AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

[CHICANA]

I do not get it,
We first heard that Becky went to work as a nurse on the morning of April 21, and that Sergio went to wake their little Isa around 8 a.m., only to find her bed empty and a screen knocked out of her bedroom window. Now we're hearing the couple doesn't live in the same house? Less than a month after the girl disappeared?
CPS considers Sergio a serious enough threat to his older kids that he's been barred from being around them,
I do believe this whole tragic case may be bringing to light other issues inside the Celis household.
If mom still believes dad had nothing to do with her disappearance, why are they living apart?
They were clinging on to each other in the interviews,showing the perfect american family, hmmmm

I believe they're living apart because of CPS told them that they had to or they were removing the kids.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I do not get it,
We first heard that Becky went to work as a nurse on the morning of April 21, and that Sergio went to wake their little Isa around 8 a.m., only to find her bed empty and a screen knocked out of her bedroom window. Now we're hearing the couple doesn't live in the same house? Less than a month after the girl disappeared?
CPS considers Sergio a serious enough threat to his older kids that he's been barred from being around them,
I do believe this whole tragic case may be bringing to light other issues inside the Celis household.
If mom still believes dad had nothing to do with her disappearance, why are they living apart?
They were clinging on to each other in the interviews,showing the perfect american family, hmmmm

I think we are only hearing a small piece of what was going on in that family. And you know, no family is without its problems but when this little girl goes missing under such strange circumstances, of course one must consider that it was an inside job.

I am trying to catch up on the reading and hearing about drugs, weapons, all these other theories, I think the neighbors can shed some light on traffic that might have been going in and out of that house. My thinking, if it IS a stranger abduction, is that it was someone who had come in and out of the house for something, something maybe illegal.

As far as the neighbor, I wouldn't totally discount what she's saying. Neighbors are nosey and they will notice if there are people going in and out of the house that don't live there. When I lived in San Diego, I lived in front of a big meth dealer house and people were in and out of there all the time. The cops didn't want to do anything about it but all the neighbors knew by how the people looked and the activity. I always looked the other way because I lived alone with my little daughter.

I don't know what to think anymore but the one thing that has bothered me from the beginning is the father saying something about 'naming your price' in the press conference. What would make him think she was taken for a price instead of just some sicko nut job that wants a little child to molest, which is more likely the case? This always stood out in my mind.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I admit I am at a loss and puzzled by the latest news of the CPS incident in December of last year.

Whatever it was at that time Sergio was not removed from his home nor is there any record that LE arrested him for this incident. The only records I have seen to do with the children are Beckys and the child endangerment while DUI.

So imo, Isa was right there in December and if there had been an allegation of sexual abuse of Isa CPS would have had her checked out by a doctor immediately to see if she had been molested. So I dont think it has to do with Isa.

But could Sergio have a drinking problem? I wondered if this was around Christmastime. and if he does, can he become emotionally abusive to the boys. Some coaches can be overly hard on their own children who play sports and some dads seem to be much harder on their boys in general than their daughters.

It is now been since May 11th that he agreed to leave his home. He has not been arrested for any crime or that would have hit the news in neon lights and is seen coming and going where he lives.

That is what leaves me puzzled because when CPS and LE is aware of abusive acts toward children they will arrest the abusive parent and forceably remove him from the home and not give him an option to agree. They would go with the testimony of the child or children and also Becky who lived there plus any physical examinations.

imo

 

[curiousc]

I admit I am at a loss and puzzled by the latest news of the CPS incident in December of last year.

Whatever it was at that time Sergio was not removed from his home nor is there any record that LE arrested him for this incident. The only records I have seen to do with the children are Beckys and the child endangerment while DUI.

So imo, Isa was right there in December and if there had been an allegation of sexual abuse of Isa CPS would have had her checked out by a doctor immediately to see if she had been molested. So I dont think it has to do with Isa.

But could Sergio have a drinking problem? I wondered if this was around Christmastime. and if he does, can he become emotionally abusive to the boys. Some coaches can be overly hard on their own children who play sports and some dads seem to be much harder on their boys in general than their daughters.

It is now been since May 11th that he agreed to leave his home. He has not been arrested for any crime or that would have hit the news in neon lights and is seen coming and going where he lives.

That is what leaves me puzzled because when CPS and LE is aware of abusive acts toward children they will arrest the abusive parent and forceably remove him from the home and not give him an option to agree. They would go with the testimony of the child or children and also Becky who lived there plus any physical examinations.

imo

Not if it wasn't an allegation made by Isa but some other child.

ETA: CPS could still be investigating an allegation such as this too. Perhaps, if it was an allegation case, they are still involved and collecting evidence.

And, then Isa goes missing and it looks mighty suspicious.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not if it wasn't an allegation made by Isa but some other child.

CPS would follow up with the same procedures no matter who made the allegation.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not if it wasn't an allegation made by Isa but some other child.

ETA: CPS could still be investigating an allegation such as this too. Perhaps, if it was an allegation case, they are still involved and collecting evidence.

And, then Isa goes missing and it looks mighty suspicious.

IMO

Over 5 months later and no resolution?

I cant believe that if it is an allegation concerning a child.

IMO

 

[diamond12]

I wondered what happened. I sent someone a link to it and half an hour later the site had gone down. I emailed the contact address, but never heard back.

The owner closed the page for personal reasons. I found a blog post (from a member of the page) and the owner commented under it about her reasons for doing so.
Someone else (sorry I forgot the name) wrote about it in the Sierra Lamar thread and confirmed it.
I was very surprised to see the page suddenly gone!
Looks like it won't be back.

 

[curiousc]

CPS would follow up with the same procedures no matter who made the allegation.

I do not agree. They did not when it came to my friend's situation.

Like I said though, they did go behind my friend's back and interview her kids at school. If the kids had said something that alerted CPS then perhaps they may have done a test, but nothing nefarious were going on with her kids.

Allegations are often made that are not true and CPS has to speak to individuals before doing such things as tests on the children and putting them through undue stress.

IMO

 

[curiousc]

Over 5 months later and no resolution?

I cant believe that if it is an allegation concerning a child.

IMO

If there is no evidence substantiating the allegation, the file remains open. And, once again, in my friend's situation, it went on months and months.

 

[tlcya]

"The earlier case, we are aware of that," Pacheco said. "I don't know if they were open or closed, but there were previous CPS contacts."

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...9a3-5df6-a4f1-163f280fad8f.html#ixzz1v8LzldHT

very confusing. the use of "case" indicating one and then in the same sentence the speaker discusses not knowing if "they" were open or closed indicating cases plural.

As to the cartel theorizing. I just don't see it yet. If Isa was taken in an effort to control SG then I would think the very last thing he would want is LE involvement. That would put Isa further at risk for harm. I have been turning this theory round and examining it from all angles for a few days now and it is just not setting for me.

 

[Lava]

Over 5 months later and no resolution?

I cant believe that if it is an allegation concerning a child.

IMO

I have seen longer. I don't think anything can be ruled out when it comes to why CPS left the children in that home. CPS makes mistakes, and CPS can't always prove things. But the fact is, CPS investigated this family, and now a little girl from that house is missing.

 

[Donjeta]

"The earlier case, we are aware of that," Pacheco said. "I don't know if they were open or closed, but there were previous CPS contacts."

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...9a3-5df6-a4f1-163f280fad8f.html#ixzz1v8LzldHT

very confusing. the use of "case" indicating one and then in the same sentence the speaker discusses not knowing if "they" were open or closed indicating cases plural.

As to the cartel theorizing. I just don't see it yet. If Isa was taken in an effort to control SG then I would think the very last thing he would want is LE involvement. That would put Isa further at risk for harm. I have been turning this theory round and examining it from all angles for a few days now and it is just not setting for me.

Was there a reporter asking him if the police are aware that there was an earlier CPS contact?

 

[txanmom]

"The earlier case, we are aware of that," Pacheco said. "I don't know if they were open or closed, but there were previous CPS contacts."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_8a0e22a3-f9a3-5df6-a4f1-163f280fad8f.html

"Rebecca: We don't have anything to hide. Say what you want to say. We are confident we had nothing to do with it. Go for it. We are strong enough to take it and there is nothing you are going to find on us. Go for it."

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/150175035.html

bbm. you sure about that, RC?

rbbm - contacts plural! more than one previous?

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I have never had any CPS contact in 14+ years of raising children. MOO

 

[liz b.]

Had always wondered about prior CPS contact. IMO this may well be where the NG "reports " about Isabel sleeping with her brothers came from.

It also states in the newspaper article that there were prior "contacts", plural. I wonder if the Celis family had open CPS cases at the time that Isabel was disappeared ?

JMO

 

[LisaB]

After some careful google earth fly over navigating and looking at veiw angles, I might have a possible lead to ponder.... There is a Computer Repair Shop in the shopping center to the NorthEast of the Celis residence with a good veiw from the rear of the store. It's not that unusual for a pc tech to be at work at all hours of the night working to get stuff done and they might have been stalking the home... never know when it comes to techie's..

IIRC, that shop is directly adjacent to Moore Security. Moore Security turned over surveillance tapes to LE from a camera that points in the direction of the Celis' house. He installed the camera to watch employee cars parked in the rear of the store. On the morning of the 21st, it picked up Sergio and his oldest son walking around at approximately 8am, presumably looking for Isabel.

Any store in that strip center that is closer to the corner would have its view obstructed by the 1½ story structure located in between the strip center and the Celis's on the opposite side of 12th.

Any business in that strip that is further from the corner would have a better view of the front of the Celis' home from the rear door. Most retail businesses ask that their employees smoke behind the store as opposed to outside the front entrance.

 

[TxLady2]

CPS was called back in december.
this is not recent its been ongowing.

Im saying maybe school or neighbors might have reported them cause the kids were unkept or looked dirty. So Cps comes and sees and maybe tells the they have to take better care......

I do not think its anything very serious in nature otherwise the children would have been taken from them before.

This is why i think he made mention of the showers and mom her hair!

Its just an opinion! i cant think of anything else.
all her pics she looks ok but i saw a video of the dog and boy oh boy that was some sorry lookin animal...

All just my opinion!

You may have a point. Many times guilty persons will add details that are unnecessary to make themselves look better. It would be interesting to find out if the school ever reported any signs of neglect.
I keep thinking about the missing teeth... one on the bottom and one on the top. My experience raising kids and being one myself, I thought that was kind of unusual. Typically, kids lose the two front teeth together, more commonly the bottom first, then the top, but not always. It just sounded strange to have one from each missing at the same time. She could have got one knocked out by a baseball... OR maybe rough-housing with her brothers. Who knows? But little things like that could be significant... or may mean nothing. It's a valid point, anyway.

 

[LisaB]

I don't think LE has ever officially named Lisa Irwin's case a homicide, have they? If so, I missed it. I know the warrants said they the cadaver dog hit in the bedroom. So if they didn't/don't call it a homicide, I guess the same could be going on here. JMO

I do not know if this is even possible, but I believe someone stated that an HRD dog may alert on a dirty diaper, or a place a dirty diaper sat. Since Lisa was still in diapers, it would be difficult to say the dog detected her remains, rather than someplace she sat or was changed.

 

[LisaB]

I thought somebody said office max was closed down on another thread. Not sure but it just has to happen to be probably NO CAMERAS on that night on that house. Sad story!

It is Circuit City (the building with the red "box" on top) that closed.

 

[LisaB]

THe best camera view would be from the OM about 50 yards (a guess) from the Celis backyard?

Here's a possible scenario...(albeit a late night scenario) Maybe someone from that OM mall next door was watching Isa on surveilance, watching her for weeks play in her backyard. The week before the perp planned to take her, the perp befriended the dogs letting them loose, and the perp made sure to have changed the cameras' view just enough to not capture what perp was about to do the next week. Then, the night before Isa went missing, the perp stayed late a few hours after the store (any store) closed to scope out just who might be walking around or awake by around 1:30 am, the time he planned to take her the next night. This perp would be the shadowy figure in the mistaken date surveilance we were given. This perp made sure that the closest cameras, the ones that would show the Celis backyard, were pointed elsewhere for the night in question. I really don't think this is what happened, but it is a possibility.

The odd thing is that there were cameras in the church parking lot, cameras in the mall directly next door's parking lot, and then of course Moore Security a block away, and none of them seem to have caught the crime taking place.

Why would he return to the scene of the crime the following night at the same time (as seen on video)? Especially since media and LE were everywhere, and he was lurking right near the "Command Center". That doesn't add up for me.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Over 5 months later and no resolution?

I cant believe that if it is an allegation concerning a child.

IMO

Sorry, I probably haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, but cannot understand this post. :coffeews:

CPS would investigate only allegations concerning children, wouldn't they? What else could they have responsibility in investigating?

My concern is heightened greatly by the news of CPS's earlier involvement since December. I'm curious what the allegations might be but no matter whether they are of a sexual/physical abuse nature, lack of supervision, drug/alcohol use, etc, etc, etc ~ any of those would put Isa at risk. The fact that there is a history of prior CPS involvement with this family doesn't bode well for Isa.

I have to say SC is looking more and more suspicious each day. I've hit my personal limit with (my own) explanations trying to excuse strange actions that seem to surround him. This newest revelation of prior CPS involvement has tipped my scales.

:cow:​