AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #18

[Madeleine74]

BBM - What direction is this, because they certainly haven't come out and said it.

You don't see they are focusing in on this being an inside-the-family situation...and specifically looking at the father? To me it's crystal clear this is the primary direction they are and have been heading.

 

[callyn]

That's a terrifying story. The thought of it makes my heart palpitate! Glad no one was hurt!

But those are cat burglars, and that's what they do. No one stole anything from the Celis home that we're aware of.

The only other super quiet kind of crime I have heard of is the Manson family when they "creepy crawled".

I just don't think an abductor would be that skilled at being silent.

BBM
Perhaps a child was stolen. These people were quiet, they were later caught. They were NOT professional cat burglars, just quiet and stealthy. LE called them that because they were so quiet. But it turned out they were simply burglars, and dangerous ones at that.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't see the silence or lack thereof as such a huge issue. The family was probably tired after a night at the games and some people can sleep through anything. Closed bedroom doors would muffle sound, Isa could have been quietened somehow.

 

[Eileen730]

Hey, don't forget the gun runners.

Traveling band of gypsies?

 

[panthera]

To me that's a HUGE possibility, because I've said this before, after Becky put her hair into a pigtail, and dad asked if she wanted something to eat and she says, "no daddy I'm tired", we don't know when and if she ended up in bed, which bed she actually slept in that particular night.

Good point. Has it ever been stated who put her to bed, if she had gotten up during the night, and so forth? If Sergio was watching the baseball game on TV and slept on the sofa, she would have to walk past him to get out both the front and back door. I do believe she was in her own room that night otherwise the boys could have said she was in their room with them.

MOO

 

[mamamia54]

You don't see they are focusing in on this being an inside-the-family situation...and specifically looking at the father? To me it's crystal clear this is the primary direction they are and have been heading.

Then we need and have been questioning what involvement dad may have had with some outside influence to make his daughter disappear, and yet we are being lambasted by some for doing so.

 

[Lava]

You don't see they are focusing in on this being an inside-the-family situation...and specifically looking at the father? To me it's crystal clear this is the primary direction they are and have been heading.

I have my opinions, and they definitely lean towards an inside job, specifically SC. However, LE has also made it pretty clear they are working ALL angles. So I have to keep everything open. Just wanted to clarify that publicly LE hasn't come out in favor of any angle.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I will say one thing, I am now officially worried that CPS could come to my house at any moment.

I had no idea there are so many seemingly benign reasons that they could do this.

I was always under the impression where there is smoke, there is fire, but from hearing so many different scenarios, it seems everyone is at risk, no matter how well you think your parenting is. JMOO (the you was not directed at anyone, just a general you as in people).

I can laugh about it now but at the time, being involved with CPS was scary and intensely upsetting.

It started when my now husband moved 2000 miles to be with me. I wasn't the only reason he moved; he'd been making plans to move for about a year to get his 15 year old son away from the drugs and gangs of California. I first met my stepson when he was 16.

Well! Moving away from California to the midwest was definitely not Stepson's idea of a good time. He was angry, rebellious and just plain out for revenge. At some point, he decided to report us to CPS, alleging that we were starving him. Why he thought this would do him any good, I have no idea (and now that he's in his 30s, neither does he).

We were investigated. We showed the investigator the pantry full of food, the refrigerator full of food, the freezer full of food. We showed him our menu plan for the next week, most of it filled out in Stepson's handwriting requesting the dishes he wanted (he'd just been introduced to Korean cooking and he couldn't get enough of it).

The investigation was ruled unfounded.

The next time Stepson got mad at us (probably for some trivial issue like no, you are not allowed to bring or do drugs in this household), he reported us to CPS again. This time he came right out and stated the problem as he saw it: we refused to keep potato chips, snack cakes or soda pop in the house.

An investigator came out, inspected our kitchen full of nutritious, healthful food. Asked why we didn't keep junk food snacks on hand and I explained I'm diabetic, shouldn't eat that stuff and it is a lot easier not to eat it if it isn't in the kitchen. We showed him the veggies and fruit, some of it already cut up, some would either be eaten out of hand or have to be cut up, a variety of dips, homemade yogurt with a variety of toppings to mix in, nuts, cheese, etc.

All healthy snack foods but not, apparently, to Stepson's taste. He did eat frightening quantities of all of the above but he wanted potato chips.

The investigation was ruled unfounded. Apparently it is not child cruelty to refuse to provide junk food to a teenager.

Stepson kept getting mad at us, reporting us and the investigations kept being ruled unfounded.

It wasn't until an investigator told Stepson that if he made one more unfounded allegation that he (stepson) would be charged that he decided maybe reporting us to CPS wasn't really working the way he wanted it to.

As I said, at the time it was a scary, upsetting experience. Now I can laugh at it.

But if something ever happened to my husband or me, I am sure those old allegations would be dug up and we'd be made to look like the worst parents on earth. People would say "so what if they were ruled unfounded? Where there is that much smoke, there has to be fire."

Somewhere in the back of my head, I still feel a little... unsettled. Not scared, really, just an awareness that if someone wanted to dig through my history, there would probably be clucking and finger waving at me.

 

[mamamia54]

Good point. Has it ever been stated who put her to bed, if she had gotten up during the night, and so forth? If Sergio was watching the baseball game on TV and slept on the sofa, she would have to walk past him to get out both the front and back door. I do believe she was in her own room that night otherwise the boys could have said she was in their room with them.

MOO

Not that I've read or heard about.

 

[Deleted member 718]

AFAIK, LE hasn't ruled anything out.

And a local news director stated on Fox that he thought trafficking was a possibility. It was just his opinion, of course, but seems to be shared by many people.

As for aliens, I don't know. I never saw anyone post about drug cartel smuggling aliens. I must have missed that link.


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There has been lengthy discussion of drug cartels and illegal alien smugglers in previous threads. Pardon me if I lumped it all together. As far as I know, a link is not needed when one is discussing possible scenarios. Perhaps a mod can clarify. TIA

 

[mck16]

I've not found a transcript, but re-watched the video and it was Mark Fuhrman(?) that spoke of her prior DUI and I believe following that he said (paraprasing) you cannot drive and drink. IMO he did not say she was still not able to drive. MOO and what my ears heard. :rocker:

I heard that too, but didn't it seem to you he added 'and drink' as an after thought? It did to me. jmo

 

[Eileen730]

Good point. Has it ever been stated who put her to bed, if she had gotten up during the night, and so forth? If Sergio was watching the baseball game on TV and slept on the sofa, she would have to walk past him to get out both the front and back door. I do believe she was in her own room that night otherwise the boys could have said she was in their room with them.

MOO

Id rather know when the brothers last saw their sister!

 

[GrainneDhu]

To say the least, he confuses me. He is sleeping on the other side of her wall, in the living room, yet somewhat dismisses the point of entry/exit as the window. That assumption would have the perp entering through a door and walking right past him to get to Isabel and remove her from the house. Does he sleep that soundly? And a stranger perp walks past a man sleeping on the sofa to abduct the child? What if Sergio had awakened?

I still believe the window was staged, however, am at a quandry why Sergio would make that statement unless he now realizes how improbable it is? Actually how improbable the whole scenario is with him on the sofa?

:waitasec:

MOO

The perp in the Riley Fox case broke into their house by cutting the kitchen screen door, walked through the living room where her father and 10 year old brother were asleep, picked Riley up and carried her out without either her father or her brother waking up.

Yes, some people do sleep that soundly.

In the Fox case, there were some similarities with Isa's case. The father and two children got home after the children's usual bedtime. That probably contributed to all three of them sleeping so soundly.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Snipped. This is such a good point. If intimidation had anything to do with the CPS order, I really wonder how they feel about this. I did not like seeing him there knowing the son was there. I thought it was unfair to his son to have to see his father peeking out behind a wall, not to mention the weirdness factor.

I know I am posting without properly catching up, but thank you for this post, Lava. It is exactly how I feel.

I did read about the vigil last night as well as listen (video afterwards) to SC's sister and RC. I came away being very upset because SC was in such focus, Of course the sister and RC would take up for SC, but at a prayer vigil for beautiful little Isa? Not proper, IMO. Call a PC and say what you will, but focus on Isa at a vigil for her.

I did get chills when I saw him peeking over that wall. It really was weird and creepy, IMO. I hope the son did not see him, but I hope LE sees the video.

I am deeply disappointed in RC and her words concerning SC. That was not the time. I am more concerned and worried for little ISA than ever now that her aunt and mother seem to be all about SC. I also did not care for the look of excitement on RC's face. Had it been my daughter and so many people were there just for her, I would have been an emotional mess. I would have been so thankful. She almost seemed excited and enjoying herself, IMO.

IMO, so much made about SC at the vigil for ISA took away from it.

I will not even duck any tomatoes being thrown at me for this post. Too many opinions have been attacked when it is clearly stated it is an opinion. Well, this is mine.

MOO, MOO, MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

I have my opinions, and they definitely lean towards an inside job, specifically SC. However, LE has also made it pretty clear they are working ALL angles. So I have to keep everything open. Just wanted to clarify that publicly LE hasn't come out in favor of any angle.

Until an arrest, and possibly even after, LE will never openly talk about any angle or suspicion. They preserve the investigation for legal reasons, so the case can (eventually) go to the DA and any defendant's rights are preserved.

They'll say generic things like, "we haven't ruled anyone out," or "we are looking at all possible angles." And that is deliberate so that no defense attorney in the future can argue to a jury, "my client was railroaded! The police never even considered other possible people or scenarios and they tried to influence public opinion against my client."

Doesn't mean LE isn't leaning one way...I'd put $$$$ on it. They will not, however, come out and say so.

 

[Lark2]

There has been lengthy discussion of drug cartels and illegal alien smugglers in previous threads. Pardon me if I lumped it all together. As far as I know, a link is not needed when one is discussing possible scenarios. Perhaps a mod can clarify. TIA

I think Frayed was making a joke, as in outer-space Aliens.

 

[txanmom]

IMO, I'm not finding this very credible, but I will keep it on the back burner. I guess it is always POSSIBLE. She could have a restricted driving work permit, which people who have their licenses revoked can apply for.

I may have misunderstood, but I took him to mean that if/when she is drinking, she cannot drive or else she would get another DUI.

One other thing I noticed in that FOX video, was the older dog in the backyard was on a very long metal chain fastened to his collar.

 

[mck16]

The perp in the Riley Fox case broke into their house by cutting the kitchen screen door, walked through the living room where her father and 10 year old brother were asleep, picked Riley up and carried her out without either her father or her brother waking up.

Yes, some people do sleep that soundly.

In the Fox case, there were some similarities with Isa's case. The father and two children got home after the children's usual bedtime. That probably contributed to all three of them sleeping so soundly.

Good points. And also playing a baseball game in the hot Tucson evening. I know how my grandson sleeps after a game. An earthquake would not wake him. And if SC had a beer while watching the game on t.v. he would sleep soundly too. jmo

 

[Prof]

*For those who think that a stranger abduction is unlikely, as the perp would have to have walked by a sleeping SC....*


Where on this floorplan was Isa's room again?
Where did SC say he was watching the game? in the Den?
If there was another perp who came in through window and then out say the front door, could he have not had to pass SC on the couch in the Den?
Just trying to get a picture here..
I have always thought it unlikely to take a child out a window and over a wall, but it did not look like the Celis' locked the front gate when those creepy neighbors were caught with the door open on the news? I thought that was the Celis yard door. I thought if it was a stranger abduction, she could have been carried out the door.
Thoughts?

 

[Prof]

I may have misunderstood, but I took him to mean that if/when she is drinking, she cannot drive or else she would get another DUI.

One other thing I noticed in that FOX video, was the older dog in the backyard was on a very long metal chain fastened to his collar.

I did not notice to me that is animal abuse...how very sad.