hidden the body and then been thrown in an unused car on the way back to the house.

they always remind me of grocery shopping, I have a list of what I want and walk out with a dozen other things that may come in handy lol

I believe it was reported that the car was searched later than the house and required its own search warrant.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I have seen all those interviews before. Nothing jumped out at me then and nothing jumps out at me now. Actually I am watching ID Discovery and one case of a missing girl that was on earlier, the father said the exact same thing. I think it is a perfectly normal thing to say. It is a nightmare, an awful thing, and I am sure they all wish they were dreaming. I just don't know anymore. But, I am not really suspicious of JM. That is not to say I dont thnk it could be a neighbor or friend. jmo

Speaking of neighbors or friends, what about Alicia Stardevant, the next door neighbor? She inserts herself into the case very early on. IIRC she lives alone in the guest house next door. Does she have a boyfriend or frequent guests? It's easy enough to find her youtube channel, facebook and court cases.

"Neighbor Alicia Stardevant lives next door to the family's home; a wall separates her bedroom from Isabel's. On Saturday she woke up to noises outside her window.
"I noticed two male voices outside my bedroom window and I also noticed their dogs just going crazy, too," Stardevant said. "I didn't really think anything of it because it was light outside and I thought maybe someone was going for a walk."
Stardevant told CNN's Nancy Grace she wished she had paid closer attention because there shouldn't have been anyone in the breezeway between the two properties.
Stardevant added that everything seemed to be normal at the Celis' home, which she's lived next door to for the last eight months.
"No strange activity, no strange cars, just seemed like a quiet house," she said."

Now why would she think the perp would be on her breezeway next to the Celis' wall? Does she think they came in from her side of the house? Granted, Isa's bedroom window is there inside the wall, but with the alley in the back and the gate on the other side, the streets both on the other side, she ponders her breezeway which is open to the street, but not the Celis' lawn.

 

[callyn]

BBM Respectfully, I have been to many police scenes where evidence was taken bag after bag after bag after bag - a lot of it absolutely useless in the investigation. If they don't get it the first time they have to get a whole new warrant to search, so they often take something that may have nothing to do with anything. A blanket may have been taken because something like a blanket may have hidden the body and then been thrown in an unused car on the way back to the house.

they always remind me of grocery shopping, I have a list of what I want and walk out with a dozen other things that may come in handy lol

I agree. And, if anything significant had been found on those items taken from the car, I think they would have come back and taken the entire car to be gone over thoroughly.

 

[GutFeeling!]

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

4-23 Article -- RAW VIDEO: Tucson Police updates missing girl case in latest conference

"The FBI's search dog did "alert" on a scent sometime between late last night and early this morning but Tucson Police would not provide any details at this time.

Police have also secured the landfill where the neighborhood's trash would have been dropped off, and are searching for possible leads there."

Doesn't say which search dog alerted, but it seems logical to think that this search dog alert lead to the landfill search since there is nothing else reported that I know about that would seem to make Isabel 's case anything other than a kidnapping/missing child.

From this, I would think that the cadaver dog had the alert.

the only logic in the landfill search was that it was done early because the day Isabel was reported missing was the same day that business dumpsters are emptied. Landfill searches are horrendous weeks after an event, not real great days after an event but at least you don't have to dig down low to get the rubbish. Moo