AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[Prof]

Could this be because of the stress or trauma related to Isa's disappearance? I'm not a parent or guardian, so I'm not really clear on the scope of CPS' mission/responsibilities.

I don't know, but I was thinking along those same lines, and possibly the fact that LE has not cleared the parents, yet?

CPS would not be doing their job IMO if they did not get involved in such a highly publicized case where a six year old is missing, and LE cannot clear the parents, yet.

IMO That does not mean that there is any increased guilt here. IMO it means that LE is still not willing to make any statement either way about the parents' involvement.

I don't see this as a change in the case, but a perhaps delayed reaction by CPS. JMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

But these questions were also asked to LE at numerous press conferences-and THEY said they would not comment due to the fact that it would "harm their investigation".
Why would the parents do anything different?? I'm sure the parents aren't calling the shots here!

But LE is not the parents.

I, as a mother, would be yakking to any camera stuck in my face, holding up a picture of my daughter, stressing, repeating, giving out every single detail I could. I would never let anyone forget my baby was out there and PLEASE help me find her! What is LE gonna do? Arrest me for getting my baby's face out there?

As for LE, IMHO they aren't answering these questions for the same reason the parent's aren't: they both know she wasn't kidnapped. Again, IMHO.

Ya know, the Bain case was solved pretty darn quick and there was tons of media and info released to the public. In fact LE said today that help from the public was instrumental in finding them so quickly.



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[BetteDavisEyes]

Someone posted (sorry, I cannot remember who, but back in this thread somewhere) asking why Isabel was not listed on the FBI Kidnappings and Missing Persons list. What a great question. Why is she not on that list???

I asked about the FBI missing persons list and posted the link. I have checked that website daily since Isabel went missing. This "missing child" has not yet appeared on the FBI "missing persons" list. There must be a reason why Isabel is not listed. I suspect it's because the FBI isn't convinced that Isabel Celis is a "missing child" :cowcouch:

 

[Lark2]

FBI site only has a tiny # of people on there...they have Aliyah, as "missing" yet Ayla or Lisa not at all. They show Lindsey Baum as "missing" yet Hailey Dunn as "kidnapped."
And also Sierra is shown as "missing."

No rhyme or reason at all.

I dunno, Clu, one common denominator may be that those who are presumed dead and whose perpetrator is known to LE are excluded from the list. For instance, Alyla Reynolds: LE believe she came to harm from her dad. Ditto Lisa Irwin. Perhaps with Aliyah, they're still not sure. Etc etc.

 

[pieper4]

Just asking because I truthfully do not know. Is it SOP to call in CPS on such cases? I mean where no inkling of possible negligence, abuse, etc. is demonstrated?

 

[Shelby2]

Well it does worry me that they say they "have become aware of information regarding the welfare of the two older children"..but why leave it at that?? Why bring it up and say NOTHING ELSE? No "it has nothing to do with her disappearance"-I mean they must want people to think it DOES.
Look at all the other information LE won't talk about- then they come out with this???

They know whoever did this is watching every report..I just don't buy this "keeping the public informed" crap. Something else is going on.

 

[Lark2]

Anyway, something's not right with this case. It's not one big thing but a lot of little things. Plus, a young child who was believed kidnapped from her room in the middle of the night would have a population in panic and LE searching high and low, on high alert, to find her, dead or alive, so that they could find the perpetrator and keep it from happening again.

I'm just not seeing that.

 

[Shelby2]

But LE is not the parents.

I, as a mother, would be yakking to any camera stuck in my face, holding up a picture of my daughter, stressing, repeating, giving out every single detail I could. I would never let anyone forget my baby was out there and PLEASE help me find her! What is LE gonna do? Arrest me for getting my baby's face out there?

As for LE, IMHO they aren't answering these questions for the same reason the parent's aren't: they both know she wasn't kidnapped. Again, IMHO.

Ya know, the Bain case was solved pretty darn quick and there was tons of media and info released to the public. In fact LE said today that help from the public was instrumental in finding them so quickly.



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I don't know. But Gary Baines was in seclusion while his girls were missing, and people here were starting to wonder about him too.

The way LE has kept things so close to the vest, it's very hard for me to figure anything out with the limited info we have.

 

[cluciano63]

The CPS thing is disturbing and unusual to me...if LE felt, unofficially, that the family was cleared yet couldn't say so publicly, I don't know if this would be happening. There has to be a reason...JMO

Were the Irwin's children involved with CPS after Lisa disappeared? Or other families? It doesn't seem so, but I can't recall. At this stage in the case, it is upsetting that LE cannot rule out the parents, even if just in some subtle way...

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Here's the latest:

Police: CPS has 'increased involvement' in Celis investigation

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-cps-has-increased-involvement-in-celis-investigation/

I wish I could understand what criteria LE is using to determine what facts/developments they do release and which they choose as too sensitive and refuse to share.

In this release they claim, ". . . in keeping with our commitment to keep members of the media and our community informed of changes or developments in this investigation, we felt it important to advise you of the increased involvement of CPS."

I'm confused as to why they would feel it might be helpful to release this info but not who placed the 911 call?

:dunno:​

 

[liz b.]

Here's the latest:

Police: CPS has 'increased involvement' in Celis investigation

http://www.kvoa.com/news/police-cps-has-increased-involvement-in-celis-investigation/

I'm surprised and troubled to hear this. Wonder what has been going on with the two boys ? MOO

 

[cluciano63]

"Increased involvement" is what is interesting to me...I did not know there was any involvement...

 

[pieper4]

I am hopeful. To me this indicates progress.

 

[Shelby2]

I wish I could understand what criteria LE is using to determine what facts/developments they do release and which they choose as too sensitive and refuse to share.

In this release they claim, ". . . in keeping with our commitment to keep members of the media and our community informed of changes or developments in this investigation, we felt it important to advise you of the increased involvement of CPS."

I'm confused as to why they would feel it might be helpful to release this info but not who placed the 911 call?

:dunno:​

Exactly!!
I'm trying to figure out just what LE's motivation is here.

I'm wonder if this will be the next "bombshell"..

 

[Taminator]

Just asking because I truthfully do not know. Is it SOP to call in CPS on such cases? I mean where no inkling of possible negligence, abuse, etc. is demonstrated?

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/sites/defa..._possible_abduction_-_isabel_celis_update.pdf

snipped from TPD media release:

"It needs to be stressed that is common practice for CPS to become involved in investigations regarding missing children".

I'm still not convinced that this means that it has anything to do with the parents being involved. IMO & IIRC the boys went back to school this week.
Maybe they are expressing concern over their parents' state of mind or their own state of mind and CPS is giving them advising them to get the kids or themselves in counseling. They do provide a lot of services in these matters.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

It is as though LE has no problem releasing info that seems to pressure the family but stays very far away from stating any facts that seem supportive.

I don't think this is my imagination, is it?

 

[cluciano63]

It is as though LE has no problem releasing info that seems to pressure the family but stays very far away from stating any facts that seem supportive.

I don't think this is my imagination, is it?

No. It has been this way the whole three weeks. They have never referred to the family as victims, either.

 

[TGIRecovered]

The combination of LE's decision not to release the 911 call info and the announcement of increased CPS involvement leads me to wonder if the 911 call reveals the presence of a person who could be perceived as a danger to the children. Maybe LE doesn't want the public to focus on info revealed in the 911 call but they want to reassure the public that they are taking every step they can to insure the health and safety of the other children in the family. MOO

ETA- Would LE withhold the call info if the call was made by one of the kids?

 

[Shelby2]

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/sites/defa..._possible_abduction_-_isabel_celis_update.pdf

snipped from TPD media release:



I'm still not convinced that this means that it has anything to do with the parents being involved. IMO & IIRC the boys went back to school this week.
Maybe they are expressing concern over their parents' state of mind or their own state of mind and CPS is giving them advising them to get the kids or themselves in counseling. They do provide a lot of services in these matters.

I can see that-but why would LE choose to release this?
They are hoping this leads to something?

 

[white rabbit]

I dont know but I dont think he has changed his mind.

Of course he has to keep all possibilities open but by now I think LE has one theory in mind and I see no evidence that it has anything at all to do with Isa's parents.

IMO

I am hopeful. To me this indicates progress.

three weeks into the investigation, CPS isn't randomly called to make sure the boys are "adjusting". IMO. volunteers giving up their time, money, and family have raised well over $17,000. perhaps the family should hire a psychologist to help the boys 'adjust'?

ITA with you, pieper...i'm sorry, ocean, i don't agree...quite probable i don't agree with LE either...