GUILTY AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[joedotnet]

O/T My daughter has a Boston Terrier and she looks like she is wearing a tuxedo.

My beagle looks like he's wearing another fatter beagle.



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[Shelby2]

Ok...if one of the parents did it...with such a short timeframe from last saw by others and the disappearance....what are some possible scenarios. I can't really come up with a good one unless one was covering up for the other. Unless, Becky didn't really see Isa at home that night...only at the ball field and assumed Isa was home....but she wasn't....but that theory contradicts their NBC interview.

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I don't know, from what I remember Becky went to bed first because she had to work early, maybe around 10:30? Then got up the next morning, didn't check on Isabel, left for work around 7:30. Isabel (don't know if this part is true) usually slept in her brothers room, except for that night. Dad saw her at 11 as she walked by on her way to bed.

So say the time frame, if what we have heard is the truth, is 6 hours to be on the safe side?

Now I am wondering about the men outside at 6:30 AM..did someone have help?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I find it very hard to watch Sergio sing "Ave Maria" so peacefully-and reconcile in my mind that he may have killed/hidden this same daughter he sings for. Yet, I know it is in the realm of possibility. Having this feeling leads me to search for ways that these parents can be innocent, but have yet found themselves in this custody/no contact situation. I do not think that substance abuse, or mental health issues are substantive enough to warrant such wording. However, I can entertain the idea that amongst the questioning of the boys, by either LE, or conversations of the boys with friends, classmates, family, teachers, counselors that some issue of abuse\physical disipline from the non-custodial parent, has caused LE, CPS to err on the side of caution in protection of these kids. I feel like the wording, this action was taken after the parents met with CPS and TPD could indicate an issue that still under AZ law must be dealt with. I do not think that in a situation where there was imminent danger to these children, meetings would be held. I guess what I am saying is that the non-custodial parent could be suspected of abusing their child, yet still not have killed or hidden the child. I am really, really wanting to find a way to NOT suspect this family.

The whole Ave Maria thing BLEW MY MIND as a Catholic there are very few things that move us like THAT SONG and he did it SO WONDERFULLY! If Sergio is able to be that person one minute and someone who was removed from his family by CPS the next then well my ability to judge people is way worse than I freaking first thought.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Found it! I bolded the part that confused me, because as posted above, volunteer searches aren't being done.

Thoughts?

Same thoughts for me... Confusion!

 

[Dr. Know?]

I tried searching the court records for both parents & rec'd an error message? If this is a repeat, my apologies as the forum went poof on me. Also, the PC Jail. No one familar.

 

[Shelby2]

Sergio set off my hinky meter from the get go.. so my gut instinct tells me it will be him that has been served a no contact order. JMO.. but I think an arrest is imminent. Ive also felt TPD decided pretty early on that there was no abduction, and that was the reason for the landfill searches, and also why they've kept the search to a 3 mile radius.

Also LE did not want any help with searches....

 

[Emeralgem]

Sergio set off my hinky meter from the get go.. so my gut instinct tells me it will be him that has been served a no contact order. JMO.. but I think an arrest is imminent. Ive also felt TPD decided pretty early on that there was no abduction, and that was the reason for the landfill searches, and also why they've kept the search to a 3 mile radius.

Mine too..In that first interview I immediately thought of Susan Smith..JMHO

 

[Shelby2]

The whole Ave Maria thing BLEW MY MIND as a Catholic there are very few things that move us like THAT SONG and he did it SO WONDERFULLY! If Sergio is able to be that person one minute and someone who was removed from his family by CPS the next then well my ability to judge people is way worse than I freaking first thought.

I was thinking the same thing, the part I bolded.

I should remember why my sig is 'evil don't look like anything'.

I still don't want to believe they had anything to do with it though.

 

[tiredblondy]

I don't know, from what I remember Becky went to bed first because she had to work early, maybe around 10:30? Then got up the next morning, didn't check on Isabel, left for work around 7:30. Isabel (don't know if this part is true) usually slept in her brothers room, except for that night. Dad saw her at 11 as she walked by on her way to bed.

So say the time frame, if what we have heard is the truth, is 6 hours to be on the safe side?

Now I am wondering about the men outside at 6:30 AM..did someone have help?

Oh my goodness, I just had a thought, who do we know was the last one that saw her? How many times we've heard this over and over? Nope! I can't go there yet. Not yet? If so, I suspect there might be an arrest this week-end but there's definitely pressure.

 

[gitana1]

Snipped from your post Gitana1.

Just to be clear. The no contact order was filed by TPD and not CPS? Would this be obtained in a family law court, therefore it is not on the court website where traffic and criminal records are listed?

Did they? LE does have limited power to issue an emergency protective order and that is in connection with a domestic violence accusation (and LE finds evidence of DV), but those typically last only a day or two, until the other parent files for a dv restraining order.

Oh, I see what you're asking. Sorry. Okay, what I'm saying is there is no "order" at all. There may be conditions to allowing the children to remain with one parent, which includes that parent ensuring no contact with the other (a safety plan), but it is being interpreted as an "order" by the media, for lack of a better word.

But if there isn't an open juvenile dependency case and the children are not in protective custody, how can CPS prevent the dangerous parent from having contact? They really can't, which is why I think the children may have actually been placed into state care, but released physically, to the other parent. That is more than a safety plan alone.

Same for several of us I suspect, what are some reasons you might guess this could happen? If they are encouraging a child to lie, could that happen. My mind goes where I don't want it to with a no contact order!

IMO, cases where a child this age disappears at the hands of a parent when the parents are still together and one parent does not disappear with the child, are due to abuse - sexual abuse that becomes so bad it cannot be hidden or there is a threat from the child to tell, so the abuser intentionally kills the child to hide the abuse, or physical abuse that leads to death.

I don't believe in the "there was an accident so I inexplicably made things worse by faking an abduction and assuming, even though no loving parent does, that my child cannot be saved, regardless of how dead they appear" theory.

I also don't believe in the selling one's child to a vast, underground sex ring. And I don't believe that parents who are not heavily involved in drugs and extremely poor, sell their kids for drugs.

Also, I think the "my kid was kidnapped for drug retribution" thing only happens to the very heavily addicted, involved-in-drug trafficking parents. Neither of these parents have the physical signs of serious drug use that would accompany such a thing, nor the lifestyle.

Finally, setting up an abduction for some sort of monetary reward of some kind only happens in the movies. Man on Fire is fiction. :moo:

 

[gitana1]

This is me and my cat right here, exactly.


http://nedroid.com/2009/05/party-cat-full-series/

PAXIMUS, this is too much! I loved it. Thanks for the much-needed levity.

 

[Oneoffourhills]

I'd like to bring some local information into question as well. I live in a city an hour out of Tucson, very close, within 5 miles of the Mexican Border. I am familiar with the border cities of Douglas, Nogalas, Agua Prieta all Port of Entries. We have a heavy Border Patrol presence. I know the idea of drug dealing or involvement with cartels has been discussed, and should be. Another equally serious issue here is the "coyote", or the human smuggler. Someone that is paid to transport illegals across the border (not necessarily the port of entries). This is something else I feel SC could have been involved in. I also feel that involvement with cartels or human trafficing, could warrant a no contact with your children order.

 

[katydid23]

Now that I own a Tuxedo cat I dont think I could own anything else, they have a personality that is just different from any other cat, I absolutely LOVE him. He showed up when he was about a little less than one year old I would guess, in my backyard EATING the birds under my bird feeder, he was skinny and starving and he quickly took a liking to his new daddy and we have never been apart since going on two years now, I dont know what I would do without my little Wilbur (named after the Wildcat mascot of the University of Arizona in Tucson).

I agree about their personalities. We had two tuxedo brothers, and they were more like 'dogs' than cats. They liked to ride in the car, and they actually came when you called them. They were great kittycats, may they rest in Peace.

 

[Oneoffourhills]

The whole Ave Maria thing BLEW MY MIND as a Catholic there are very few things that move us like THAT SONG and he did it SO WONDERFULLY! If Sergio is able to be that person one minute and someone who was removed from his family by CPS the next then well my ability to judge people is way worse than I freaking first thought.

I totally agree.

 

[tiredblondy]

I'd like to bring some local information into question as well. I live in a city an hour out of Tucson, very close, within 5 miles of the Mexican Border. I am familiar with the border cities of Douglas, Nogalas, Agua Prieta all Port of Entries. We have a heavy Border Patrol presence. I know the idea of drug dealing or involvement with cartels has been discussed, and should be. Another equally serious issue here is the "coyote", or the human smuggler. Someone that is paid to transport illegals across the border (not necessarily the port of entries). This is something else I feel SC could have been involved in. I also feel that involvement with cartels or human trafficing, could warrant a no contact with your children order.

Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Child Protective Services’ primary objective is to keep children safely within their own families. CPS works cooperatively with parents to make that happen. Child Protective Services is a program that seeks to help families by strengthening the ability of parents, guardians or custodians to provide good care for their children. The program tries to balance the legal rights of parents and the needs and rights of children to live in a physically and emotionally healthful situation.

I know that is official but having dealt (actually dealing) with CPS at the moment I call codswallop.

My grandson is in a postion at the moment where one parent has been denied any contact at all. No phone calls, no visits (it started as one half hour supervised visit per week - lasted one week). They cannot even contact me to see how he is (I am helping look after him while everything goes through the courts) CPS organized a restraining order against them so they would not be able to contact me.This is not a :moo: sadly it is a fact.

 

[gitana1]

Now that I own a Tuxedo cat I dont think I could own anything else, they have a personality that is just different from any other cat, I absolutely LOVE him. He showed up when he was about a little less than one year old I would guess, in my backyard EATING the birds under my bird feeder, he was skinny and starving and he quickly took a liking to his new daddy and we have never been apart since going on two years now, I dont know what I would do without my little Wilbur (named after the Wildcat mascot of the University of Arizona in Tucson).

I have a sweet, little tuxedo kitty. I got her so my little black kitty Scout (who is featured in my blog post) could have a sibling. Scout is incredibly bright, but my tuxedo kitty, Nico, well, she's very different. I believe she is special needs. She is smart in her own way, but is just not typical. She has remained kitten-like and will remain so forever. Oh, she's such a sweet, strange little baby!

Gitana, I am familiar with a no contact order because of what happened with one of my friends daughters and it was about sexual abuse. Do you think they would do it for physical abuse?

In the case of abuse, the child is removed, unless the parent states they intend to seek a DV protective order on behalf of the child (abuse is also domestic violence) in the next day or so. Then, yes, LE can issue an EPO that will last until the next court calendar day. We will see a court date if that is the case here. If not, and it is a standard juvenile dependency case, those are usually very confidential and not open to the public. But we would still get wind of an open case.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I try not to sit here & pound something into someone's mind that's not a fact. I reallly try to ignore all of that & post links toward facts.

Do I have a suspect, yelp. I also have more if my op proves wrong. Open mind helps.

May Isa be found! Please watchover the brothers! Bring Isa Home!

 

[tiredblondy]

It is time for me to leave all you guy, gals and pets and go to bed.Can't think about this anymore right now. See you tomorrow and I just might have me some Kahlua to share too. Nite

 

[Whisperer]

Okay, so both of the parents were in a hotel, right? Do we know if they shared a room? Perhaps they had separate rooms. I keep thinking that perhaps Sergio didn't always live with Becky....just a hunch, nothing else. These two parents could be sharing something secret and it may not be related to Isa at all.