AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Stash777]

In looking at the photos posted of the Celis property wall and fence I remembered there being discussed the point I illustrated below.. The large black garbage can(fyi this garbage can DID NOT have wheels at its base) that was located at the position marked below.. Also the red rectangle is made to represent closely the size of the garbage can in relation to the lowest portion of the wall where it was positioned.. IMO this could represent a very easy access point onto the Celis property.. But I am in no way claiming this to be THE actual access point rather only looking at what are the many possibilities in the where/how aspect of someone able to access the property..
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Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

I was thinking along the lines of an exit point, so to speak. From my perspective, I think it includes all theories being discussed (whether immediate family involvement, stranger abduction, extended family, cartel etc.) MOO. I understand what you're saying though.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Is it a for sure fact that he did return back from the ball game with Isabel?

IMO yes it is for sure that he returned home with Isa after the ball game due to the fact we have Becky stating that AFTER the late night games and immediately prior to Isa going to bed that Becky had done Isa's hair in ponytail braids so that her hair would already be done in preparation for Isa's Saturday morning game.. This IMO was done that night rather than Saturday morning because mom, Becky would not be home that following morning when Isa got up and went to her game due to Becky having to work an early morning shift at the hospital..jmo


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

This is the best I can do.

Do these gates open OUT to the alley, or IN towards the enclosed yard?
:waitasec:

 

[pieper4]

Re: the City of Tucson trash cans. Those typically don't have flat lids and are somewhat flimsy lids to boot. Not saying someone couldn't stand on a full one, but they are kind of domed... with recesses. Going to see if I can find an image. Since I can't come up with the proper words. LOL.

ETA: best I can locate

The tops are floppy-ish and not very rigid.

 

[fancyface]

I personally feel that once LE and CPS started questioning the 2 brothers, something about this family came out, but the boys were scared that if their Dad found out they told he would harm them, and this is the reason for the no contact as well as I have felt from the beginning that LE knows much much more about this family then we could even theorize and I do feel that they have been trying to put pressure on Dad, I can't figure out why Isa would have slept in her brothers room most night, I have so e ideas why, does that seem odd to anyone else? Also should SC friend Joe that was on NG tonight be giving him updates on the boys even if it is just a ball game?

My thoughts exactly put into words!! Why was she sleeping in brothers room most nights?? hmm , could be so they could watch her while they were gone? its odd to me.

 

[Curious Me]

I imagine if SC's car had traveled any distance and then back before the 911 calls, it would still be warm to the touch. The couch he slept on might still be warm. Oh, can you tell I'm stumped how Isabel was taken from the house with all those people in it.

 

[katydid23]

My thoughts exactly put into words!! Why was she sleeping in brothers room most nights?? hmm , could be so they could watch her while they were gone? its odd to me.

Or maybe she liked to sleep in her brothers room so that nobody could sneak into her room at night and 'bother' her.

 

[fancyface]

I imagine if SC's car had traveled any distance and then back before the 911 calls, it would still be warm to the touch. The couch he slept on might still be warm. Oh, can you tell I'm stumped how Isabel was taken from the house with all those people in it.

possibly someone else involved? that went through window, and I still do not believe sergio slept that night.

 

[pieper4]

Do these gates open OUT to the alley, or IN towards the enclosed yard?
:waitasec:

The hinges are on the outside in the photo so the gates open out. (unless they have some schmancy hinges, which doesn't appear to be the case).

 

[cluciano63]

I think the neighbor said she could not understand what the voices were saying, not that they were speaking in a language she did not understand...JMO

 

[Mjskit]

Reading a news headline on AOL - Huffington Post. You all should read the comments. Very interesting indeed. I can not do a link and I don't know if WS allows it. Just read the comments.

 

[Curious Me]

IMO yes it is for sure that he returned home with Isa after the ball game due to the fact we have Becky stating that AFTER the late night games and immediately prior to Isa going to bed that Becky had done Isa's hair in ponytail braids so that her hair would already be done in preparation for Isa's Saturday morning game.. This IMO was done that night rather than Saturday morning because mom, Becky would not be home that following morning when Isa got up and went to her game due to Becky having to work an early morning shift at the hospital..jmo


____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

Did anybody else outside the family see them come home from the ball game? Suppose LE didn't want to take Becky's word for it, or the whole family's - is there any other way to prove the events presented on those 911 calls were proven facts?

 

[johnQpublic]

possibly someone else involved? that went through window, and I still do not believe sergio slept that night.

I highly doubt he slept either... personally I think he got twacked out with uncle Justin.

 

[pieper4]

Not our alley containers, but same construction. Can't hyperlink the actual photo as it's protected. The large blue ones (ours are dark green or black here) Beverly Hills Alley | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[cluciano63]

I am doubtful about those comments on the HP article...that does not fit with what LE is actually saying and doing, IMO...

 

[Mjskit]

I am doubtful about those comments on the HP article...that does not fit with what LE is actually saying and doing, IMO...

I don't know--- LE did notify Mexico.

 

[Curious Me]

I highly doubt he slept either... personally I think he got twacked out with uncle Justin.

Hmm...maybe Isabel had trouble sleeping, and he had to take her with him to some party or to buy some stuff, left her in the car, someone took her, but he had to lie about it to save custody and his marriage.

I've stretched my imagination to the max now.

 

[gitana1]

I think the whole "voluntary" agreement is akin to being asked for your resignation; if you say no, you still get canned and have lost your chance to save face.

JMO, but no way did SC "volunteer" to have zero contact with those boys unless he was told by CPS that they would take the kids into custody if he did not.

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I agree 100%.

Oh so this did not come from LE today at the PC?

I thought it was some big breaking info they gave the public today and that is why there is so much discussion about Isa using crayons to write on her closet wall. Bet that wasnt the only walls she wrote on either. LOL

I had a real problem writing on walls at that age. It got so bad that my mom told me I couldn't go to much anticipated Bluebirds (like Brownies) sleepover. I was so naughty! I also liked to put pieces of tape and bandaids all over my closet. Kids are weird.

Someone needs to call "ADULT" protective services on me,because I'm 56 yo and I keep track of my soon to be 13 yo DDs height on my kitchen wall with a BLACK PERMANENT MARKER.
Why? cause I can!! HEE HEE

I do the same with one of my brother-in-laws. I have three of them and the one was not growing. He felt bad. So, I tracked his progress right on the frame of a doorway leading from the living room to the hall. I don't ever want to paint it!

Here is an interesting article out of Tucson about the way CPS and LE work together when they feel children are in danger as well as reasons that CPS would get involved.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/pats-bits-and-bytes/

Excellent read. So, it seems like we are most likely looking at domestic violence or drug or alcohol problems as the reason CPS would get so involved. I agree with whoever stated this might be a pressure tactic to some degree.

I thought CV said that both parents have fully cooperated from day one and LE talks with both of them everyday.

It is an unwinnable situation. If they appeared a 100 times they would be criticized a 100 times over.

Do you really think the person who took Isa almost a month ago is going to return her if the Celis plead for her safe return? I dont. I have only seen that happen one time in Canada but I cant remember one case in the states where it ever worked.

IMO

I completely get what you are saying. It's true, either way they will be bashed. But as I have said before, the parents being in front of cameras puts Isabel in front of the cameras and such publicity helps solve some of these cases.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18499438/number-of-isabel-celis-volunteers-drops

Number of volunteers is down to almost nothing and still, the parents say nothing. There is nothing bad enough in the world that people could think, say, or post about me that would keep me from being present and visible to he media and public, all the time, in this situation. Case after case, we see the adults hiding out while a baby is missing. It is disgusting, IMO.

I agree. It does make me suspicious although I keep thinking of little Emmett Trapp's mom begging a reporter not to publicize the story of her 2 year old's disappearance. he was later found dead in the AZ heat after having wandered barefoot from his home for miles, his little footsteps circling in dried mud where he was found dead. He had slipped out while mom napped and his siblings played.

Actually, I'm just sitting here thinking about that very thing. I had a very bad childhood, had an abusive mother, she was always on some type of drug and had some very high expectations for me. When I would bring home a B instead of an A, she would lock me in the closet, with a small light and my homework and wouldn't let me out until I was finished. I NEVER wrote on a wall, I didn't dare or I'd be picking up my teeth for a month. This being said, we didn't know about CPS back in those days, I'm 58. Now, from what I gather from Sergio saying that when they got back to the home Isa's writings were all over the walls and it reminded him of her being there and that was difficult, so, I'm just not certain how to take this writing on the wall inside her closet.

I'm sorry to hear you went through that. :grouphug:

When did the word "scrawled" start being used? I never heard the reporter ask anything about walls, or "scrawled on the walls" etc. etc.

I love you PattyG! You keep things on track!!

[

I'm new to your site and my head is spinning just trying to catch up.

Tonight there have been many comments about the supposed writing on the wall inside Isabel's closet. Earlier, there was speculation on how the media could know about this (assuming it's even true). I think someone said that maybe a relative told someone who told someone and the information spread.

I thought that maybe a member of the cleaning crew noticed it and tipped off the media. Becky did make a point of saying that they needed the house cleaned because of the fingerprint dust and chemicals (especially in Isa and the boy's bedrooms). It would be interesting to know what else the cleaning crew saw. They may be the only ones other than family and LE to be in the Celis home, since the disappearance.

My other thought involves the use of the word "abduct" and if that tells us anything about Isa being taken alive or dead. An AP interview (published on May 15) with Sgt Hawke states the following:

Hawke: "There is no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own. She left through the power, through assistance of someone else; either somebody took her or, um, ENTICED HER OUT OF THE RESIDENCE in some shape or form. And for that reason we cannot just say that she, you know, got up and walked out"

If LE does believe it's possible that someone "enticed her out of the residence" then they must consider that she may have been alive at the time of the "abduction".

I have a youtube link for the video of this interview but I don't know if we are allowed to post it. Is there an explanation somewhere of what links are and are not allowed? Not social media. But many of the news interviews/pressers are easier to find on youtube than at their original source.

:greetings::fireworks:
You can post youtube videos of interviews and things. There is a thread on the rules. I will link it in a moment.

Reading a news headline on AOL - Huffington Post. You all should read the comments. Very interesting indeed. I can not do a link and I don't know if WS allows it. Just read the comments.

You can link to MSM articles like this one.

 

[pieper4]

Local color here.. of no significant importance. Was at dinner at my Dad's house tonight with two of his former LE friends here in Tucson. I wasn't even in the room when the conversation arose and did not provide any input. Theory from these two? Abduction due to cartel/debt.

Granted, they are retired LE. But that seems to be a pervasive theory at least amongst those I encounter.

 

[bessie]

I'm new to your site and my head is spinning just trying to catch up.

Tonight there have been many comments about the supposed writing on the wall inside Isabel's closet. Earlier, there was speculation on how the media could know about this (assuming it's even true). I think someone said that maybe a relative told someone who told someone and the information spread.

I thought that maybe a member of the cleaning crew noticed it and tipped off the media. Becky did make a point of saying that they needed the house cleaned because of the fingerprint dust and chemicals (especially in Isa and the boy's bedrooms). It would be interesting to know what else the cleaning crew saw. They may be the only ones other than family and LE to be in the Celis home, since the disappearance.

My other thought involves the use of the word "abduct" and if that tells us anything about Isa being taken alive or dead. An AP interview (published on May 15) with Sgt Hawke states the following:

Hawke: "There is no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own. She left through the power, through assistance of someone else; either somebody took her or, um, ENTICED HER OUT OF THE RESIDENCE in some shape or form. And for that reason we cannot just say that she, you know, got up and walked out"

If LE does believe it's possible that someone "enticed her out of the residence" then they must consider that she may have been alive at the time of the "abduction".

I have a youtube link for the video of this interview but I don't know if we are allowed to post it. Is there an explanation somewhere of what links are and are not allowed? Not social media. But many of the news interviews/pressers are easier to find on youtube than at their original source.

Welcome, Kat77! Yes, you can post Youtube links of mainstream media (MSM) reports. We don't have a complete list of unacceptable sites because it varies with each case. Just know if you post a link and it looks like this: "www dot *********** dot com", it's a banned link and you should edit your post to remove it ASAP. Otherwise, your entire post might go poof. Stick with MSM and you'll be fine.

ETA: When in doubt about a specific site, just pm a mod before you post.

--->>>The Rulez

:welcome3:
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