AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 9

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  • #901
I totally get how frustrating it is when LE has to sort through real tips, vs tips from people with theories that generate online. However - these discussions, both here and elsewhere, fuel a lot of the interest in the case. They keep us all talking about it, keep us interested. It is what happens when you have national attention, people talk. As much as I know it is frustrating, and as much as I know a lot of our speculation is just to keep us "entertained" while waiting for real news - I would rather people keep doing it, keep talking about Isabel.
 
  • #902
It'd be pretty hard to miss a dead body. They tend to smell after a while. Having the wrong video is one thing - missing a body, particularly with dogs involved, is highly unlikely, in my opinion.

Not always look at the Sandra Meyers case in Oregon, they had cadavar dogs in the backyard. She was buried in a pump thing that operated a fake stream in the yard, she was feet away from the back door and found by her sons, covered up with trees and branches and stuff.
Her husband had shot himself a week before under the house, he claimed in his suicide note he didn't do it but police have blamed him. Dogs like humans make mistakes - just not as many.
 
  • #903
I don't know the specific rumors he was talking about with regards to the family, but I can only imagine it has to do with the parents supposed involvement in Isa's disappearance.

I had one lady come up to me the other day at work and tell me with 100 % confidence that Isa was kidnapped by a drug cartel that her dad used to be involved in. I don't even know Isa or this family, but it was hurtful to me. I just ignored it. People are entitled to their own opinion.

But, I can tell you one thing. If there was any substance to any of these rumors and the authorities thought the parents had any type of negligence, the other children would be in the custody of CPS right now. So, until that happens, I'm going to believe that these are hard-working, loving parents who are not directly involved and truly miss their little girl.

I think if someone "used to be involved in a drug cartel" that person would either be 6 feet under right now or in the Witness Protection Program. JMO
 
  • #904
LE was on NG last week and he was asked if the family took a lie dectector test. Basically he stated it is standard operating procedure to issue a lie detector test BUT he is not sure if one was issued or not.

I do not recall what day LE was on in order to provide the transcript.

He was also asked that last week in a press conference and his answer was that it is standard procedure and normally they would do that, and then he said, "And I'll stop there, and you can draw your own conclusions."
 
  • #905
I think if someone "used to be involved in a drug cartel" that person would either be 6 feet under right now or in the Witness Protection Program. JMO

Yeah, and I doubt they would be disguising themselves as a dental hygenist/opera singer/baseball coach. JMO:twocents:
 
  • #906
Yeah, and I doubt they would be disguising themselves as a dental hygenist/opera singer/baseball coach. JMO:twocents:

Right? And 45 mins from the Mexican border, no less. Yeah, I'm not seeing it.
 
  • #907
http://www.kvoa.com/news/celis-parents-visit-house-separately-accompanied-by-law-enforcement/

Sergio Celis arrived at the east side home early this afternoon with several detectives, according to News 4 Tucson's Lupita Murillo, who has obtained video of this occurrence. The father remained inside the home for about an hour, then left.

Murillo then witnessed Rebecca Celis, Isabel's mother, enter the home, also accompanied by law enforcement officials. After the mother left, a young boy was escorted inside the house by law enforcement.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18063127/banners-placed-on-celis-home

Shortly after 11:30 today, investigators arrived in two cars and entered the house through the garage with a man who appeared to be Sergio Celis. After he left, Rebecca Celis arrived.

Investigators later brought another person into the home who appeared to be a boy in his teens.


BBM. So who's the young boy? It seems to me if it was one of Isa's brothers, he would have come with one of his parents. His description is too young for Uncle JM.
 
  • #908
http://www.kvoa.com/news/celis-parents-visit-house-separately-accompanied-by-law-enforcement/

Sergio Celis arrived at the east side home early this afternoon with several detectives, according to News 4 Tucson's Lupita Murillo, who has obtained video of this occurrence. The father remained inside the home for about an hour, then left.

Murillo then witnessed Rebecca Celis, Isabel's mother, enter the home, also accompanied by law enforcement officials. After the mother left, a young boy was escorted inside the house by law enforcement.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18063127/banners-placed-on-celis-home

Shortly after 11:30 today, investigators arrived in two cars and entered the house through the garage with a man who appeared to be Sergio Celis. After he left, Rebecca Celis arrived.

Investigators later brought another person into the home who appeared to be a boy in his teens.


BBM. So who's the young boy? It seems to me if it was one of Isa's brothers, he would have come with one of his parents. His description is too young for Uncle JM.

Since it is part of the investigation they most likely had them somewhere else and where questioning them separately, and then one by one took them to the house for more questions. They were probably separated before leaving for the house.
 
  • #909
Easy there...I am one who said I'm not sure I buy the story about the 3 little girls. The police are investigating a report that there may have been sexual assault.

And they absolutely should investigate. However, the initial information reported leads me to question the story. That's not DISMISSING and I haven't jumped to the point of being one who "will always believe that these girls made it up...". I don't know what went on/didn't go on. That's why police are investigating. Questioning the story isn't dismissing a report of a child's sexual assault!!

Right. I would never disbelieve a child who states they have been molested. But the odd reporting and shifting reporting of the case did cause me to question whether an intruder assault actually took place there.

In this time, in Tuscon, a scared child running into Mommy's room stating, "Mom, I think someone's in my bedroom!" could be translated by an on-edge parent to "911, please come! I think there is an intruder in here trying to rape my kids!"

We have no uncontroverted facts yet, except there was a 911 call about a molestation by an intruder in progress, a later notation on the TPD crime map about a forcible rape at what seems to be the same location, a composite and an investigation by the police.

Everything else that has been reported has been later contradicted or changed in some form.

To question the reality of that situation is not to dismiss claims of possible minor child crime victims nor is it to suddenly decide "never to believe the girls". Where that came from, I don't understand at all.

I for one question what happened that night but I also think it could be very, very significant and I take it very seriously. It could absolutely be connected to Isabel's case and would scare me to death if I lived in Tuscon.

About the uncle/cousin. I see a lot of rumor on this thread being treated as fact and tons of misniformation.

First of all, I saw no one suspect him because of what he wore in photos. Maybe I missed that. But I never saw one post regarding his dress style. I saw him on the news and his FB page and he looked completely normal to me as far as his style.

Second, I gave a pretty detailed list about why some think he should be investigated, none of which had to do with his clothes or jewelry. Those included that: 1) Many have been molested by family members so they immediately look at family members, as par for the course; 2) He was talking about Isabel in the past tense on the news only two days after she went missing; 3) His FB appeared to indicate that he had moved to Tuscon from Florida in the last year, which would be a change in family dynamic for Isabel. Any change in family dynamic should be looked at; 4) He posted, once in AZ after coming there from Florida that he loves being loved and loves, loves being an uncle. Not a sinister statement but may indicate a new relationship with young relatives, one of them who could be Isabel; 5) RUMOR from another site is that he appointed himself as the family spokesperson in the first days of the disappearance and that the family was annoyed by this; 6) An overall vibe by some who have seen his FB that he may be a bit socially inept when it comes to women, due to his age, status and some remarks on his FB pages, and; 7) He has an apparent criminal history involving drugs, IIRC (I have not seen his criminal records) from Florida and Arizona.

I think there are solid reasons to look at this man and see where he was that night, etc. However, what is clearly rumor and should not be taken as fact, besides the rumor I posted above?:
1. It is RUMOR that he spent the night at Isabel's the night before she was reported missing, or tucked her in or was there the following morning. In fact, it is LESS than rumor because there is no indication that this is the case from any source except the speculative minds of websleuthers. No MSM report, no LE report. No rumors from family, friends, nothing. The neighbor stated an uncle came to her door that morning around 8:00 a.m.. She never identified who that "uncle" was.
2. It is a RUMOR that JM is actually a cousin to Isabel. That came from a post here in which someone stated they read somewhere else that JB is actually the cousin to Becky, the mother, which would mean he is the cousin to Isabel and her brothers. We actually do not know his family relationship at all. He identified himself as Isabel's uncle to news reporters but that has not been verified by LE or Isabel's parents.
3. It is a RUMOR that he lives very close to Isabel. In fact, again, that is less than rumor, it is speculation on the part of websleuthers based on reports that Isabel's paternal grandparents live down the street. But, we do not know where this guy lives. None of that has been determined, reported or alluded to by LE, the media or Isabel's parents.

In any event, I think looking at the uncle, among other people, is very wise. I would look at him closely if I were LE. But I hope we don't get carried away here by wild speculation that is based on nothing at all but out own ideas and imaginations. We can't sleuth with misinformation or conjecture mistaken for fact. :moo:
 
  • #910
That a family member or at least someone known to Isabel hurt her. The uncle is in my mind most no matter how many excuses i try and make up for him. Dad either has an idea or knows more than mum at the very least. I don't think that sweet child is with us anymore and would LOVE nothing more than to be proven wrong. Purely gutfeeling though and has been from the start when the screen was pushed out and blinds or curtains moved to the side. Too much movement at that window for me.

Any cops text book always mentions that the guilty parties give out too much information and start, unconsciously, giving out information on the preparations they did to hide a scene. They will be able to account for every minute on hearing she went missing etc, there is never a fuzzy stage because their adrenalin starts pumping.

Innocent people are usually confused to start with and will get things in the wrong order until the haze settles and reality hits.

Not always the case but often.

People lying about crimes that happen to them also give out too much information - they tend to recall every single moment right from the start.

The other night my son was missing for about 45 minutes, I could not remember what he was wearing, even though he asked me to get those specific clothes ready the night before. When did I realize he was missing? How long had we been outside? (my kids and I were laying outside looking for shooting stars).
I could not answer any of their questions with any degree of certainty and felt like such an idiot..my brain just would not work.
Everything you said makes a lot of sense.
 
  • #911
Dbl post, blaming server
 
  • #912
I think the speculation that he (uncle) may have spent the night there comes from the neighbor in the guesthouse (who heard the male voices) saying that the uncle was there early when the father was looking around for Isa. In fact, I believe this neighbor said that the uncle came to her door, didn't she?

For me, at least, that is what makes me wonder if he spent the night there - him being on the scene so quickly. :twocents:
 
  • #913
  • #914
Not always look at the Sandra Meyers case in Oregon, they had cadavar dogs in the backyard. She was buried in a pump thing that operated a fake stream in the yard, she was feet away from the back door and found by her sons, covered up with trees and branches and stuff.
Her husband had shot himself a week before under the house, he claimed in his suicide note he didn't do it but police have blamed him. Dogs like humans make mistakes - just not as many.

The original point made that I was responding to was that Isabel was in the house. It is extremely unlikely that Isabel is in the house, due to the smell of decomposition and the dogs. Being buried outside, underground, in something is a different kettle of fish than being put in a duct or behind drywall. The house is not that big - LE would have discovered this by now if she were in the house.
 
  • #915
Well it would be interesting to see if LE takes anyone else into the house.
 
  • #916
Tucson police detectives accompanied the parents of Isabel Celis back to the family home Wednesday as part of their investigation into the 6-year-old girl's disappearance.

A police official said the return to the house was part of the "normal investigative process."

Detectives took Isabel's father, Sergio, and mother, Becky, into the house separately.
"The family has been cooperating," said police Lt. Fabian Pacheco at the 2 p.m. police briefing. "We are there with their consent to continue our investigation."
 
  • #917
Not always look at the Sandra Meyers case in Oregon, they had cadavar dogs in the backyard. She was buried in a pump thing that operated a fake stream in the yard, she was feet away from the back door and found by her sons, covered up with trees and branches and stuff.
Her husband had shot himself a week before under the house, he claimed in his suicide note he didn't do it but police have blamed him. Dogs like humans make mistakes - just not as many.

But we're they FBI dogs? I think they have higher certifications, but I could be wrong.
 
  • #918
Thanks for the presser updates!

I don't get why a simple timeline can't be established after 12 days. What does it take to confirm that

Yes Isa was at school on Friday from ___ to ____

Yes Isa got home from school from ____ to _____

Family home from _____to_______

Family went to ballpark at ______

Family arrived home at ________

Mom and and dad went to bed at ________

Isa went to bed at 11:00 pm

Brothers went to bed at ________

Any others at the house that night? Yes______No________

If others at the house what time did they leave? _________

Did anybody inside the home hear anything? ______________

What time did mom leave on Saturday ?____________


Are these "sensitive" questions to the investigation? :waitasec:
 
  • #919
  • #920
Thanks for the presser updates!

I don't get why a simple timeline can't be established after 12 days. What does it take to confirm that

Yes Isa was at school on Friday from ___ to ____

Yes Isa got home from school from ____ to _____

Family home from _____to_______

Family went to ballpark at ______

Family arrived home at ________

Mom and and dad went to bed at ________

Isa went to bed at 11:00 pm

Brothers went to bed at ________

Any others at the house that night? Yes______No________

If others at the house what time did they leave? _________

Did anybody inside the home hear anything? ______________

What time did mom leave on Saturday ?____________


Are these "sensitive" questions to the investigation? :waitasec:

If they are...this is not about a random stranger running loose, IMO.
 
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