AZ - Lori Vallow Daybell charged w/ conspiring to kill ex-husband Charles Vallow and another relative, Brandon Boudreaux, Chandler, Maricopa County #4

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  • #641
I’m a bit worried/disappointed to see one of the jurors mention that they knew about her two life sentences BEFORE they reached a verdict. They were interviewed on FOX 10 and shared how they felt giving her a “3rd” life sentence, as they already knew she had two others.

I worry this may be scrutinized heavily by appellate attorneys, should she choose to appeal. It certainly could open a door for questions on what jurors knew about her prior convictions and when they knew that. I saw other jurors mention how they used her demeanor in court as part of their deliberations - another thing that is not meant to be used in deciding guilt. Hopefully nothing will come of it, but I guess time will tell.

I wish courts did a better job of advising jurors that they are free to talk but if they choose to do so, things they say may be scrutinized and/or questioned on a future appeal. I’m sure many jurors have no idea that is even a possibility when they’re speaking with media and that doesn’t seem fair to me. JMOO.
I cant argue the points of view noted here about his statement or how it may have occurred. But i do wish everyone would let this go. She was convicted. We all knew she was guilty as charged. A lot of crime watchers around the world knew. Some didn’t follow the trials though and may or may not have in depth knowledge. I still think he might have heard it in the courthouse hallways, bathroom, soda shop, on his way out the door that night. Whatever. He may not have even known if it was true and may not have said a word till after the trial. I dont even care. I’m glad it’s over.
 
  • #642
  • #643
I'm just getting ready to watch Nate Eaton's Courtroom Insider. He's going to address the concerns many have had about the white-haired juror's comments. He's also talking to Colby.
 
  • #644
Docket updates:

for Charles' case:

Case Calendar
Date Time Date
5/30/2025 10:00 Status Conference


Brandon's case:

Case Documents
Filing Date Description Docket Date/Filing Party
4/18/2025 089 - ME: Trial Setting - Party (001) 4/18/2025

Case Calendar
5/14/2025 10:00 Pre-Trial Conference

5/29/2025 13:00 Trial
5/30/2025 10:00 Trial

6/2/2025 10:30 Trial
6/3/2025 10:30 Trial
6/4/2025 10:30 Trial
6/5/2025 10:30 Trial
6/6/2025 10:30 Trial

6/9/2025 10:30 Trial
6/10/2025 10:30 Trial
6/11/2025 10:30 Trial
6/12/2025 10:30 Trial
6/13/2025 10:30 Trial

6/23/2025 10:30 Trial
6/24/2025 10:30 Trial
6/25/2025 10:30 Trial


link: Docket - Criminal Court Case History
 
  • #645
Tylee was dead by the time Chad and Lori married.
Well, they married after. But I agree that Tylee was a witness to what had happened to Charles and was probably becoming a threat.
 
  • #646
Docket updates:

for Charles' case:

Case Calendar
Date Time Date
5/30/2025 10:00 Status Conference


Brandon's case:

Case Documents
Filing Date Description Docket Date/Filing Party
4/18/2025 089 - ME: Trial Setting - Party (001) 4/18/2025

Case Calendar
5/14/2025 10:00 Pre-Trial Conference

5/29/2025 13:00 Trial
5/30/2025 10:00 Trial

6/2/2025 10:30 Trial
6/3/2025 10:30 Trial
6/4/2025 10:30 Trial
6/5/2025 10:30 Trial
6/6/2025 10:30 Trial

6/9/2025 10:30 Trial
6/10/2025 10:30 Trial
6/11/2025 10:30 Trial
6/12/2025 10:30 Trial
6/13/2025 10:30 Trial

6/23/2025 10:30 Trial
6/24/2025 10:30 Trial
6/25/2025 10:30 Trial


link: Docket - Criminal Court Case History

Just wondering. What will be Lori’s defence in the BB case?

I did not conspire with Alex?
To kill BB was Alex’s idea, I had nothing to do with it?
Will she throw her brother, her Protector under the bus?

Clearly it wasn’t an ‘accident’ or a ‘family tragedy’ so it will be interesting to see how Lori’s gonna try to sleaze her way out of this one.
 
  • #647
His name is Karl.

IIRC it was after this interview when Karl was walking to the shuttle that he comments about the 3 life's.

Peter @ LYK complimented him quite a few times for his responses.
Footage of his comments about the 3 life's wasn't shown.
I got the opposite impression of him than Peter did, he came off to me as quite clueless as to the evidence shown by the state during the trial leading up to the closing and I think it was the 10 other jurors who focused on the couple of texts they mentioned that doomed LVD and got him from his previous not-guilty to guilty.

imo
This is the kind of juror I was talking about when we were discussing why Treena spent extra long going over everything. I think she knew some might not be following the dots. He said it wasn't until he heard the closing arguments that he changed his mind.
 
  • #648
I cannot remember where I read/heard this - maybe one of the news reports or interviews with a juror(will look it up), but I am sure that the juror overheard talk of Lori being guilty of the childrens deaths via the oublic seated in the courtroom.
I went back to find the news article and I cannot locate it, so please disregard my above post.
 
  • #649
Just wondering. What will be Lori’s defence in the BB case?

I did not conspire with Alex?
To kill BB was Alex’s idea, I had nothing to do with it?
Will she throw her brother, her Protector under the bus?

Clearly it wasn’t an ‘accident’ or a ‘family tragedy’ so it will be interesting to see how Lori’s gonna try to sleaze her way out of this one.
IMO she won't blame Alex or Chad. She didn't try to blame him for Charles' death. She'll focus on the conspiracy part and try to explain away her own messages and actions as innocuous.
 
  • #650
I'm just getting ready to watch Nate Eaton's Courtroom Insider. He's going to address the concerns many have had about the white-haired juror's comments. He's also talking to Colby.
Thanks for the video.
It comes down to Karl saying that he misspoke and the judge/defense is supposed to believe that?

I still believe that he was well aware of LVD's 3 life sentences and while speaking with the reporter he had no problem remembering when it was, where he was and what he was doing when he had the thought that "she already has 3 life sentences".

The other indication he knew about the "3" was when asked what he and the other jurors felt about LVD representing herself.
It makes no sense for him to have answered" what did she have to lose, guilty or not guilty".
That answer screams he already knew because no matter what the verdict LVD was going no where but back to prison.
I'm laughing that it was with Fox 10 Phoenix that Karl said this to because he had made it quite clear that he knew absolutely nothing about LVD going into this trial because he only watches Fox and not Fox 10, NBC etc,
IMO
 
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  • #651
The other indication he knew about the "3" was when asked what he and the other jurors felt about LVD representing herself.
It makes no sense for him to have answered" what did she have to lose, guilty or not guilty".
FWIW, I took this to mean that either way -- "guilty or not guilty" -- he's confident that the truth would come out regardless of whether or not she represents herself. He believes that her innocence or guilt is going to determine the outcome, not who's representing her.

Another way to say it... if she's guilty, she has nothing to lose by representing herself, bc she's going to be found guilty anyway. If she were not guilty, that should be obvious as well, so she'd have nothing to lose by representing herself, either.

Granted, that interpretation may reveal a bit of naiveté on his part in terms of how our justice system works, but I don't think that statement alone necessarily means that he knew about her other convictions.
 
  • #652
I cant argue the points of view noted here about his statement or how it may have occurred. But i do wish everyone would let this go. She was convicted. We all knew she was guilty as charged. A lot of crime watchers around the world knew. Some didn’t follow the trials though and may or may not have in depth knowledge. I still think he might have heard it in the courthouse hallways, bathroom, soda shop, on his way out the door that night. Whatever. He may not have even known if it was true and may not have said a word till after the trial. I dont even care. I’m glad it’s over.

Sure, but the person admitted in another later interview that he “looked up” several things discussed in the closing arguments.

She can be (and was found) be guilty and could also have had jurors who possibly didn’t follow the rules. Knowing previous convictions is one thing, and seems less of an issue in my mind/opinion, than admitting to have gone online and looked up things about the case. Who knows where that could have lead, what they could have seen. Several (in the media) are playing defense for this juror, saying he probably misspoke or meant he looked up things *after* giving the verdict…which is interesting in itself. FWIW, this is the same juror who some journalists reported as being talked to several times during the trial, one for his phone going off, second for being on his phone for longer than a minute when asked to put his phone away. Interestingly he was also the one who said he was “up until yesterday, I would’ve said not guilty”.

It’s not great (in my opinion).
 
  • #653
FWIW, I took this to mean that either way -- "guilty or not guilty" -- he's confident that the truth would come out regardless of whether or not she represents herself. He believes that her innocence or guilt is going to determine the outcome, not who's representing her.

Another way to say it... if she's guilty, she has nothing to lose by representing herself, bc she's going to be found guilty anyway. If she were not guilty, that should be obvious as well, so she'd have nothing to lose by representing herself, either.

Granted, that interpretation may reveal a bit of naiveté on his part in terms of how our justice system works, but I don't think that statement alone necessarily means that he knew about her other convictions.
You make some valid points yet representing oneself is not known to be a good idea if you're looking for a not-guilty.
A not guilty verdict usually equates to having a competent defense lawyer(s).
 
  • #654
Sure, but the person admitted in another later interview that he “looked up” several things discussed in the closing arguments.

She can be (and was found) be guilty and could also have had jurors who possibly didn’t follow the rules. Knowing previous convictions is one thing, and seems less of an issue in my mind/opinion, than admitting to have gone online and looked up things about the case. Who knows where that could have lead, what they could have seen. Several (in the media) are playing defense for this juror, saying he probably misspoke or meant he looked up things *after* giving the verdict…which is interesting in itself. FWIW, this is the same juror who some journalists reported as being talked to several times during the trial, one for his phone going off, second for being on his phone for longer than a minute when asked to put his phone away. Interestingly he was also the one who said he was “up until yesterday, I would’ve said not guilty”.

It’s not great (in my opinion).
Thanks for the info about Karl the juror that I was unaware of.
From what Tash said, 2 jurors had to be walked through texts during deliberations because 10 were already for a guilty verdict and Victoria when asked about going into deliberations (paraphrasing) was everyone on the same page she looked over at Karl and said something like "you want to take this"?
I've concluded that when entering deliberations Karl was one of the 2 jurors that were either undecided or not-guilty then the 10 walked them through the text evidence and eventually got the 2 on board for guilty.
Karl meanwhile told a reporter that he was not-guilty until he heard Kay's closing which I do not believe.
It was the other jurors and not Kay who convinced him.
<modsnip>
IMO:
 
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  • #655
I m not going to fault jurors. According to Nate, reporters were told by the judge that jurors would not be talking. Then the reporters saw them come out the front door and why? because there is a shuttle right there that some had to take. The reporters ambushed them. I’m sure they stumbled over their words and didn’t know what to say.
The judge will take care of this.

We have a guilty verdict and all the evidence. if Lori wants an appeal, so be it. Is she going to bring in new evidence that clears her name? Please!
 
  • #656
Sure, but the person admitted in another later interview that he “looked up” several things discussed in the closing arguments.

She can be (and was found) be guilty and could also have had jurors who possibly didn’t follow the rules. Knowing previous convictions is one thing, and seems less of an issue in my mind/opinion, than admitting to have gone online and looked up things about the case. Who knows where that could have lead, what they could have seen. Several (in the media) are playing defense for this juror, saying he probably misspoke or meant he looked up things *after* giving the verdict…which is interesting in itself. FWIW, this is the same juror who some journalists reported as being talked to several times during the trial, one for his phone going off, second for being on his phone for longer than a minute when asked to put his phone away. Interestingly he was also the one who said he was “up until yesterday, I would’ve said not guilty”.

It’s not great (in my opinion).
I'd wondered whether he was THAT juror. I've been on a couple of juries and it seems there is always one juror that skirts the rules, doesn't pay close attention during the proceedings, and then is little invested in deliberations (is inclined toward one result, but states he can easily go either way depending on what everyone else wants). Likely never considers whether that is what he'd want were a jury of peers considering his fate.

Prosecutor Rachel Smith on Nate Eaton's Courtroom Insider last night described the process for how occurrences such as this are usually dealt with - defendant files a motion to have trial set aside, State and defense are both heard on the matter and some investigation/questioning may occur to determine whether the misconduct impacted the outcome, judge rules on the motion - either mistrial or the verdict stands. And if the verdict stands, it can be a later issue for appeal, although Ms. Smith said that the appellate court tends to give a lot of weight to the trial judge's ruling.

I fully expect that this verdict will stand. The jurors were all polled after the verdict was read and each stated their agreement with the verdict. This juror has stated conflicting claims in public in the chaotic atmosphere of reporters shouting questions at him as he exited the courthouse. Other jurors said that no one in the jury room knew about the other deaths and prior convictions when deliberating (so even if this one juror did, it doesn't sound like he used that information to influence others). Finally, the other jurors likely treated the proceedings and the deliberations - including their arguments presented to sway this juror's vote on the verdict - with much greater attention to their obligations than was displayed by this juror during proceedings and this judge observed that over the past few weeks and is going to give that some weight in his considerations.
 
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  • #657
I m not going to fault jurors. According to Nate, reporters were told by the judge that jurors would not be talking. Then the reporters saw them come out the front door and why? because there is a shuttle right there that some had to take. The reporters ambushed them. I’m sure they stumbled over their words and didn’t know what to say.
The judge will take care of this.

We have a guilty verdict and all the evidence. if Lori wants an appeal, so be it. Is she going to bring in new evidence that clears her name? Please!
BBM.
Nah, but she can absolutely appeal, have appellate attorneys attempt to questions jurors, file numerous filings, drag the victims back to court yet again and cause additional pain (and cost to taxpayers) all over again. Some of this think that is just as bad as justice denied, so….

And FWIW there’s a new entry on this case docket dated today, this morning, unclear what it is. Despite representing herself for the trial, I’m sure her advisory attorneys are aware of these juror comments given the widespread media attention it’s gotten so far.

But JMOO.
 
  • #658
I'd wondered whether he was THAT juror. I've been on a couple of juries and it seems there is always one that skirts the rules, doesn't pay close attention during the proceedings, and then is little invested in deliberations (is inclined toward one result, but states he can easily go either way depending on what everyone else wants). Likely never considers whether that is what he'd want were a jury of peers considering his fate.

Prosecutor Rachel Smith on Nate Eaton's Courtroom Insider last night described the process for how occurrences such as this are usually dealt with - defendant files a motion to have trial set aside, State and defense are both heard on the matter and some investigation/questioning may occur to determine whether the misconduct impacted the outcome, judge rules on the motion - either mistrial or the verdict stands. And if the verdict stands, it can be a later issue for appeal, although Ms. Smith said that the appellate court tends to give a lot of weight to the trial judge's ruling.

I fully expect that this verdict will stand. The jurors were all polled after the verdict was read and each stated their agreement with the verdict. This juror has stated conflicting claims in public in the chaotic atmosphere of reporters shouting questions at him as he exited the courthouse. Other jurors said that no one in the jury room knew about the other deaths and prior convictions when deliberating (so even if this one juror did, it doesn't sound like he used that information to influence others). Finally, the other jurors likely treated the proceedings and the deliberations - including their arguments presented to sway this juror's vote on the verdict - with much greater attention to their obligations than was displayed by this juror during proceedings and this judge observed that over the past few weeks and is going to give that some weight in his considerations.
Yea, it sounds like he used that to convince himself towards guilty. He’s said plenty that can be used in new filings and unfortunately, IMO, it doesn’t matter if this verdict ultimately stands if Lori has this ammo to use
In new filings. She can try to get the jurors questioned, she can try to allege in filings that this was unfair, all sorts of things that she would not have had before the jurors comments 😕

We can’t link to it here but the same juror did some interviews on some YouTuber and TikTok creator channels and he elaborated even a bit more and it sounds like he researched some stuff said in closings when he went home and then made up his mind to be not guilty. Thankfully those aren’t in the media so the chances of Lori finding them on her own are very slim, but it’s still unfortunate. I’m disappointed in all the media who ambushed the jurors leaving, they have no idea that things they say to the media can be scrutinized so closely. JMOO
 
  • #659
BBM.
Nah, but she can absolutely appeal, have appellate attorneys attempt to questions jurors, file numerous filings, drag the victims back to court yet again and cause additional pain (and cost to taxpayers) all over again. Some of this think that is just as bad as justice denied, so….

And FWIW there’s a new entry on this case docket dated today, this morning, unclear what it is. Despite representing herself for the trial, I’m sure her advisory attorneys are aware of these juror comments given the widespread media attention it’s gotten so far.

But JMOO.
Lori is going to do what she wants. Thats her. Pure evil. I do not believe there will be a new trial. You aren’t going to find a pure jury with no facts known. You just have to ask for an impartial one. Lori is serving three life terms. Charles got justice. Hopefully, he is in heaven and doesn’t care. Kay would do it again if needed and so would Adam. You aren’t talking about a lot of witnesses. The trial lasted ten days.
That is all I have to say about it. It’s now up to Lori and/or the judge. for me, its no big deal.
 
  • #660
Lori is going to do what she wants. Thats her. Pure evil. I do not believe there will be a new trial. You aren’t going to find a pure jury with no facts known. You just have to ask for an impartial one. Lori is serving three life terms. Charles got justice. Hopefully, he is in heaven and doesn’t care. Kay would do it again if needed and so would Adam. You aren’t talking about a lot of witnesses. The trial lasted ten days.
That is all I have to say about it. It’s now up to Lori and/or the judge. for me, it’s no big deal.
I believe if there’s any issue here it’s that a juror admitted to looking things up from closing arguments before deciding to vote guilty the next day. Depending on which interview you view (either the one with officials media, or the ones he did with some TikTok creators), he says a bit more about heading home and looking up info that he had questions about. He is also pretty clear (in the TikTok true crime creator interview) that he was voicing not guilty before he saw/got answers to the things he looked up. I think any argument that he misspoke can be dispelled based on the level of detail he shared and considering this “interview” was done awhile after the immediate post-verdict ones but again JMOO

ALSO - I’m SO sorry. I don’t mean to sound argumentative. It’s hard since we can’t share the actual TT interview here but this one was longer than the ones I saw he did with the media. I just found some of the stuff he said a bit worrisome because jurors shouldn’t be looking anything up about the case during the trial 🫤

Hearing of her previous/other cases seems like much less of an issue that would get anywhere on appeal.
 
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