AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 9

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  • #481
well, gee... posted a nice, personal, lengthy post... and "server not found". GRrrrrr.

That's soooo frustrating! I have learned to copy my posts before hitting the "submit" button. Some people type their posts in a word processing document and then copy and paste.
 
  • #482
Earlier the reports stated that three children had been sexually assaulted and that apparently was not a fact either.

This is what I heard the Captain state on NG. Only one girl was able to fully able to help with the sketch artist. The other two gave some details which were consistent. (This could mean the other two girls said, "Yeah, he was a white guy.")

I do not believe the Captain stated on NG that a sexual assault or an assault had occurred. NG used the word assault, but not sexual assault.

When the Captain described what happened, he stated that two girls were in the bed and one was sleeping on the floor in a pup tent. One of the girls saw a man crouching over them. Then the man walked out of the room. Later, the man returned and said something to the girls. One girl confronted him. The man left the bedroom after this and one girl went to tell her mother that there was a man in the house.

IIRC, the Captain stated "assault or assaulted". I was watching the show and then posted what he stated. I also posted I was surprised he didn't say "sexually assualted.

I wanted to go back and bump my posts up, but the board is so awful tonight that I don't have the patience to wait. :(
 
  • #483
I type in a "quick reply" usually, but before I hit post, I select all and copy, too. I do this on all websites I post to.
 
  • #484
Definitely starting that, too. I thought it was just my connection being flaky... glad I'm not alone. :/
 
  • #485
IIRC, the Captain stated "assault or assaulted". I was watching the show and then posted what he stated. I also posted I was surprised he didn't say "sexually assualted.

I wanted to go back and bump my posts up, but the board is so awful tonight that I don't have the patience to wait. :(

All I know is the official press release from PCSD states child sexual assault.

I think LE is pretty carefull about these things.
 
  • #486
Regarding the mother and children left for Hawaii ...

Reported by Jane/Issues

After he left, the child told her mother there was a man in the house, a man they did not know. We are learning that the girls and their mom were visiting their grandmother from Hawaii after this horrific experience with this suspect. They are now on their way back home to Hawaii. Understandable, but the big question tonight: is there a connection to Isabel`s disappearance?

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, just moments ago before our show started, the grandfather of the victims pulled out of his driveway. And we actually approached him. And we asked him how he is doing, how his granddaughters are doing. And he said that they`re doing fine and that they`re holding up. And he -- he drove away and didn`t want to have any more of a conversation.

But that`s the first time we`ve seen him or any sign of any activity in this house. We`ve heard that the kids have left the house, but that`s the first time that we`ve seen the grandfather, actually, coming out of the house, and he said he was on his way to a meeting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/01/ijvm.01.html
 
  • #487
lol I always ask myself "was it something I said?"
 
  • #488
All I know is the official press release from PCSD states child sexual assault.

I think LE is pretty carefull about these things.

I totally agree with you on what is in the "official press release". That is why I found it odd that the Captain seemed to downsize it and say "assault or assaulted".
 
  • #489
Have there been any reported sightings of Isa? tia
 
  • #490
Okay, thanks Patty. HLN hears they have left the house, and on their way home. Time will tell if that pans out. My gut is that they would ask this family to stick around a bit, but who knows.
 
  • #491
I don't know if this article has been posted yet it's the most recent I can find:
http://www.kvoa.com/news/pima-count...t-still-searching-for-sexual-assault-suspect/

[snipped]
On Monday morning at 2 a.m., the Pima County Sheriff's Department received a call about a man who broke into a northeast side home and sexually assaulted one of three girls.

[snipped]
In 2009, Amy Smith, who also lived on the same street, says she filed a police report after encountering a stranger in her backyard.

"He was brave enough at that point to get in our walled yard and we had a bush in the master bedroom window, and he would get in between the bush and master bedroom window," she said.

She worked with the Sheriff's Department for about a month, but the man was never found.

In every MSM article I've seen, it's called a sexual assault.
 
  • #492
I totally agree with you on what is in the "official press release". That is why I found it odd that the Captain seemed to downsize it and say "assault or assaulted".

May I give you my impression of the LE in Tucson since Isa disappeared?
Well, I will anyway, since we seem on the same wavelength mostly
They are methodical, detail-oriented, and maybe a bit "close to the vest" than others.

Even with the video mishap that wasted my personal time, I am still thinking this LE is better than most I have seen on cases. JMO

While they may not tell the exact truth about some things, I just don't think they would hold back on the serious nature of a crime.
 
  • #493
  • #494
In regards to how "odd" the parents were acting.....maybe this is a huge differance but when my son passed away our world started spinning the other direction, neither of us were making any sense, couldn't think straight and people even commented that at the funeral we didn't seem that upset. We didn't have a clue how to act or what the right thing was so we just did what we thought we should do. Even now, 6 months later, I still find myself acting odd. I think her family is in shock, confused, scared and angry and God only knows all of the stuff that has not been made public. I think everyone needs to give them a break and remember that they are human and not all people act the same. Sorry for my rant, I just feel bad for them.

Bless your soul. You would know what it's like and you are right. I'm very sorry that you lost your son. I know we all are. And your personal loss does not take away from Isabel. It can only help us understand.

So with you there! After a lengthy post about the area of the 3-girl incident, I want to slam my head into a wall. I live in that area. I know there are certain "elements" in this area. I have LE for neighbors. But, no... WS doesn't want me to share. :banghead:

But I really want to hear what you have to say! BTW guys, if you see "server not found" or if you post and find a new thread has just popped up, all you have to do is hit the back button on your internet toolbar and you will see your post in full as well as all the posts you were quoting. Then you can cut and paste. You can even cut and past into a new thread and the quoted posts will be there perfectly.

Hey, Prof? I get what you are saying. There is no reason to disbelieve what happened to those girls. LE would not release something that isn't true.

I think the problem some of us are having is with the details that have been reported. They don't ring true at all, or plausible.

First was a report to the police that a molestation was in actual progress. Makes no sense. Then there is the report that he came in, left, came back and was molesting a child and someone called police to report an intruder in the home molesting (present tense) a child. Makes no sense. Now we see a report that an intruder came in, left, came back and said something to one of the girls and then one of them ran for help. And the girls suddenly leave quickly back to HI? No more meetings with LE? No recorded statements they still need to give? I mean, the last part may be understandable. If I went on a visit and my child was molested by an intruder in a town where another child just disappeared, I would want to get the heck out of there immediately. I would not feel safe and I'm sure my spouse would be screaming for me to get home. But all together, these reports are strange, which got many of us thinking.

It may just be bad reporting. But sometimes LE reports a crime and later finds it was a false report. It happens. I'm not saying it happened here. I think it should be taken seriously, but the reported events are hinky to me.
 
  • #495
Also from Amy Smith in the previous article:

[snipped]
"Peeping Tom's are harmless is what I heard a lot. They're just boys wanting to watch, which to me was my privacy.that was violated and I didn't give my permission for that."

Now she wants other parents to be extra cautious.

"Just be aware. The picture they have of this gentleman, he looks nice enough., so be aware and don't dismiss anything."

The suspect is described as a Caucasian male in his 20's with dark hair. He was last seen wearing dark glasses, dark shorts and a green, sleeveless shirt. If you have any information call 911 or 88-crime.

BBM Is LE downplaying the incident? Maybe afraid Tucson is getting too much negative publicity? :(
 
  • #496
http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRang...son-peeping-toms-on-the-rise-pun-not-intended

... While this incident has many pitiful aspects, perhaps one of the saddest is that a Peeping Tom incident is reported about every other day. Tucson police statistics from January 1 to mid-August put exposure and Peeping Tom offenses at 133. Lewd and lascivious acts are at 26 and the specialty category of window peeping at 19. Keep in mind these are only reported cases, while others can be going on unreported or even unknown to the victims.

Article from Sept. 2011
 
  • #497
Also from Amy Smith in the previous article:

[snipped]


BBM Is LE downplaying the incident? Maybe afraid Tucson is getting too much negative publicity? :(

I think she is saying she was told this when reported, not just now?
 
  • #498

Scary. And let me add that IMO, someone who breaks into your back yard, and stares at you from the bushes, is NOT harmless. Peeping Toms often escalate to something much worse. If that's what LE told the neighbor, they did her a disservice.

Once treated solely as crimes of annoyance, this behavior increasingly has become recognized during the past decade as serious and potentially dangerous sexual deviancy.

Escalating criminal activity is a legitimate issue for Peeping Toms, said Louis Schlesinger, a forensic psychologist at New York City's John Jay College of Criminal Justice who has written numerous articles and books about sexual and other types of crime.

"Nobody wakes up one day and kills somebody or robs a bank," he said.

Burglary is a typical next step for peepers, Schlesinger said. His research into sexual murderers showed the escalation as a trend.

Of 52 such murderers he studied, 42 percent had a history of burglary. Of those, 68 percent burglarized for voyeuristic reasons while the remainder broke in for fetish-based reasons, such as theft of underwear.


Examples of escalating behavior have been well noted in the Fox Valley.

Jamie Lee Sames of Shakopee, Minn., faces charges in Outagamie County related to the sexual assault of a child in March outside Fox River Mall in Grand Chute. Sames was found guilty in 2005 in Minnesota of misdemeanor interference with privacy, that state's Peeping Tom law. He climbed a ladder and looked into a neighbor's bedroom window.

Allen K. Umentum of Sturgeon Bay will go to trial June 2 on an accusation of stalking a college student last year in Green Bay. In 2008, Umentum was convicted on two misdemeanor counts of invasion of privacy after he sneaked into the dorms at the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh and spied on female students as they showered.

In 2003, Todd Meverden of the Town of Neenah was sentenced to 120 years in prison for a series of burglaries and sexual assaults in Winnebago County during the spring and summer of 2002. Police said Meverden's crimes escalated over a three-year period from window peeping to stealing women's underwear before finally reaching the level of break-ins and sexual assault.

Generally, law enforcement hasn't fully caught up with research showing that voyeurism— activity that is sexual in nature but doesn't involve touching — should be taken seriously, Schlesinger said.

Often, he said, detectives will search for suspects in sexual murders among those on sexual offender registries. Burglary and peeping history is often far more relevant.
http://www.postcrescent.com/article...rt-Tracking-voyeurism-Peeping-Toms-Fox-Valley
 
  • #499
Many people reported a prowler/peeping tom during the crimes of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker in California. Generally someone would hear someone moving around outside or even see someone walking through back yards or peering into windows. A few days later, a rape and/or murder would occur in the same neighborhood.
 
  • #500
Gitana, thanks.

Perhaps those reporting are the hinks in the hinky, IDK.
I do know that out of context statements, sound bites, and any simple manipulation of text can change meaning for every one of us.
You know.
Let's eat, grandma!
or
Let's eat grandma!

That's why I go to the source. That is my motto. Go to the source. That and "leave a better campsite than when I arrived." That's all I know :P
Anything else is an interesting experiment in what we called the "telephone game" when I was a child.
 
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