AZ - Man who followed teen into Phoenix restroom beaten to death by girl's father, 2 Aug. 2018

[MsFacetious]

I bet this was the same guy that I used to see at QuikTrip. The schizophrenia would definitely fit the conversations I had with the man.

I am simply stunned that anyone thinks this was okay. There is a huge addiction issue down there. I have family members who have been in this man's situation. I cannot fathom anyone thinks this was okay.

Dozens of arrests and never anything serious. This guy was a mentally ill man trying to survive in a country with inadequate mental health care. He could have been anyone of our family members.

People think it'll never happen to their family members because they are too good for it to happen to them. Until it happens to them.

I think, at this point, the daughter’s experience of what happened should carry some weight, too.

And FYI, those bathroom doors are often made of things like steel. Easier to clean and maintain, strong, don’t break easily.

I’d like to know what the door at this convenience store was made from, tbh. Has it been said?

ETA: The story posted below says it’s a QuikTrip. From experience, they’re usually clean and relatively well-maintained. Good staff. The company’s been named one of “the best” to work at for years. And their restrooms usually have strong, stainless steel doors.

I lived down there, went to QuikTrip almost daily. QuikTrip's generally have stronger bathroom doors yes. However, there is still more than enough room to crawl under or over them. I've had to when family member's overdosed in them.

If he really wanted to victimize this girl he could have climbed under the stall door. If he really wanted to victimize a girl he would have had plenty of chances considering he lived on the streets from what we know.

Our justice system disappoints me a lot. However, it is there for a reason. Beating someone to death because YOU think they did something is never okay. If you CATCH the man IN THE ACT of raping your child, I can excuse you losing control. This was nothing like that. No justification.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I see a lot of posters praising the guy/saying they would vote not guilty
posts 2, 3, 4, 5

That’s not the same as saying he’s claiming self defense, which is what I asked.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I assure you that being attacked by the mentally ill isn't any less traumatic than being attacked by the sane. The man had a rep for trying to get at young girls in bathrooms. I have no sympathy.

 

[Satchie]

I expect it was only a matter of time before this man (the Dad) killed or seriously hurt somebody. Normal people don't get to that level of physical violence under any circumstances. Normal people can cope with the realities of living in a modern urban environment (thank goodness). I think he must have been stewing in some kind of general rage and insecurity, and this homeless guy became the target.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I assure you that being attacked by the mentally ill isn't any less traumatic than being attacked by the sane. The man had a rep for trying to get at young girls in bathrooms. I have no sympathy.

Can you provide a link for the fact that this man had a "rep" for trying to get at young girls in the bathroom? Thanks!

 

[LaborDayRN]

I bet this was the same guy that I used to see at QuikTrip. The schizophrenia would definitely fit the conversations I had with the man.

I am simply stunned that anyone thinks this was okay. There is a huge addiction issue down there. I have family members who have been in this man's situation. I cannot fathom anyone thinks this was okay.

Dozens of arrests and never anything serious. This guy was a mentally ill man trying to survive in a country with inadequate mental health care. He could have been anyone of our family members.

People think it'll never happen to their family members because they are too good for it to happen to them. Until it happens to them.



I lived down there, went to QuikTrip almost daily. QuikTrip's generally have stronger bathroom doors yes. However, there is still more than enough room to crawl under or over them. I've had to when family member's overdosed in them.

If he really wanted to victimize this girl he could have climbed under the stall door. If he really wanted to victimize a girl he would have had plenty of chances considering he lived on the streets from what we know.

Our justice system disappoints me a lot. However, it is there for a reason. Beating someone to death because YOU think they did something is never okay. If you CATCH the man IN THE ACT of raping your child, I can excuse you losing control. This was nothing like that. No justification.

I agree. The girls father could have simply called law enforcement and reported the incident. If his daughter wasn't in imminent danger at the time this man was killed, which it appears she wasn't, I can't think of any explanation for this killing other than uncontrolled anger.

 

[Jax49]

Can you provide a link for the fact that this man had a "rep" for trying to get at young girls in the bathroom? Thanks!

Link to EuTuC's post.

AZ - Man who followed teen into Phoenix restroom beaten to death by girl's father, 2 Aug. 2018

ETA (from the CBS This Morning hyperlink) bbm

"Security was like, 'Oh, yeah, we don't play that. That's the third time he did that. We're gonna eff him up if you don't do it,'" the daughter said.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Can you provide a link for the fact that this man had a "rep" for trying to get at young girls in the bathroom? Thanks!

Posted upthread a bit. The security guard mentioned he'd tried at least three other times to get to women in the bathroom, iirc.

ETA: I just noticed that @Jax49 reposted the exact link/source.

 

[Rocco]

I have a feeling there is a lot more to this story that is not being told.

I have a feeling you're right. There must have been some verbal exchange when the father confronted the man. Did Leon say something to the effect of "I made a mistake. I'm really sorry if I scared your daughter. I just went into the wrong restroom. I apologize" or did he say something to the effect of "Too bad. I was just looking for a booty call and your daughter looked good to me". Harris was already furious and if Leon further escalated the situation by taunting him.................

Did he have the right to beat him to death? No. He obviously lost control considering the circumstances. It'll be interesting to see how a jury comes down on this. I hope he doesn't try to claim self defense because it's obvious that's not the case and if I was on the jury, I'd hold it against him. It's also troubling that the police had to go find him. He should have stuck around, called the police himself, and explained what happened.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Can you provide a link for the fact that this man had a "rep" for trying to get at young girls in the bathroom? Thanks!

Posts 49 and 50 gives you all the info

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I expect it was only a matter of time before this man (the Dad) killed or seriously hurt somebody. Normal people don't get to that level of physical violence under any circumstances. Normal people can cope with the realities of living in a modern urban environment (thank goodness). I think he must have been stewing in some kind of general rage and insecurity, and this homeless guy became the target.

So, the pedaphile trying to assault his daughter isn't worthy of horror and anger? Personally I don't consider child sexual assault to be an ordinary part of the modern urban environment, or an acceptable price for living or travelling through a city.

 

[cybervampira]

Where do you draw the line? The next time, a guy harrasses a woman, you simply shoot him? Maybe he just talked to her and gave her that look? Whatever, he‘s a weirdo! A woman stealing a handbag has no place in society, right? Hang her high! A speeding driver endangering pedestrians, punch him until he‘s dead! Someone is mentally ill and acting strange? Whatever, EXECUTION all the way!

We don‘t need police and judges. Vigilante - it‘s wild west! Everybody will be judge and executioner. The constitution is useless. Is it that what y‘all are saying?

 

[bronk4]

That’s not the same as saying he’s claiming self defense, which is what I asked.

how else would they vote him not guilty?

 

[Cryptic]

The reason we have a legal system is so people can't just kill people because they suspect someone did something or are told someone did something but have no evidence. It can't be condoned. Maybe this guy was awful but maybe he wasnt. And what if you get the wrong guy and your vigilante justice is misdirected at an innocent person? Slippery slope.

Very true.

That concern is demonstrated by this case: Attacker concluded that a man might have been taking inappropriate photos of children and bear hugged him while calling for police. The police determined that the man had done nothing criminal, returned his camera and ordered both men to leave the area. The attacker is then alleged to have followed the picture taker- then stabbed him to death.

Navy SEAL arrested in Santa Monica slaying

Though clearly it is not in societal interest to facilitate lethal vigilantism (especially given the fact that vigilantes have a tendency to get out of control fast), Second Degree murder maybe an over charge unless the proscecution can show that the situation was artificially set up by the father, or that the assailant was baited into his actions. Thus, I am thinking Manslaughter charges.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

how else would they vote him not guilty?

If the jury thinks it should be a lower charge, and there is no lower charge available, then they are required to rule it "not guilty". If the jury doesn't agree with the charges, they can still rule "not guilty" and that's called jury nullification. Juries have most of the power in a trial.

 

[Rocco]

I expect it was only a matter of time before this man (the Dad) killed or seriously hurt somebody. Normal people don't get to that level of physical violence under any circumstances. Normal people can cope with the realities of living in a modern urban environment (thank goodness). I think he must have been stewing in some kind of general rage and insecurity, and this homeless guy became the target.

I'd be more worried about a guy who's on drugs trying multiple times to get into a restroom stall with women/girls. What if it had been an 8 yr old girl who was defenseless and couldn't get away? Would it make people feel better if he had actually sexually assaulted this young lady and then been beaten? Behavior like his usually escalates. He doesn't sound like a guy who was turning his life around and trying to be a productive member of society. He sounds like a guy looking to sexually assault someone and just hadn't found a victim............yet.

There's nothing 'normal' , even in an urban environment, about men attempting to get to females in a restroom.

 

[Rocco]

<modsnip: snipped quote> .. he didn't beat him until he was dead. He was alive when transported to the hospital.

 

[asmi106082]

The security guard said he’s done that a few times before. He didn’t elaborate from what I read. He could’ve meant that the man had tried to get into an occupied stall on a prior occasion. Or he could’ve meant that he had gone after females before. I don’t think anyone really knows the circumstances of any prior issues they might have had with this guy before.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

how else would they vote him not guilty?

Seriously? My question was whether or not he and/or attorneys and/or MSM are claiming self defense.

I’m asking for links, proof, of an assertion made upthread.

The defense is decided before a case even gets before a jury, @bronk4. A jury doesn’t decide that.

You’re putting your answer cart before the question horse, friend.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Yes, and he didn't beat him until he was dead. He was alive when transported to the hospital.

For all intents and purposes, let’s just all agree Armstrong was beaten to death, shall we? The man died as a direct result of fatal injuries caused by Harris.

“Armstrong was taken to the hospital where he later died. He suffered brain swelling, a nasal fracture and loss of oxygen.”

Arizona father beats, kills man who followed his daughter into bathroom stall, police say