AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 9

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  • #181
I guess I am not sure what one would have LE doing, that they are not doing. Not knowing what they have learned, if anything, I don't feel in a position to judge their status or progress. But I also do not hold out great hopes of this case being solved, as these types of cases just are not easy to figure out. LE has to be able to rule out scenarios to move forward and in so many of them, they don't seem to be able to do so. I don't know what the answer is...but this LE seems no less competent than the others who have not solver their similar cases...JMO

For one, they do not need to hold these PCs if they have nothing to say.

They need to keep their mind on what they are doing instead of putting out wrong date videos for days and then finally correcting it.

And that was done Monday and still there has been no video released for Friday night and we all know people get out and about on Friday and go to the bars just like they do on Saturdays.

IMO
 
  • #182
There are too many. Danielle Van Damm, Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Dugard and Polly Klaas. We could go on and on....

Children aren't even safe in their own Beds anymore!!

I have kept up with way too many and even I cant remember them all. It is just too many victims to be able to remember each and everyone of them.

IMO
 
  • #183
Frayed Knot wrote, "...statistically speaking, an unknown intruder taking Isabel in the dead of night from her home is improbable...I have to stick with my gut on this and think that Isa was 'disappeared' by her parents or persons known to the family."

Praise God for some common sense!

Who is the sex offender or kidnapper or bogeyman capable of abducting a six year old child out of her house without waking the parents, the brothers, or the dogs? And how did this magical person spirit her away without anyone seeing him do so?

I susect the Tuscon police have much more than they are telling the public. Watch for the Celises to get a hot shot defense attorney very soon.


Respectfully Snipped & BBM:


:rocker: Exactly ... it is plain old "common sense" that Isabel's "disappearance" was NOT because of a "kidnapper" because that's a LOT to overcome : 4 people and 2-3 BARKING dogs ...

And I agree ... it's only a matter when they will "lawyer up" ...

:moo::moo:
 
  • #184
I have been patiently waiting for a week and a half for them to show me they arent clueless. Each day confirms to me they are.

And what is so ironic most LE dont give this many PCs but this LE does and the bottom line all the PCs they give....... amount to nothing.

IMO

Not entirely disagreeing with you, and I see your point, but in some cases, LE doesn't speak out to the public at all, and we complain. Now they're speaking out every day and we're frustrated because they're not telling us anything different. They can't win, can they? It may not be so much what they're saying as it is what they are NOT saying, though. At least they're trying to appease the public, which is something they are not required to do.

I do wish the parents would at least be on camera and say something. I can't imagine not speaking out if it were my child or grandchild. I too tried to be understanding, but they could make a short statement and not take questions. It would help their image a lot. I don't blame them for not being on NG but just the local media would be fine.
 
  • #185
Without a date stamp on the video, how COULD they know, until one of the "mystery group" identified himself and told them they had the wrong day. They requested a certain bit of video frm the surveillance company, and were told that was what had been provided. How could they possibly have known it was wrong until one of the people in it told them?. It's hard to blame LE for this.

I have never seen a surveillance camera video that didnt have a date stamp on it.



IMO
 
  • #186
Respectfully Snipped & BBM:


:rocker: Exactly ... it is plain old "common sense" that Isabel's "disappearance" was NOT because of a "kidnapper" because that's a LOT to overcome : 4 people and 2-3 BARKING dogs ...

And I agree ... it's only a matter when they will "lawyer up" ...

:moo::moo:

Happened in Shasta and Dylan Groene's case - except in that case, the perp killed them. Just as many adults and dogs.
 
  • #187
Regarding being able to get into a house and not be heard, this is what happened to me.
When I was about 20 I was staying at my parent's house. One night, my parents in their bedroom, I was in mine with door closed. We were all asleep. Cat burglars (LE called them that) came into our home, into my parent's bedroom and proceeded to steal things from the top of the dresser. They removed an entire drawer which contained jewelry and carried it out into an orange grove nearby to sort through it. The chilling thing was that they removed a belt from my mother's shorts which she had left only about 2 or 3 feet from where she slept. This belt was later found discarded with a two by four, which LE said was to use as a weapon, and likely the belt to be used to tie someone up. Thank god, no one woke up!

Mind you, as a twenty year old, I had tried to sneak into that room while she was asleep and borrow jewelry and that drawer always squeaked and she ALWAYS woke up!

They also took various items from a spare room including a bag that looked like a purse, but only contained a wet bathing suit - I liked that they found a soggy suit when they expected loot.

They made several trips in and out of the house (through the back door they had broken into) even taking an entire case of liquor from the bar.

They did not enter my room, I suppose because the door was closed, it wasn't locked, just closed.

LE told us often these people will wait outside, listening. They know that a certain length of time after retiring, turning lights off, is when people are in their soundest sleep. They listen to people saying goodnight, turning lights off, then wait til the right time.

We had a dog. We did not hear him bark if he did.

It took me 35 years to feel safe in my house again.

I am not at all surprised that all kinds of things can happen in a house and not be detected at the time.
 
  • #188
Amen to this and the original post!!

To add to it, when a child goes missing, the parents/ family have a responsibility to help find the child - in any way they can. And in this day and age, that involves media.

Meanwhile, I shudder to think how much money has already been expended here, while LE builds their case. Now that they are deploying resources responsibily while in the building phase, some here are mocking them and urging them to "do their job." That's what's they've been doing, from Day 1! Perhaps some just don't like where it's taken them.

I would like to know in what world everyone reacts and acts the same way to things, everyone is different and does things their own way, we have no clue what the parents are doing wrt to helping find the kids, just because they dont want to parade themselves in front of the media doesnt mean they are not concerned or helping.

I certainly respect those of you who suspect them and I have no problems with you expressing your opinions I just would like to see some evidence to suggest their involvement other than "they arent acting up to our standards so they must be guilty."
 
  • #189
Not entirely disagreeing with you, and I see your point, but in some cases, LE doesn't speak out to the public at all, and we complain. Now they're speaking out every day and we're frustrated because they're not telling us anything different. They can't win, can they? It may not be so much what they're saying as it is what they are NOT saying, though. At least they're trying to appease the public, which is something they are not required to do.

I do wish the parents would at least be on camera and say something. I can't imagine not speaking out if it were my child or grandchild. I too tried to be understanding, but they could make a short statement and not take questions. It would help their image a lot. I don't blame them for not being on NG but just the local media would be fine.

I am not one of the ones who wants them to speak out. I changed my mind about that after the third day. I learned early on they arent going to say anything even if they do PCs for the next two months.

PCs are held to give additional information. What additional information have we learned and in two days it will be 2 weeks since Isa went missing?

imo
 
  • #190
Happened in Shasta and Dylan Groene's case - except in that case, the perp killed them. Just as many adults and dogs.

:seeya: I am not familiar with these cases, but could you tell me did the "perp" also kill the dogs ?

TIA !
 
  • #191
Regarding being able to get into a house and not be heard, this is what happened to me.
When I was about 20 I was staying at my parent's house. One night, my parents in their bedroom, I was in mine with door closed. We were all asleep. Cat burglars (LE called them that) came into our home, into my parent's bedroom and proceeded to steal things from the top of the dresser. They removed an entire drawer which contained jewelry and carried it out into an orange grove nearby to sort through it. The chilling thing was that they removed a belt from my mother's shorts which she had left only about 2 or 3 feet from where she slept. This belt was later found discarded with a two by four, which LE said was to use as a weapon, and likely the belt to be used to tie someone up.

Mind you, as a twenty year old, I had tried to sneak into that room while she was asleep and borrow jewelry and that drawer always squeaked and she ALWAYS woke up!

They also took various items from a spare room including a bag that looked like a purse, but only contained a wet bathing suit - I liked that they found a soggy suit when they expected loot.

They made several trips in and out of the house (through the back door they had broken into) even taking an entire case of liquor from the bar.

They did not enter my room, I suppose because the door was closed, it wasn't locked, just closed.

LE told us often these people will wait outside, listening. They know that a certain length of time after retiring, turning lights off, is when people are in their soundest sleep. They listen to people saying goodnight, turning lights off, then wait til the right time.

We had a dog. We did not hear him bark if he did.

It took me 35 years to feel safe in my house again.

I am not at all surprised that all kinds of things can happen in a house and not be detected at the time.

I am not going to say these people are professionals, but this is their way of life. It is their trade and they have perfected it. They absolutely know what they are doing. It is very scary to me. jmo
 
  • #192
Happened in Shasta and Dylan Groene's case - except in that case, the perp killed them. Just as many adults and dogs.

Exactly. Kidnappings are rare, but it is a huge injustice to disbelieve in them due to dogs or an amount of people. Stuff happens...
 
  • #193
It has been... 244 hours or so since Isa's parents found out she was missing.
244 hours of wondering where she is, if she's alive, or lying dead in a wash somewhere.
If she's eating, sleeping, warm, cold, being hurt or being taken care of. If she's suffering or being abused. If they will ever find her.


isa2p.jpg




"We've told them all along it's important to keep this investigation in the forefront and to keep tips coming in," Pacheco said.



isa4km.jpg




Pacheco said the Celis family is "overwhelmed," but the couple are considering the department's request.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-ask-Isabels-parents-to-go-public-149609185.html



isa9.jpg




Hypothetical Officer: It is important for you to talk to the media to help find your child.
Most parents: Get me a news crew, right now. Where do I need to go, what do I need to do?


It is important to do to help find their daughter and they are considering the department's request.

I must be missing something, because I definitely don't understand. :please:

(And I don't think they are guilty. For the record.)


isa6n.jpg
 
  • #194
:seeya: I am not familiar with these cases, but could you tell me did the "perp" also kill the dogs ?

TIA !

No, he broke in and killed the Mom, her boyfriend and an older brother.
The dogs hid from him the whole time.
He abducted Dylan and Shasta. He ultimately killed Dylan but brought Shasta back alive.

Shasta was NOT killed, just to be clear. She was taken to a Denny's where she was recognized.
It was AWESOME. :woohoo:
 
  • #195
I think the world we live in today is a whole different place as compared to when I was a preteen. I agree with you in not letting your preteen go to the mall, especially alone.

Oh, my, that is so true! It's been a long time, but I used to walk around everywhere as a preteen and older, for miles sometimes. I wouldn't think of letting one of my granddaughters do that now.
Predators are getting bolder, taking higher risks these days. Used to be that my parents were only afraid of what or who was out there in the dark, now things like this happen in broad open daylight.
 
  • #196
Exactly. Kidnappings are rare, but it is a huge injustice to disbelieve in them due to dogs or an amount of people. Stuff happens...
Right, but it probably isn't a kidnapping in many other cases - probably an equal amount, even if it is originally reported as a kidnapping. I can think of several of those right now. So I think we need to follow the evidence instead of figuring this out based on other cases. JMOO :cow:
 
  • #197
I would like to know in what world everyone reacts and acts the same way to things, everyone is different and does things their own way, we have no clue what the parents are doing wrt to helping find the kids, just because they dont want to parade themselves in front of the media doesnt mean they are not concerned or helping.

I certainly respect those of you who suspect them and I have no problems with you expressing your opinions I just would like to see some evidence to suggest their involvement other than "they arent acting up to our standards so they must be guilty."

I respect anyone that doesn't hold the same belief I do.

I do not fault these parents for what they decide to do. I am not........thank God ........sitting here knowing my precious child has being ripped away from me and having to think about I may never get to see her again alive.

What good did it do for them to speak out the first time they did? Did the kidnapper bring her home? No. Is he going to bring her back home alive? No, imo. Were they critisized when they did speak out? Yes. Maybe they saw the backlash on the evening talk shows? Maybe their freinds told them how the internet is buzzing against them even more since they spoke out. Who knows.

Imo
 
  • #198
Without a date stamp on the video, how COULD they know, until one of the "mystery group" identified himself and told them they had the wrong day. They requested a certain bit of video frm the surveillance company, and were told that was what had been provided. How could they possibly have known it was wrong until one of the people in it told them?. It's hard to blame LE for this.

If the tape truly was from 24 hours after Isabel's disappearance, there could/should have been clues on the tape. Media presence, LE presence, police tape, searchers. People showing up for church Sunday morning (I believe this tape is from the church). I think it's possible there would have been other clues on the tape that should have made them second guess the date. So, that's how they COULD have known, though I am not saying that these things were present. (But you'd think they would be, a block from a missing child's house).
 
  • #199
I have never seen a surveillance camera video that didnt have a date stamp on it.



IMO

I assume you have watched the video we are discussing. If so, you HAVE seen a surveillance camera video that did not have a date stamp on it. I rewatched the video after the information was released that it was the wrong one and there is NO time or date stamp on it. Unless the video was doctored to remove the date, and given to police to intentionally throw a monkey-wrench into the works, I can't see a time/date stamp on it at all. And obviously, as soon as the group came forward, this deception would have been revealed (if it had occurred).
 
  • #200
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