Found Deceased AZ - Isabella Grogan-Cannella, 8, Bullhead City, 2 September 2014 - #2

[Seajay]

In Jenise's case, GG seemed a normal teenager. Mr. Wrights criminal background was not brought to Jenise's door and caused her death. Jenise isn't dead because of the parents doing anything more then be friendly to what appeared to be an normal neighbor kid. That's the big difference between the two cases. This mother brought drugs, criminals and death into her house and exposed it to her daughter. Her lifestyle and actions caused this death. Mr. Wright's did not. Jenise's death had nothing to do with her father, Bella's had everything to do with her mother. IMO,MOO

 

[3blue1pink]

TG is obviously grieving . As a mother it's hard not feel some empathy for her . However , it's so sad that her need to self preserve supersedes her sense of accountability for the death of her child . She cannot or will not see that her lifestyle and acquaintances were a direct contribution to Bella's murder . That being said , I have no qualms about eliminating her parental rights period! Even if she is never indicted in this tragic crime .

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

At the end of the day, that little girl would most likely still be alive, dancing, singing, being goofy, playing at school, etc., had her mother kept the criminal element away from her, and their home. While it is true that law abiding citizens fall prey to the perverted criminal element as well, the liklihood of becoming a victim of a violent crime dramatically increases if you surround yourself and your children, around violent criminals. I don't have a link or stats to back this up, I say this from countless conversations I've had over the years with friends who are LE and family who is former LE.

It's just the way it is. Is poor Bella's death punishment enough? NO it most certainly is not. Unless she owns her complicit status in this filthy, brutal crime, gets help, gets clean (if in fact she is a user, which I suspect she is) turns her life around, cuts out EVERY junkie & criminal she knows (and if that means moving away, so be it) then no, nothing will change. She'll just become more and more bitter and vengeance-driven without ever owning her own responsibility in this. If she DOES take a complete 180 and says to herself "dear God what have I done?" then I'll be the first one coming back in a year or 5 saying "oh wow, look what she's done with her life since little Bella was taken away!!" It can happen and it does happen, but unless SHE makes that first move, it won't happen.

MOO and all that good stuff.

I would dispute that apparent certainty. As I had commented previously: drug use, robbery, possession, assault (bar fight or domestic) DOES NOT implicitly guarantee to child kidnapping, rape and murder. Out of all the 'druggies' who we might assume have incorporated in to that household .. how many of them have kidnapped, raped and murdered a child?

It turns out per chance that JJR happened to be bent in that direction. A random occurrence of chance of exposure .. just as it was with the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of Jenise Wright, who by all accounts was a "nice guy" and "shy". What supposedly made JJR more likely to be a child murderer than what made GG (Gabe Gaeta)?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

One does not need an indictment to be held accountable for culpability.

Hmm .. then our Legal System is for naught.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Understanding their situations and helping them grow beyond addiction and bad choices *BEFORE TRAGEDIES OCCUR* is the answer. Beating up someone after the fact is unproductive.

I must respectfully disagree, in part. Of course it's better to get someone help and grow beyond addiction ahead of time, but criticizing someone for their choices AFTER the fact is technically 100% factual. If such expression was unproductive as you state, those "Scared Straight" documentaries would never have assisted a single young person, ever. They're horrible to watch and no they don't make a difference for all young people but for many they absolutely do. I consider that a victory.

 

[bessie]

bbm



I would dispute that apparent certainty. As I had commented previously: drug use, robbery, possession, assault (bar fight or domestic) DOES NOT implicitly guarantee to child kidnapping, rape and murder. Out of all the 'druggies' who we might assume have incorporated in to that household .. how many of them have kidnapped, raped and murdered a child?

It turns out per chance that JJR happened to be bent in that direction. A random occurrence of chance of exposure .. just as it was with the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of Jenise Wright, who by all accounts was a "nice guy" and "shy". What supposedly made JJR more likely to be a child murderer than what made GG (Gabe Gaeta)?

JJR was known to strangle small animals, specifically, his girlfriend's pets (according to TG).

 

[news.talk]

bbm



I would dispute that apparent certainty. As I had commented previously: drug use, robbery, possession, assault (bar fight or domestic) DOES NOT implicitly guarantee to child kidnapping, rape and murder. Out of all the 'druggies' who we might assume have incorporated in to that household .. how many of them have kidnapped, raped and murdered a child?

It turns out per chance that JJR happened to be bent in that direction. A random occurrence of chance of exposure .. just as it was with the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of Jenise Wright, who by all accounts was a "nice guy" and "shy". What supposedly made JJR more likely to be a child murderer than what made GG (Gabe Gaeta)?

The mother stated that she KNEW this man had a history of strangling animals. He was fresh out of rehab for *serious* narcotics and was on parole for violent offenses. What more evidence is needed that this is not a good person to leave alone with a child?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

By the way, FWIW, I agree with you on this. However, it most certainly DOES imply to any rational, good parent, higher risk for potential danger (to themselves or their children) than the average Joe who has no criminal background whatsoever. Key words here are rational and good parent. We already know those girls were in someone else's custody (likely by private agreement due to criminal charges) for several months last year. That certainly doesn't scream "rational, good parent" to me.

I stand by my opinion that this woman put her children in harm's way by her personal lifestyle choices. This will be really hard for her to admit, if she ever does, but publicly accessible court records prove this to be the case.

Again .. I would dispute that certainty. I worked with a man who regularly partook of illegal substances (multiple), along with his wife, two of her brothers and family acquaintances. And, I do mean*regularly*, as a heartbeat. Yes, he and certain members of their family found themselves in legal hot water on more than one occasion.

Yet, his children (three: two boys and one girl) were exposed to that environment. Here we are, forty years later and those children are outstanding human beings .. each still alive and productive in society with families of their own ... because none of the druggies to whom they were exposed throughout the years turned out to also be child murderers.

 

[3blue1pink]

Hmm .. then our Legal System is for naught.

If this was your child or family . You'd be okay with letting TG off Scott free and allow her to continue to parent another human being? That is if the Po Po didn't have enough to indict her ? I wouldn't allow her to adopt a pet!

 

[news.talk]

Hmm .. then our Legal System is for naught.

As I stated - To be held accountable for the circumstances of ones neglect, has a higher standard than just the court system.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Obviously you're trying to imply both are correct . However saying "I barley know him" vs "he's like family " are ridiculously contrary

I say certain of my cousins are family (and they most certainly are, one of whom lived with our family for a few years) but to this day, I do not *know* them. I suspect we are seeing that same seemly contradiction.

 

[newone]

bbm



I would dispute that apparent certainty. As I had commented previously: drug use, robbery, possession, assault (bar fight or domestic) DOES NOT implicitly guarantee to child kidnapping, rape and murder. Out of all the 'druggies' who we might assume have incorporated in to that household .. how many of them have kidnapped, raped and murdered a child?

It turns out per chance that JJR happened to be bent in that direction. A random occurrence of chance of exposure .. just as it was with the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of Jenise Wright, who by all accounts was a "nice guy" and "shy". What supposedly made JJR more likely to be a child murderer than what made GG (Gabe Gaeta)?

JJR had an order of protection placed by three minor children for physical assault....GG didn't have that

 

[Ontario Mom]

And we wonder why these things keep happening over and over and over to these innocent children? I suppose it's easy to find excuses for anything in the abstract. Until one is presented with the reality of this kind of situation threatening one who is loved dearly. The excuses and explaining away of T's behaviour, lifestyle, choices leaves me feeling ill. Not one word of how little Bella might have felt.....did she scream? Was she shaking? IN SHOCK? My hope is that T is haunted by those questions for eternity. But, I doubt it.

I certainly understand why you say that, but MY hope is that she is so horrified by her choices in life it shocks her into making a pro-active change.

 

[3blue1pink]

I say certain of my cousins are family (and they most certainly are, one of whom lived with our family for a few years) but to this day, I do not *know* them. I suspect we are seeing that same seemly contradiction.

Ahh yes ...well the distinction is . He's "like" family . He isn't family . You're example explains why you would barley know a family member . But would you barely know someone who was LIKE a family member ?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

No it's not. We're not talking about a coat; we are talking about completely forgetting that a violent criminal went missing from her home at the exact same time her daughter did. How does one "forget" to mention to the people searching for their daughter that this same man texted her claiming to have her child?

A claim not in evidence. I am under the impression we do not yet know whether or not TG (immediately or otherwise) informed LE of JJR's presence..... ?

 

[news.talk]

A claim not in evidence. I am under the impression we do not yet know whether or not TG (immediately or otherwise) informed LE of JJR's presence..... ?

A claim backed by the 911 call at 1:18 a.m.

ETA: The operator (paraphrased) specifically asked if they knew anyone who could be with the child.

 

[newone]

A claim not in evidence. I am under the impression we do not yet know whether or not TG (immediately or otherwise) informed LE of JJR's presence..... ?

per the 911 call......no

in fact if that material fact had been released to LE at onset bet you there would have been AMBER ALERT

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I must respectfully disagree, in part. Of course it's better to get someone help and grow beyond addiction ahead of time, but criticizing someone for their choices AFTER the fact is technically 100% factual. If such expression was unproductive as you state, those "Scared Straight" documentaries would never have assisted a single young person, ever. They're horrible to watch and no they don't make a difference for all young people but for many they absolutely do. I consider that a victory.

I am under the impression WS is a forum to discuss cases to resolution .. not to remotely badger the combination 'culpable-oblivious / victim' into rehabilitation of their ways.

It seems unproductive *in this forum*.

 

[tier]

Again .. I would dispute that certainty. I worked with a man who regularly partook of illegal substances (multiple), along with his wife, two of her brothers and family acquaintances. And, I do mean*regularly*, as a heartbeat. Yes, he and certain members of their family found themselves in legal hot water on more than one occasion.

Yet, his children (three: two boys and one girl) were exposed to that environment. Here we are, forty years later and those children and outstanding human beings .. each still alive and productive in society with families of their own ... because none of the druggies to whom they were exposed throughout the years turned out to also be child murderers.

And sometimes kids can run into traffic without being harmed. Should we all stop advising against it?

In every case you seem to have a contrary opinion to most. I'm not an advocate of everyone agreeing to even extreme events (like suicidal people should be talked out of it etc) but when it is always the case with a particular person even on similar cases being argued oppositely and very strongly it makes me curious.. are you playing devil's advocate here? I'm not being snarky but sincerely asking. Because fwiw you earlier brought up Jenise's case and I for one felt the parents were in the wrong and conveyed that in just about every post I made. I, too, thought the father mentoring GG had sinister motives behind it. So while the majority thought they should be off limits I didn't see it that way at all. And in this case I don't either even if the majority agree with me this time.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

After thinking about what you were saying, perhaps when sister called mom to say Bella's gone, TG texted JJR to check out what daughter had said. (Do not understand why people text instead of talk but hey that's me.)...is that what you were getting at?

That is the point.