AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[Shelby2]

I posted this earlier-LE came out and gave this latest info out-if it had nothing to do with the case they could have said that but hey didn't. Also the articles state that CPS is now joining LE's investigation. That worries me, but if it helps find Isabella I don't care.
I am glad the FBI is still involved.

 

[white rabbit]

Does anyone have any information on the ER vs Rebecca and Sergio civil(?) case of 2003?

i do but it doesn't detail what the case was for. ER vs RC, with SC also named as defendant. eventually RC/SC filed a counterclaim and the entire case was dismissed.

i sleuthed ER but came up empty. there are more than one so cannot post it as i'm not sure who he is. there's one with a big ugly rap sheet but it would be unfair to assume it's the same guy.

 

[Shelby2]

Just catching up on the overnight posts. I got up to pee at 3:30 (EDT) and was tempted to sneak into the den and log-in to Websleuths

That's why I love my ITouch. I can sneak it anywhere LOL

 

[unsinkable]

Does anyone know if iIsabel was a planned pregnancy?

Maybe the no contact is temporary until they can get neutral locations and supervisors in place for visits?

 

[Shelby2]

i do but it doesn't detail what the case was for. ER vs RC, with SC also named as defendant. eventually RC/SC filed a counterclaim and the entire case was dismissed.

i sleuthed ER but came up empty. there are more than one so cannot post it as i'm not sure who he is. there's one with a big ugly rap sheet but it would be unfair to assume it's the same guy.

Did the one with the rap sheet have the same name plus one more added on?

 

[white rabbit]

Did the one with the rap sheet have the same name plus one more added on?

yep. as a prefix IIRC...

 

[liz b.]

Are we quite sure about the no contact issue ? Quite sure this is true ? Because I'm baffled...I have cared for children in situations where one parent has tried to kill the other one,and the kids had regular visitation with both parents. Also, situations where one parent has been arrested for major drug charges.Still got contact with their kids. MOO

The only time I can really say a no contact order happened very quickly is in cases of severe and ongoing abuse,often sexual abuse... I would really not have thought of that in this case...but,I guess anything is possible ? MOO

Did LE examine the family's computers ? Maybe they found something on there ? It really is puzzling...JMO

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I've been only mildly following this case, but the latest news brought me back here!

What bothers me is:

Who called 911? Not the dad, but a woman, a sister(?). Where did the call originate?

The chat between dad and Isa - did't I read he offered her something to eat? At 10 or 11 pm? She supposedly responded "I'm tired." That was very odd to me - offering food that late, and a parent not tucking the child into bed, earlier, or even at that time. It is a very odd and stilted conversation, to me.


Mom never checked in on Isa? I always checked on my kids, and still check grandkids before I turn in.

Isa usually slept with her brothers? HUH? But NOT that night. That is odd too. All of it.

If Isa was removed from the house, why would it be done at 630am, when the neighbor heard voices outside Isa's window? Why not in the dark?

I have no idea what happened or could have happened, but it is getting curiouser and curiouser!

Another sleuthing site reported it IS the dad who can't have contact with the boys. I did not link, because I think it is a violation of TOS.

 

[amysmom]

IF either one (or both) of the boys have a juvi record we would not know correct? Not that I'm implying anything just wondering how that works.

 

[white rabbit]

Are we quite sure about the no contact issue ? Quite sure this is true ? Because I'm baffled...I have cared for children in situations where one parent has tried to kill the other one,and the kids had regular visitation with both parents. Also, situations where one parent has been arrested for major drug charges.Still got contact with their kids. MOO

The only time I can really say a no contact order happened very quickly is in cases of severe and ongoing abuse,often sexual abuse... I would really not have thought of that in this case...but,I guess anything is possible ? MOO

Did LE examine the family's computers ? Maybe they found something on there ? It really is puzzling...JMO

i don't know but one page back gingerbread mentioned, as did i, that it may be simply to separate a child from the parent they feel is 'hindering the investigation' so that child can speak freely...

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_284272fb-80be-5d95-8b33-f3eb7b22b0f2.html


Pacheco said the move was driven by the ongoing investigation of Isabel's disappearance.

Police officers did not have to serve a temporary custody notice, he said.

That's when children are taken from their parents because they are endangered.

"We just wanted CPS to come in and perform an assessment based on information from detectives," he said."

i take that to mean they don't believe the children are in imminent physical danger...if it's based on the actual case, then it makes sense they want to separate the kids from the parent who wants them to keep quiet. IMO.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Regarding the video, I cannot make out what mom is saying, or what can be read into it regardless.

I am sure I was not alone, when I first heard of this case, in immediately assuming that the family was involved. Statistically this is almost always the case, and given the time of the disappearance it seems reasonable to conclude that it was her immediate family. This CPS thing seems to further support this.

My impression, unsuppoprted by research or evidence, is that these kinds of cases have become more common since Casey Anthony's trial. It seems to me (again, unsupported by evidence) that a number of people learned a 'valuable' lesson from that trial -- that if you simply hide the body well enough and keep your mouth shut you can get away with anything. And this is, of course, mostly true. For the most part it doesn't matter how ridiculous a story is or how many times the suspect changes it, it doesn't matter how outrageously a suspect behaves, unless the police recover the body quickly our TV trained juries are not going to convict. Sadly, thanks to the media attention Casey's trial provided, killers now know and are taking advantage of this.

Hopefully this case will be solved and we will see justice.

 

[cluciano63]

Is it possible the "no contact" is between the two adults? Was it spelled out that it was between one parent and the children, for sure?

 

[LisaB]

Dui, vapors (smoking weed), open container, kids in car, nurse with access to pills etc. Could Becky be fighting addiction? I dont know but it is as good a guess as those who think Sergio is somehow involved with the Mexican drug cartels and in deep enough debt to them that they would take his kid... (snip)
I am probably wrong.

That is a very real possibility. The only thing that dissuades me from that scenario is the way her hospital has jumped so fully onboard. But you might be on target.

Actually, I don't remember where I heard/read it, but it said that a representative from CPS sent to do a home visit can't tell if a parent is an addict unless they do not have access to their drug of choice. Apparently, many pill-addicted or alcoholic moms seem to be very good parents while drunk or high, but when they can't get drunk or high, they are more neglectful and have shorter tempers.

 

[Shelby2]

Are we quite sure about the no contact issue ? Quite sure this is true ? Because I'm baffled...I have cared for children in situations where one parent has tried to kill the other one,and the kids had regular visitation with both parents. Also, situations where one parent has been arrested for major drug charges.Still got contact with their kids. MOO

The only time I can really say a no contact order happened very quickly is in cases of severe and ongoing abuse,often sexual abuse... I would really not have thought of that in this case...but,I guess anything is possible ? MOO

Did LE examine the family's computers ? Maybe they found something on there ? It really is puzzling...JMO

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151198035.html?action=editcomment&cid=90564674&page=1

 

[Shelby2]

Is it possible the "no contact" is between the two adults? Was it spelled out that it was between one parent and the children, for sure?

Yes it was

 

[LisaB]

The parent who the protection order was filed against :moo:

This is Saturday. Certainly the boys have baseball games. If they show up with Becky, and Sergio is not there to coach, we know she has custody. If he is coaching and brings them to the game, he has custody. If they skip their game(s) we will have no new information.

 

[cluelessinNY]

This latest development makes me very sad for Isabel and leads me to believe that we will have a tragic ending to this story.

I have a couple of the scenerios that keep coming back to my mind. Both involve Isabel being sexually abused. Perhaps she was going to out her abuser and rather than let that happen, the abuser silenced her forever. Also, it's possible the abuser was also abusing the other children, and perhaps one of them let a detail slip to investigators while under the enormous stress. In order to protect the children and encourage them to speak further, this no contact order was issued. Or perhaps, Isabel was the only being abused and one of the children saw something and was threatened into silence. Again, under the stress the children are feeling, detail(s) came out.

There have been so many unanswered questions to the public from both LE and the family. We really didn't learn anything new from their interview with the Today show. Of course, there were a lot of bizarre statements but none of the important questions were answered, a lot of evading IMO.

I believe LE knows a lot more than we've given credit for and has been piecing this story. And everytime there is a presser, Pacheco keeps using the word "sensitive". This "sensitive" story is about break wide open, IMO.

Where is Isabel?

 

[cluciano63]

This latest development makes me very sad for Isabel and leads me to believe that we will have a tragic ending to this story.

I have a couple of the scenerios that keep coming back to my mind. Both involve Isabel being sexually abused. Perhaps she was going to out her abuser and rather than let that happen, the abuser silenced her forever. Also, it's possible the abuser was also abusing the other children, and perhaps one of them let a detail slip to investigators while under the enormous stress. In order to protect the children and encourage them to speak further, this no contact order was issued. Or perhaps, Isabel was the only being abused and one of the children saw something and was threatened into silence. Again, under the stress the children are feeling, detail(s) came out.

There have been so many unanswered questions to the public from both LE and the family. We really didn't learn anything new from their interview with the Today show. Of course, there were a lot of bizarre statements but none of the important questions were answered, a lot of evading IMO.

I believe LE knows a lot more than we've given credit for and has been piecing this story. And everytime there is a presser, Pacheco keeps using the word "sensitive". This "sensitive" story is about break wide open, IMO.

Where is Isabel?

I too think LE has had a handle on this case from the start...they have never moved too far outward from the family and the home, as should probably have been the case by now. And you are right, the word "sensitive" can take on a new meaning now.

 

[liz b.]

i don't know but one page back gingerbread mentioned, as did i, that it may be simply to separate a child from the parent they feel is 'hindering the investigation' so that child can speak freely...

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_284272fb-80be-5d95-8b33-f3eb7b22b0f2.html


Pacheco said the move was driven by the ongoing investigation of Isabel's disappearance.

Police officers did not have to serve a temporary custody notice, he said.

That's when children are taken from their parents because they are endangered.

"We just wanted CPS to come in and perform an assessment based on information from detectives," he said."

i take that to mean they don't believe the children are in imminent physical danger...if it's based on the actual case, then it makes sense they want to separate the kids from the parent who wants them to keep quiet. IMO.

Okay makes a lot more sense now... Except, both boys were interviewed some time ago ? So,it could be that one or both of the boys knows a lot more than they are saying about Isabel's disappearance ? And they have withheld that info ?

Wow...it almost sounds like someone will be getting fitted for an orange jumpsuit soon ?

 

[justbeachy]

This latest development is huge. For them to issue a no contact order vs supervised visitation, that tells me that what they have is significant and has some level of "proof" associated with it.

These boys have been traumatized enough by the loss of their sister. IMO, no law enforcement agency/CPS/FBI/ETC is going to rip away one of their parents unless it was absolutely necessary.

MOO