AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

[BetteDavisEyes]

Just caught up on overnight/morning posts. The report of previous CPS contacts is intriguing, to be sure. I wonder what tidbits will come out in today's presser? Time will tell.

 

[Shelby2]

AZlawyer...I don't question you know the law in your state but we don't know if it is an order, an agreement...etc.....
You offered your knowledge and I think others ran with it as a fact in this case......:banghead:

Yes I do take what AZlawyer said as fact, as I stated the agreement would be 90 days unless he chooses to fight it.
Here is the page where the discussion took place.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172284&page=2

 

[carole]

Furthermore, on the 911 call, the son did not say someone had slipped in, grabbed Isa, and snuck back out. He described something sounding a bit more like a "home invasion" which people have indicated is more typical of cartel violence. He definitely used words that sounded like he meant he had witnessed this happening and that it was chaotic. He also sounded a little scared.

BBM

The transcript says the brother said, "Hey, I need you guys to come down. My sister's gone uh, someone broke in and grabbed her." That doesn't sound to me like he saw what happened.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

 

[cluciano63]

I am guessing the PC today will be all about why this shouldn't taken too seriously...and nothing new about Isabel.

 

[Nvgirl]

ok wait...great point. this may have had nothing to do with isa at the time, but here's a random thought...JM moves into town and in two months gets three dee-wee's, so, indicative of his extra-curricular behavior...is staying with the C's...gets minorjunior involved in some not-so-great-stuff and is as a result reported truant by the high school...the C's kick out JM but by december the damage is done...CPS gets wind of it and has to visit the family.

when isa is reported missing, JM still feels guilty and wants to help "right" it by the C's so jumps on camera and tries to involve himself for redemption purposes. they of course tell him to stfu and he goes back to hiding under the couches he's surfing.

maybe? thoughts?

Yep i have thought that too. I just think that dating site Justin is on with that picture of Justin and Isa, it just makes me think he is infaxuated with her. He screams CREEPY to me.

 

[Donjeta]

If the family had witnessed cartel people breaking in and taking Isabel I'm not sure why they'd have gone searching in the neighborhood. If something like that happens the people aren't going to just leave the child with a neighbor or in the corner shop.

 

[txanmom]

ok wait...great point. this may have had nothing to do with isa at the time, but here's a random thought...JM moves into town and in two months gets three dee-wee's, so, indicative of his extra-curricular behavior...is staying with the C's...gets minorjunior involved in some not-so-great-stuff and is as a result reported truant by the high school...the C's kick out JM but by december the damage is done...CPS gets wind of it and has to visit the family.

when isa is reported missing, JM still feels guilty and wants to help "right" it by the C's so jumps on camera and tries to involve himself for redemption purposes. they of course tell him to stfu and he goes back to hiding under the couches he's surfing.

maybe? thoughts?

But why would SC get the no contact order/agreement?

 

[Shelby2]

I am guessing the PC today will be all about why this shouldn't taken too seriously...and nothing new about Isabel.

Me too. 'Don't read too much into the information we are releasing'.

??

 

[Madilu]

I have no experience with CPS and don't know of anyone that has. What are the types of things that someone might report? I've heard of CP being called for abusive situations in a home, either sexual, physical or mental. I would imagine someone might call if the kids were not being taken care of such as wearing dirty clothes, living in a dirty home or being outside on the street, etc. by themselves. Would people call if there was a lot of people coming and going at all hours? Would they call if they thought there was some type of criminal activity in the home? I'm not saying any of these things did happen in this case, I'm just truly curious as to other reasons for calling CPS.

I know of one lame instance CPS was called on a friend of mine who gave birth to triplets prematurely. The babies came early and she was still in the hospital (was there for a couple of weeks) and the nurse was going on and on about how cute preemie clothes were and my friend laughed and said she didn't have any of those... well DUH, they came early and she was in hospital! So the nurse reported to CPS that the mother had no clothes for her children and they came knocking a week or so after the family went home...because a "complaint" was made that she wasn't going to buy clothes for her babies.

Obviously by this time they had bought and been gifted a bunch of clothes... the whole thing was ridiculous and driven by some busy-body nurse drawing conclusions as if my friend would not get clothes for her kids when she was discharged. She had clothes already, just not small enough, since you don't automatically assume buying a bunch of preemie clothes. IYKWIM!!!!!

Needless to say that these are well-nourished, well dressed children in a nice, educated family that is hard working, and definitely with no criminal record of any sort! Unbelievable. All it takes is one judgmental know-it-all to cause problems for people.

 

[Prof]

BBM

The transcript says the brother said, "Hey, I need you guys to come down. My sister's gone uh, someone broke in and grabbed her." That doesn't sound to me like he saw what happened.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf

Thanks for the official transcript!


Yes, it does not sound like he saw or knew what happened to me either.

 

[AnaTeresa]

LE's statements on this case are becoming goofier and goofier. If they're tightening the screws, it's been the slowest I have ever seen in this type of case. If not, the way they've been contradicting each other and some of the odd, vague statements are really worrisome to me.

I'm hoping they have a plan behind this, because if they don't, I'm not liking where this is now starting to go.

 

[DhyanaAZ]

Sorry if it's been answered already, but we have been SPECULATING (in caps, so it's not misunderstood as a FACT) that the surveillance tape wasn't for the night AFTER she was taken (noting the absence of media and LE in the video) and instead was some evening PRIOR to her abuction.

I haven't seen that mentioned here myself, but i'm glad to read now that it has indeed been discussed. I haven't been able to figure out how that video could have been taken the night after her abduction, with those 5 people just casually strolling through command central and then the guy lurking off to the side without anyone noticing. So thank you thank you thank you for mentioning that it has been discussed here. I'm sure it's not a big deal, or really anything that should bother me, but when they announced the video footage was from the night of April 21st/morning of April 22nd it really made no sense to me at all, just like the Saturday Morning garbage pick up makes no sense to me. All JMO of course.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes I do take what AZlawyer said as fact, as I stated the agreement would be 90 days unless he chooses to fight it.
Here is the page where the discussion took place.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172284&page=2

Thanks for linking AZlawyers post.

So I am wondering if the other complaint may have been about neglecting one of the children...letting them do something dangerous and not stopping them.

And if that was the case back in December with Isa now being kidnapped under Sergio's watch (although I do think she was gone from the home much earlier when Becky was still inside the home) could CPS think he is a danger to his children by not taking care of them as he should?

imo

 

[Nvgirl]

But why would SC get the no contact order/agreement?

Maybe they are taking this really seriously because of the Josh Powell case, maybe he is #1. Suicidal and keeps saying he wants to die for not protecting his family. Or #2. Cps thinks he has put his boys in jeoperdy for the drug cartel or drug ring to come back and take the boys next, maybe they have threatned him if law enforcement get involved they will be back:-(

 

[CarrieBean]

The only scenarios that makes sense to me is that either something bad happened to Isabel and she was removed by someone in that home

...or that Isabel was removed by one of the parents alive to prevent the other from taking her because a break-up was imminent

...or Isabel was removed from the home alive to prevent CPS from taking her or to keep her from telling CPS any details.

I hope it's the 2nd scenario.

 

[LisaB]

I do not get it,
We first heard that Becky went to work as a nurse on the morning of April 21, and that Sergio went to wake their little Isa around 8 a.m., only to find her bed empty and a screen knocked out of her bedroom window. Now we're hearing the couple doesn't live in the same house? Less than a month after the girl disappeared?
CPS considers Sergio a serious enough threat to his older kids that he's been barred from being around them,
I do believe this whole tragic case may be bringing to light other issues inside the Celis household.
If mom still believes dad had nothing to do with her disappearance, why are they living apart?They were clinging on to each other in the interviews,showing the perfect american family, hmmmm

Because they made an agreement with CPS thatthe mom would have custody of the boys and that Sergio was to have no contact with the boys. How would you propose she live with him, yet keep the boys from ANY CONTACT (not a phone call or a letter even) with Sergio?

A few people spoke of the recent Josh Powell incident in which he was given supervised visitation of his sons and killed them and himself during a visit. I am reminded of a case that happened closer to (my) home, in September of 1999. A woman (I know her personally) got a restraining order against her abusive husband, and left him with their 3 year old and 2 year old. He was given unsupervised visitation, and, in spite of the restraining order, managed to obtain a firearm. He had the kids in his car and claimed he picked up a hitch-hiker on the way to Ocean City with the children. As he was driving across Malkus Bridge, he claimed the hitchhiker pulled a gun and carjacked him, forcing him to jump from the bridge. The children were found shot to death in the car, and no indication of a hitch-hiker or carjacker was found.

He survived the jump from the bridge, and was tried, convicted and sentenced. He was killed in prison a few years ago. His wife, Lisa, went on to become an advocate for abuse victims and was instrumental in putting in place laws that prevent anyone with an RO from obtaining a gun. She went on to have more children.

http://tialincoln.hubpages.com/hub/...killed-their-own-kids-Richard-Wayne-Spicknall

(As a side note, has anyone noticed how many violent men have the middle name "Wayne"?)

 

[Nvgirl]

I wish they would give us more info so we dont have to throw these crazy scenerios around... Urrrr

 

[AnaTeresa]

Thanks for linking AZlawyers post.

So I am wondering if the other complaint may have been about neglecting one of the children...letting them do something dangerous and not stopping them.

And if that was the case back in December with Isa now being kidnapped under Sergio's watch (although I do think she was gone from the home much earlier when Becky was still inside the home) could CPS think he is a danger to his children by not taking care of them as he should?

imo

But if that was the case - WHY wait three weeks before stepping in with the no contact suggestion? It truly makes no sense. If CPS was involved with this family in December, I would have expected them to jump right on this when it happened.

 

[txanmom]

I know of one lame instance CPS was called on a friend of mine who gave birth to triplets prematurely. The babies came early and she was still in the hospital (was there for a couple of weeks) and the nurse was going on and on about how cute preemie clothes were and my friend laughed and said she didn't have any of those... well DUH, they came early and she was in hospital! So the nurse reported to CPS that the mother had no clothes for her children and they came knocking a week or so after the family went home...because a "complaint" was made that she wasn't going to buy clothes for her babies.

Obviously by this time they had bought and been gifted a bunch of clothes... the whole thing was ridiculous and driven by some busy-body nurse drawing conclusions as if my friend would not get clothes for her kids when she was discharged. She had clothes already, just not small enough, since you don't automatically assume buying a bunch of preemie clothes. IYKWIM!!!!!

Needless to say that these are well-nourished, well dressed children in a nice, educated family that is hard working, and definitely with no criminal record of any sort! Unbelievable. All it takes is one judgmental know-it-all to cause problems for people.

I agree, that could happen and it was silly. But, in this case, they said there was "contacts" plural and then recently the voluntary no contact agreement was requested by CPS. There are at least now 2 CPS involvements and that is leading to some sort of pattern of investigation into this family. MOO/JMO

 

[white rabbit]

But why would SC get the no contact order/agreement?

not sure they're even related...but if they ARE:

after december, minorjunior isn't quite out of the woods due to the 'exposure' that JM gave him...the C's are busy with the other two, work, sports, community...it's normal for a tween/teen to have a little more freedom these days and unwanted at that.

now, IF (big IF, only speculation IMO JMO MOO) SC has any ties or connections with ANY member or acquaintance of a cartel/FF/local yokel dealer...minorjunior is technically still "exposed" to this activity.

when RC said "we have nothing to hide" maybe she meant that any prior CPS or drug/etc. exposure was not their fault but that of JM's or another person in their lives...she wasn't lying, in her mind...

yet isa goes missing...CPS, having a family file already, has to check and make sure JM's no longer in the picture (hence why the C's were like "shut UP") but they still found perhaps a link between SC and a potential continuance of the problem. after the 911's are released, CPS says "all bets are off we have to separate you from your son now"...SC agrees because he wants no suspicion cast on minorjunior...

kwim? IMO JMO MOO. i'm not citing any rumors here nor am i sleuthing a minor...just trying to put some of the pieces into the puzzle given the few facts we have...