AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[callyn]

IIRC, she said that she checked her phone...MOO

Always wondered how she was able to hear the men "talking in low voices ". Because she also said that both her dogs and the Celis' dogs were going crazy, and barking.A lot... Just a thought...

Also, IIRC, at one time she said she thought it might be people taking a walk. It seems that it got more specific as time went on, more like "men outside Isa's window" rather than "thought it might be people taking a walk".

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/26/key-witness-isabel-celis-disappearance

 

[Dr. Know?]

It's called a double drive gate. Common throughout the city & surrounding areas. Many have them. It's to drive a larger vehicle through, etc..

 

[liz b.]

Correct, but even still, if Sergio alone harmed her and moved her in theory, did he leave in the night without his other 3 family members knowing, or in the morning between RC leaving and the 911 call? In the day, any pedestrian, car in traffic, garbage workers, cameras would have seen his car leave. At night, possibly any late night pedestrians, night traffic, or cameras. Someone has to know if he left his home between everyone getting ready for bed and the 911 call. If he didn't, then in order for him to be involved, someone would have had to come to the house and take her body away.

Exactly. Somewhere along the line I came to the sad realization that it was very possible that both parents were involved...JMO

 

[Stash777]

Can you look down when walking that route, specifically in front of that big gate to see if it's been being opened and closed on a regular basis? Maybe scrapes from the boards on concrete or scrapes in dirt or gravel or whatever's there on the ground.

This is the best I can do.

 

[mamamia54]

I'll try, give me a minute to check.

I just looked, it doesn't seem like the gate has been opened or closed lately, in looking at the google earth image. Just wondered. See what you think.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

IF Isabel scrawled on her wall...it MAY be important only because SHE happens to be missing...JMO

Regarding children writing on walls...furniture... under tables...anything that stays still longer than 1 second...

Yes... my daughter loved to use markers on any or all of these places. Thank goodness they were highlight markers, and most of the "works de art" eventually faded away.

(She also like to cut off her Barbies' hair, and her (real) kitty's fur... don't ask me why.)

However...some therapists find it a useful tool to have minor clients draw specific scenarios to use as a means of analysis. (You may recall the "House, Tree, Family" exercise?)

I recognize that random coloring on walls, and the location of the "art" may mean that the child is just that.. a child who likes to express him/herself.

However... there are some signs to watch for in supposedly "random" drawings...all black, Van Gogh-ish harsh strokes, violent and/or sexual content, etc.

Soooo with this rambling.....In summary.......

If there was any of Isa's coloring on the walls of the house, chances are that it was a child's innocent activity.

But... since THIS child has disappeared, you can bet I would be most interested to see the content and style of the writing/pix.

JMO

 

[mamamia54]

I just looked, it doesn't seem like the gate has been opened or closed lately, in looking at the google earth image. Just wondered. See what you think.

If you look at the dirt, doesn't seem as if it's been opened or closed.

 

[Stash777]

It's called a double drive gate. Common throughout the city & surrounding areas. Many have them. It's to drive a larger vehicle through, etc..

I've seen these here in CA, too. I just thought this scenario might be possible since we have no information on anything coming from surveillance videos (outside St. Joes). That's another angle I was thinking about...regardless of the date for the initial released video, I am starting to think LE may have been asking those in the video if they had seen anything on the side of the house (where the gate is) if no other videos showed anything definitive. MOO

 

[Deleted member 718]

LisaB said" Sergio specifically mentioning that everyone took showers.
clipped most except for above,

Anyone wonder, how can 5 people take a shower in so little time, supposedly they got home around 10:30. The time thing to me is SOOOO way off :banghead:

My guess: Since there are two baths in the home, Isa and Becky shower first. They get dressed, braid hair while the boys have a shower. I assume Sergio is watching the ball game and plans to shower in the am.

Nighty night all. Hasta manana. :seeya:

 

[Dr. Know?]

if there are drop rods on the inside of the gates (inside their yard) that go into the ground (6" or more) via a pipe in the ground, the drop rod will stop it from being opened from the outside & even inside unless the drop rods are lifted up (usually rebar). I see the outside picture of the fence. The inside would help. We have in the back of our property a dd gate that I want replaced similar to that one.

 

[kat77]

I'm new to your site and my head is spinning just trying to catch up.

Tonight there have been many comments about the supposed writing on the wall inside Isabel's closet. Earlier, there was speculation on how the media could know about this (assuming it's even true). I think someone said that maybe a relative told someone who told someone and the information spread.

I thought that maybe a member of the cleaning crew noticed it and tipped off the media. Becky did make a point of saying that they needed the house cleaned because of the fingerprint dust and chemicals (especially in Isa and the boy's bedrooms). It would be interesting to know what else the cleaning crew saw. They may be the only ones other than family and LE to be in the Celis home, since the disappearance.

My other thought involves the use of the word "abduct" and if that tells us anything about Isa being taken alive or dead. An AP interview (published on May 15) with Sgt Hawke states the following:

Hawke: "There is no indication whatsoever that Isabel just got up and left the house on her own. She left through the power, through assistance of someone else; either somebody took her or, um, ENTICED HER OUT OF THE RESIDENCE in some shape or form. And for that reason we cannot just say that she, you know, got up and walked out"

If LE does believe it's possible that someone "enticed her out of the residence" then they must consider that she may have been alive at the time of the "abduction".

I have a youtube link for the video of this interview but I don't know if we are allowed to post it. Is there an explanation somewhere of what links are and are not allowed? Not social media. But many of the news interviews/pressers are easier to find on youtube than at their original source.

 

[SpriteGal]

I am not to concerned about the writing on the wall. I once wrote my name and HELP!!! because I was being dramatic about being in trouble. Obviously the situations are totally different because I never went missing, and my parents were never suspected (or committed any child abuse) but in general kids write on walls. IMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

In looking at the photos posted of the Celis property wall and fence I remembered there being discussed the point I illustrated below.. The large black garbage can(fyi this garbage can DID NOT have wheels at its base) that was located at the position marked below.. Also the red rectangle is made to represent closely the size of the garbage can in relation to the lowest portion of the wall where it was positioned.. IMO this could represent a very easy access point onto the Celis property.. But I am in no way claiming this to be THE actual access point rather only looking at what are the many possibilities in the where/how aspect of someone able to access the property..

____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Pensfan]

Correct, but even still, if Sergio alone harmed her and moved her in theory, did he leave in the night without his other 3 family members knowing, or in the morning between RC leaving and the 911 call? In the day, any pedestrian, car in traffic, garbage workers, cameras would have seen his car leave. At night, possibly any late night pedestrians, night traffic, or cameras. Someone has to know if he left his home between everyone getting ready for bed and the 911 call. If he didn't, then in order for him to be involved, someone would have had to come to the house and take her body away.

There is a reason why the police haven't expanded the search outside of three miles.

Maybe the police saw a car leave and then return quickly that early morning or LE assumes that dad only had 10 minutes (time of mom's shower?) to dump her body.

 

[Stash777]

If you look at the dirt, doesn't seem as if it's been opened or closed.

I can agree with that, but this is an image taken from google maps. I think it's hard to determine without knowing when these images were actually taken. MOO

 

[Curious Me]

Correct, but even still, if Sergio alone harmed her and moved her in theory, did he leave in the night without his other 3 family members knowing, or in the morning between RC leaving and the 911 call? In the day, any pedestrian, car in traffic, garbage workers, cameras would have seen his car leave. At night, possibly any late night pedestrians, night traffic, or cameras. Someone has to know if he left his home between everyone getting ready for bed and the 911 call. If he didn't, then in order for him to be involved, someone would have had to come to the house and take her body away.

Is it a for sure fact that he did return back from the ball game with Isabel?

 

[Pensfan]

Welcome to Websleuths, Kat77!
:welcome:

 

[callyn]

Yea, but Alicia said her dog and the Celis' dogs all went nuts at 6:30 am. The same time she also heard the men speaking in a language she didn't understand. I really wish she would have looked out her window then. No, she goes back to sleep until Uncle is banging on her door at 8am.

I think the Celis' dogs were let out at 6:30 and smelled an unfamiliar scent in the backyard. Barking ensued.

BBM
I don't remember her saying this. Do you have a link for it? I only remember her saying she heard voices but couldn't hear what they were saying. If they were speaking a foreign language, that might be important.

 

[pieper4]

I wanted to revisit the surveillance video(s) from St. Joseph (where the released video originated) to see what the cameras might possibly pick up. While walking the google guy by the Celis' home, I noticed a gate (which IIRC others have stated). It's not just a gate, though. It looks to be a gate large enough for a car to fit through. The first pic is the view of the gate, and the second pic is the view from E Cooper. All MOO - is it possible that the cameras at St. Joes picked up any suspicious activity but not enough to determine what the activity was? Is it possible the person(s) who took Isa did so through the use of that gate? Would Moore's Security cameras picked up this activity? All MOO and questions I'm throwing out there.

That is a very typical double gate in Tucson. Often used for boats or RV storage.

 

[Anita Richman]

BBM

I thought CV said that both parents have fully cooperated from day one and LE talks with both of them everyday.

It is an unwinnable situation. If they appeared a 100 times they would be criticized a 100 times over.

Do you really think the person who took Isa almost a month ago is going to return her if the Celis plead for her safe return? I dont. I have only seen that happen one time in Canada but I cant remember one case in the states where it ever worked.

IMO

Our Canadian brethren are more civilized than we.