AZ - Lori Vallow Daybell charged w/ conspiring to kill ex-husband Charles Vallow and another relative, Brandon Boudreaux, Chandler, Maricopa County #2

[indicolite22]

I know a lot of WSers agree with your view of MG but I’ve never really understood the hostility toward her. Others may have said it too, but you’re the first one I’ve actually seen say she lied. Can you give me some examples? I do think she told her story in the best light she could for herself but wasn’t aware she actually lied or changed her story - only that she was foolish for not seeing things sooner and that she had trouble keeping dates straight or events in chronological order but I sort of attributed that to memory and wasn’t really thinking of it as lies or changing her story. I’d really like to know more about why so many have such a suspicious opinion of her. (More about what did I miss than it is about her )

There's a certain family member who accused every possible witness (including other family members) of lying, not doing enough to prevent the murders, etc.

 

[aafromaa]

I don't think that evidence was strong enough to point to murder. There were other people more involved who won't testify, for example Lori's sister. IIRC, she once stated that it was her who asked Alex to stay at Lori's that night. Lori also lied to Colby about Charles' cause of death (she claimed he had a heart attack) and he's not on the list.

I didn’t know LVDs sister suggested AC stay with LVD. But I wasn’t suggesting that MGs testimony would point to murder but to conspiracy - that LVD & AC planned it ahead of time - not so much what they planned as the fact that they had a plan. I really don’t think anyone besides LVD & AC & CD knew murder was part of the plan.

 

[iamshadow21]

I know a lot of WSers agree with your view of MG but I’ve never really understood the hostility toward her. Others may have said it too, but you’re the first one I’ve actually seen say she lied. Can you give me some examples? I do think she told her story in the best light she could for herself but wasn’t aware she actually lied or changed her story - only that she was foolish for not seeing things sooner and that she had trouble keeping dates straight or events in chronological order but I sort of attributed that to memory and wasn’t really thinking of it as lies or changing her story. I’d really like to know more about why so many have such a suspicious opinion of her. (More about what did I miss than it is about her )

I think that her role is far from benign, and she knew and facilitated a lot more than we'll ever know for sure. She certainly helped amplify and spread Chad and Lori's influence and grow their following with her platform.

When she got the phone call asking her to run interference about JJ's absence, I think she got very very frightened. I think she knew she could possibly face changes herself, and her approaching the police was first and foremost an act of self preservation.

Does that make her as bad as Chad and Lori? No. But I think there's a lot that Chad and Lori couldn't have done, or couldn't have done as easily, without her. And I wonder if that plays on her conscience, or if she's decided that she is a victim and God has forgiven her, and sleeps untroubled.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I didn’t know LVDs sister suggested AC stay with LVD. But I wasn’t suggesting that MGs testimony would point to murder but to conspiracy - that LVD & AC planned it ahead of time - not so much what they planned as the fact that they had a plan. I really don’t think anyone besides LVD & AC & CD knew murder was part of the plan.

Lori messaged MBP to stay home instead of traveling in order to support her when big things were to happen a week later. IIRC she also contacted her on the morning Charles was killed. IMO MBP probably knew what the upcoming things were.

 

[indicolite22]

I think that her role is far from benign, and she knew and facilitated a lot more than we'll ever know for sure. She certainly helped amplify and spread Chad and Lori's influence and grow their following with her platform.

When she got the phone call asking her to run interference about JJ's absence, I think she got very very frightened. I think she knew she could possibly face changes herself, and her approaching the police was first and foremost an act of self preservation.

Does that make her as bad as Chad and Lori? No. But I think there's a lot that Chad and Lori couldn't have done, or couldn't have done as easily, without her. And I wonder if that plays on her conscience, or if she's decided that she is a victim and God has forgiven her, and sleeps untroubled.

MOO

IMO MG actually believed Lori's story that JJ was safe when she lied for her. It turned out to be a mistake.

 

[iamshadow21]

IMO MG actually believed Lori's story that JJ was safe when she lied for her. It turned out to be a mistake.

You say she believed her, but she recorded the call. Why would she do that if she had no doubts?

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

You say she believed her, but she recorded the call. Why would she do that if she had no doubts?

MOO

The call she recorded happened several days after she lied to police. In the meantime she spoke with Alex (who told her that she didn't want to know what happened) and was likely convinced by DW to call and record the conversation.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Wasn't Adam asked to explain the Nephi story by the prosecution? He also mentioned the translation process as becoming an immortal being.

I remember AC explaining the Nephi story and the so called justified killing ordained by God but nothing was said about who the Nephi were and what translated means in the Mormon religion.

 

[iamshadow21]

I remember AC explaining the Nephi story and the so called justified killing ordained by God but nothing was said about who the Nephi were and what translated means in the Mormon religion.

Nephi was an individual. Nephites were his descendants.

It's a lot, I know. Feel free to ask me anything, I have all this stuff in my brain I'm not using, it might as well be useful for something!

MOO

 

[justme11]

I was glad Kay got that in and someone - was it Adam? Or maybe one of the LE officers? Anyway someone referenced the Idaho case. But…if I’d never heard about LVD I don’t think Kay not seeing JJ or LVD having another case of some type in Idaho would ever make me think that LVD had killed Tylee & JJ. I’m not sure what the jurors are thinking after hearing about another case or that Kay hasn’t seen JJ since 2018 but whatever they are thinking cannot possibly be as horrible as reality.

I think you're right that one of the detectives mentioned Idaho and her friend (or ex friend?) SS too. She mentioned having interviews with two detectives from Idaho at the Chandler police station.

Starts about 22:00.

 

[aafromaa]

I think that her role is far from benign, and she knew and facilitated a lot more than we'll ever know for sure. She certainly helped amplify and spread Chad and Lori's influence and grow their following with her platform.

When she got the phone call asking her to run interference about JJ's absence, I think she got very very frightened. I think she knew she could possibly face changes herself, and her approaching the police was first and foremost an act of self preservation.

Does that make her as bad as Chad and Lori? No. But I think there's a lot that Chad and Lori couldn't have done, or couldn't have done as easily, without her. And I wonder if that plays on her conscience, or if she's decided that she is a victim and God has forgiven her, and sleeps untroubled.

MOO

I do think she should have known better from when she first met LVD and I do think having her/them on her podcast helped validate them and spread the circle of influence to others she knew before LVD. But I do not think until she got that call from CD asking her to tell police JJ was with her that she ever even considered that they had killed him. I think right up to that moment she believed that JJ was with Kay & Tylee at school. I do think she had to have wondered about CV when she finally heard of his death but I think she accepted the self-defense story because she was still thinking of both LVD & CD as religious leaders and that she just couldn’t reconcile any of it with who she thought they were. And by the way, I think AVOW & Preparing A People & JM were big reasons MG thought that way. I think after she got that call from CD and yes lied to LE about having had JJ with her previously that she & DW talked about it and the last time they saw JJ and the lightbulb finally came on for both of them. Now I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have seen it sooner but I just don’t think they let themselves consider it. I think they were all heavily influenced by that whole AVOW & PAP group and thought they were involved in something special by being part of the CD/LVD inner circle. And it’s amazing the things one can justify in the name of religion.

I once had a Christian mentor who helped me greatly when I first became a Christian. I thought this lady had a firm foundation and didn’t think she could easily be lead astray by a sheep in wolf’s clothing. I moved away for a couple of years and when I returned my mentor was talking about this lady evangelist she had met that had opened her eyes to many things and she couldn’t wait for me to meet her. I did and quickly realized what she was teaching was not from the same Bible I had. And she was a single lady who traveled in her ministry and had men in most of the cities that she went to that she was sleeping with. I asked her and my mentor about this and how could she sleep around with various men and stand in a pulpit on Sunday. They BOTH told me that she had made a deal with God since her divorce that if He would allow her this one thing (sex) then she would do whatever He asked of her and travel wherever He wanted her to go in her ministry and that He started opening doors everywhere she went for her to have a partner. Now that does not sound like the God I know and doesn’t line up with the Bible I read anymore than some of her weird teachings did. I told her so and took my mentor and became hers for a while to help her get those distorted teachings out of her mind. I thought she was doing okay but then she moved away and I didn’t see her again for several years. When I did, she had been led astray again (not on the same things but definitely not in line with the Bible) by another charismatic wolf in sheep’s clothing. My point is that some people are followers and if a true Christian leader is not available for them to follow they will follow the wolf that is speaking to them and before you know it they are so far away from the truths of God’s Word that they cannot even recognize it.

That is what I think happened to MG and a lot of people who were involved with LVD & CD and AVOW and PAP. They were followers listening to the voice in front of them and those voices were wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Sorry that got so long

 

[Diddian]

One of the current jurors self-reported that they were shown a yt video about the case but didn't remember any details. What if it dawned on them later that Lori was a triple murderer?

I think the YT video the juror reported having viewed when a friend showed it to them was the body cam video of the police officers arriving at the home after the shooting of CV; the playing of that video in court reminded him. The juror told the judge that when he was shown the video by his friend, he'd heard the audio (the audio was not played with the video in court). The judge asked the juror if he remembered anything from that audio and the juror said he did not.

 

[iamshadow21]

I do think she should have known better from when she first met LVD and I do think having her/them on her podcast helped validate them and spread the circle of influence to others she knew before LVD. But I do not think until she got that call from CD asking her to tell police JJ was with her that she ever even considered that they had killed him. I think right up to that moment she believed that JJ was with Kay & Tylee at school. I do think she had to have wondered about CV when she finally heard of his death but I think she accepted the self-defense story because she was still thinking of both LVD & CD as religious leaders and that she just couldn’t reconcile any of it with who she thought they were. And by the way, I think AVOW & Preparing A People & JM were big reasons MG thought that way. I think after she got that call from CD and yes lied to LE about having had JJ with her previously that she & DW talked about it and the last time they saw JJ and the lightbulb finally came on for both of them. Now I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have seen it sooner but I just don’t think they let themselves consider it. I think they were all heavily influenced by that whole AVOW & PAP group and thought they were involved in something special by being part of the CD/LVD inner circle. And it’s amazing the things one can justify in the name of religion.

I once had a Christian mentor who helped me greatly when I first became a Christian. I thought this lady had a firm foundation and didn’t think she could easily be lead astray by a sheep in wolf’s clothing. I moved away for a couple of years and when I returned my mentor was talking about this lady evangelist she had met that had opened her eyes to many things and she couldn’t wait for me to meet her. I did and quickly realized what she was teaching was not from the same Bible I had. And she was a single lady who traveled in her ministry and had men in most of the cities that she went to that she was sleeping with. I asked her and my mentor about this and how could she sleep around with various men and stand in a pulpit on Sunday. They BOTH told me that she had made a deal with God since her divorce that if He would allow her this one thing (sex) then she would do whatever He asked of her and travel wherever He wanted her to go in her ministry and that He started opening doors everywhere she went for her to have a partner. Now that does not sound like the God I know and doesn’t line up with the Bible I read anymore than some of her weird teachings did. I told her so and took my mentor and became hers for a while to help her get those distorted teachings out of her mind. I thought she was doing okay but then she moved away and I didn’t see her again for several years. When I did, she had been led astray again (not on the same things but definitely not in line with the Bible) by another charismatic wolf in sheep’s clothing. My point is that some people are followers and if a true Christian leader is not available for them to follow they will follow the wolf that is speaking to them and before you know it they are so far away from the truths of God’s Word that they cannot even recognize it.

That is what I think happened to MG and a lot of people who were involved with LVD & CD and AVOW and PAP. They were followers listening to the voice in front of them and those voices were wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Sorry that got so long

I agree that she was in denial about Charles and had no idea about JJ. But how much of denial about Charles and how much she just chose not to ask questions even in her own brain, I don't know. I go back and forth.

Charles came to her when he was frightened and trying to get help for Lori, get help for the kids. And she did nothing. She's insistent that she never fully bought in to the beliefs, but I don't think she's being truthful about that. I think she did buy in, and that's why Charles' pleading had no effect on her. She tuned him out, because Lori and Chad told her to. But she knows it looks bad, so she denies it.

She got a limited immunity agreement for her testimony. Why did she need that if she did nothing? The only other case I've followed where someone got that was Wendi Adelson.

I think she had opportunities to speak out and maybe if she had, it would prevented some of the bloodshed that happened, but she chose not to.

MOO

 

[Mony Mony]

Exactly, but not being a Mormon I had no idea and some jurors also may not have any idea what LVD was going on about.
That is why I posted the link after I looked it up.

I lived in Chandler for two years, and there are A LOT of Mormons in the whole area. I would put a lot of money at least one Mormon on the jury.

MOO

 

[sassyblue]

Interesting discussion on why the jury isn't asking questions about the children.
Where are they?
Do they know?
The jurors eat lunch with everyone else around them including the media who talk.
Discuss that in pre-trial hearing one of LVD's murder conviction will be allowed into this trial.

I highly doubt the jurors are eating lunch with everyone around them...much less the media folk.

I've sat on a few juries for very insignificant charges and we always ate in the jury room with our lunch delivered...with no choice in the matter.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Nephi was an individual. Nephites were his descendants.

It's a lot, I know. Feel free to ask me anything, I have all this stuff in my brain I'm not using, it might as well be useful for something!

MOO

I love your humor.

Thank you, so when LVD was pounding SS for the names of the 3 Nephites in the Book of Mormon she was referring to Nephi the murder's descendants.

What I found hilarious is when LVD thought that by questioning SS using the BOM it was evidence that she was a main stream Mormon and not the dangerous Mormon loon that she is.
She said something to the jury to that effect.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I lived in Chandler for two years, and there are A LOT of Mormons in the whole area. I would put a lot of money at least one Mormon on the jury.

MOO

Definitely one and most likely a few more than one.

 

[Mony Mony]

I highly doubt the jurors are eating lunch with everyone around them...much less the media folk.

I've sat on a few juries for very insignificant charges and we always ate in the jury room with our lunch delivered...with no choice in the matter.

Nate Eaton reported the jurors do not eat together. In fact, he stated he had to be careful while doing his live YouTube show that no jurors were within earshot. Apparently, it was a real concern.


MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I love your humor.

Thank you, so when LVD was pounding SS for the names of the 3 Nephites in the Book of Mormon she was referring to Nephi the murder's descendants.

What I found hilarious is when LVD thought that by questioning SS using the BOM it was evidence that she was a main stream Mormon and not the dangerous Mormon loon that she is.
She said something to the jury to that effect.

Yeah. Here is the sitch.

Nephi was an individual. His family sailed across the ocean to the Americas hundreds of years before Christ.

The Nephites are a people descended from Nephi.

The Three Nephites were individuals specifically chosen by Jesus when he visited America after he rose from the dead (stay with me!) to become immortal and remain on the earth through the ages to minister until the second coming. They're translated beings.

MOO

 

[Cedars]

I agree that she was in denial about Charles and had no idea about JJ. But how much of denial about Charles and how much she just chose not to ask questions even in her own brain, I don't know. I go back and forth.

Charles came to her when he was frightened and trying to get help for Lori, get help for the kids. And she did nothing. She's insistent that she never fully bought in to the beliefs, but I don't think she's being truthful about that. I think she did buy in, and that's why Charles' pleading had no effect on her. She tuned him out, because Lori and Chad told her to. But she knows it looks bad, so she denies it.

She got a limited immunity agreement for her testimony. Why did she need that if she did nothing? The only other case I've followed where someone got that was Wendi Adelson.

I think she had opportunities to speak out and maybe if she had, it would prevented some of the bloodshed that happened, but she chose not to.

MOO

IMO, most people are just looking for friends. Evidently, she and Lori clicked. IMO, it's extremely rare for people to scrutinize and be critical of their new best friend. It's all about mutual liking, sharing and support, and you must drop any negative, judgemental thoughts about that person, because you won't stay friends if you are suspicious of them.

JMO