AZ - Man who followed teen into Phoenix restroom beaten to death by girl's father, 2 Aug. 2018

[dspdenver]

The security guard said he’s done that a few times before. He didn’t elaborate from what I read. He could’ve meant that the man had tried to get into an occupied stall on a prior occasion. Or he could’ve meant that he had gone after females before. I don’t think anyone really knows the circumstances of any prior issues they might have had with this guy before.

We don't even really know what happened in this instance. Was he really trying to get into the stall, or was he just getting his kicks by rattling the door to scare someone weaker than himself? That's certainly something people do to feel more in control of their lives or when they're feeling worthless, or just to be mean. Did the father say anything to belittle him when giving him money before the stall incident? Did he say anything while banging the stall about wanting to rape or hurt the girl?

There was no report that she was screaming or that someone else came in that made him leave, so maybe he just rattled the door to scare her and then walked away. We're just assuming he wanted to hurt her or the others the guard mentioned, but, if so, he didn't try very hard or I think he would have had more serious charges on his rap sheet. I suppose in this incident he could have been charged again with disorderly conduct, or perhaps endangering the welfare of a child if the video showed a concerted attempt to actually get into the stall rather than just bang on it. We just don't know at this point.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

We don't even really know what happened in this instance. Was he really trying to get into the stall, or was he just getting his kicks by rattling the door to scare someone weaker than himself? That's certainly something people do to feel more in control of their lives or when they're feeling worthless, or just to be mean. Did the father say anything to belittle him when giving him money before the stall incident? Did he say anything while banging the stall about wanting to rape or hurt the girl?

There was no report that she was screaming or that someone else came in that made him leave, so maybe he just rattled the door to scare her and then walked away. We're just assuming he wanted to hurt her or the others the guard mentioned, but, if so, he didn't try very hard or I think he would have had more serious charges on his rap sheet. I suppose in this incident he could have been charged again with disorderly conduct, or perhaps endangering the welfare of a child if the video showed a concerted attempt to actually get into the stall rather than just bang on it. We just don't know at this point.

To be fair, we don’t know everything that was reported to police. That fact, however, doesn’t jibe with the implication that we know nothing about what happened.

The girls know what happened. We know what they’ve said to the press, what police allege at this point, what the clerk said he saw, what some other witnesses saw. We know the staff said the man tried this multiple times before, and they were irritated/angry about it.

That’s not everything, but, to my way of thinking, that doesn’t equate to disregarding the facts that do exist and that we do know of.

The preponderance of the evidence we do have right now shows us Anderson very likely did more than a seemingly innocuous “rattle” of a door handle, imo. The victims’ and witnesses’ testimony is evidence, too.

 

[Rocco]

For all intents and purposes, let’s just all agree Armstrong was beaten to death, shall we? The man died as a direct result of fatal injuries caused by Harris.

“Armstrong was taken to the hospital where he later died. He suffered brain swelling, a nasal fracture and loss of oxygen.”

Arizona father beats, kills man who followed his daughter into bathroom stall, police say

I'm going to have to disagree with your detective work there, Lou. (Fargo)

He didn't continue to beat him until he was sure he was dead. That says to me it wasn't his intention to kill him.

 

[dspdenver]

To be fair, we don’t know everything that was reported to police. That fact, however, doesn’t jibe with the implication that we know nothing about what happened.

The girls know what happened. We know what they’ve said to the press, what police allege at this point, what the clerk said he saw, what some other witnesses saw. We know the staff said the man tried this multiple times before, and they were irritated/angry about it.

I haven't seen anything in depth about what they saw on the video. I've seen that the girl reported to employee(s) the guy tried to get into her stall, but have not read what the clerk said he saw and just that security reportedly said he'd done "this" before while watching the video, and haven't seen any reports of other witnesses seeing anything in the restroom. What did the staff report to the police the other times he tried "this", or was it so ambiguous that they didn't report it, and the women/girls involved didn't report it? Was he escalating in these incidents?

I don't think I implied that we "know nothing" about what happened, just that the reported details are too vague for me to say this guy was an attempted rapist/pedophile, though I know I called him a "perv" earlier. Certainly not enough details to justify killing this guy after the fact, even if he scared the girl and "irritated" the store employees. Maybe those details will come out in time, but the father still should have let the police handle it, especially if the girls were with him in the car at the time. Emotions often tend to overrule "should," though.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm going to have to disagree with your detective work there, Lou. (Fargo)

He didn't continue to beat him until he was sure he was dead. That says to me it wasn't his intention to kill him.

I didn't say he "continued to beat him until he was sure he was dead."

I said, for all intents and purposes, he beat the man to death. Which is pretty clear from the stated facts in this case, imo.

Repeating: The man died as a result of fatal injuries caused by Harris.

“Armstrong was taken to the hospital where he later died. He suffered brain swelling, a nasal fracture and loss of oxygen.”

Arizona father beats, kills man who followed his daughter into bathroom stall, police say

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I don't think I implied that we "know nothing" about what happened, just that the reported details are too vague for me to say this guy was an attempted rapist/pedophile, though I know I called him a "perv" earlier. Certainly not enough details to justify killing this guy after the fact, even if he scared the girl and "irritated" the store employees. Maybe those details will come out in time, but the father still should have let the police handle it, especially if the girls were with him in the car at the time. Emotions often tend to overrule "should," though.

bbm

You said, "We don't even really know what happened in this instance." I responded to that, saying there's plenty of evidence to show that we should have a pretty good idea of what happened, because witness testimony is evidence.

And I'm with you in that I'm not calling the dude a rapist or pedophile. That doesn't mean he didn't intend to harm that girl in some way. IMO, it's clear from what we do know that he did intend to harm her. He wasn't there to fluff pillows or change out empty toilet paper rolls, unless there's a source I've missed that shows otherwise.

And also, by stating what I'm stating, I'm not endorsing Dad's behavior. Dad went too far, imo. That said, I also believe Armstrong intended/attempted to harm that girl. Both beliefs can exist simultaneously.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm going to have to disagree with your detective work there, Lou. (Fargo)

He didn't continue to beat him until he was sure he was dead. That says to me it wasn't his intention to kill him.

I also want to clarify, there's no detective work to disagree with, imo.

Intentional or not, Anderson died from the wounds inflicted upon him by Harris. Them's the facts, and I asserted nothing as to Harris' intent.

Whether it's manslaughter or something else hasn't yet been determined, though, of course, we're here to speculate and share opinions.

 

[Rocco]

I didn't say he "continued to beat him until he was sure he was dead."

I said, for all intents and purposes, he beat the man to death. Which is pretty clear from the stated facts in this case, imo.

Repeating: The man died as a result of fatal injuries caused by Harris.

“Armstrong was taken to the hospital where he later died. He suffered brain swelling, a nasal fracture and loss of oxygen.”

Arizona father beats, kills man who followed his daughter into bathroom stall, police say

"He suffered brain swelling" Maybe the hospital gave him Na in his IV by mistake and that caused his brain to swell even further and that killed him.

Two men got into a fight in our fair city a few years ago and one of them was admitted to ICU in critical condition. He died 3 months later of kidney failure. The other man was charged with either manslaughter or murder (I can't remember which). The defense claimed the man died of kidney failure because he developed an infection and was given too many antibiotics by the hospital, not from the fight. And he did in fact die of kidney failure.

Just as the father had no right to beat this man, be the judge and jury, and sentence the pervert to death because the pervie had Constitutional rights, the father also has Constitutional rights----innocent until proven guilty.

 

[flourish]

Wow. Vigilante justice undermines our system. Amazing how "innocent until proven guilty" is so easily situational for some versus, you know, justice for all. The US is not the place for vigilantes carrying out immediate death penalties, without a trial, in the streets or parking lots of our communities!

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

"He suffered brain swelling" Maybe the hospital gave him Na in his IV by mistake and that caused his brain to swell even further and that killed him.

Two men got into a fight in our fair city a few years ago and one of them was admitted to ICU in critical condition. He died 3 months later of kidney failure. The other man was charged with either manslaughter or murder (I can't remember which). The defense claimed the man died of kidney failure because he developed an infection and was given too many antibiotics by the hospital, not from the fight. And he did in fact die of kidney failure.

Just as the father had no right to beat this man, be the judge and jury, and sentence the pervert to death because the pervie had Constitutional rights, the father also has Constitutional rights----innocent until proven guilty.

Hold on, @Rocco. Maybe you're confusing me with another poster?

I never said or implied any person in this case should be denied their Constitutional rights. My posts say the opposite.

 

[Rocco]

Wow. Vigilante justice undermines our system. Amazing how "innocent until proven guilty" is so easily situational for some versus, you know, justice for all. The US is not the place for vigilantes carrying out immediate death penalties, without a trial, in the streets or parking lots of our communities!

He didn't immediately kill him. He died in the hospital from a beating he sustained because, once again, he attempted to enter the stall of a women's restroom when a young woman was in it. It was only a matter of time before a female women/child was sexually assaulted by him or he got the beat out of him.

 

[Rocco]

Hold on, @Rocco. Maybe you're confusing me with another poster?

I never said or implied any person in this case should be denied their Constitutional rights. My posts say the opposite.

Yes, I know that. I'm just throwing in there that the father is entitled to his constitutional right just as the the other man was (since no one else has stated that).

 

[flourish]

He didn't immediately kill him. He died in the hospital from a beating he sustained because, once again, he attempted to enter the stall of a women's restroom when a young woman was in it. It was only a matter of time before a female women/child was sexually assaulted by him or he got the **** beat out of him.

Where he died doesn't change who killed him or make it any less unlawful. Tried and sentenced properly in a court of law, thanks.

 

[flourish]

The father doesn't have a constitutional right to commit murder.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Who's 'Anderson'?

The dead man's name is Leon Armstrong.

So someone has to be convicted of perversion to be a pervert? Does that mean Larry Nassar wasn't a sexual predator or a pervert until he was convicted?

Anyone man who tries to gain access into a women's bathroom stall four different times (one would be enough) is a pervert.

Yep, I made a typo on his name. Twice. Thanks for pointing it out.

The rest is cognitive dissonance, imo, and isn’t worth belaboring any further. I’ve repeated my points enough times already.

 

[Rocco]

delete

 

[Rocco]

Yep, I made a typo on his name. Thanks for pointing it out.

The rest is cognitive dissonance, imo, and isn’t worth belaboring any further. I’ve repeated my points enough times already.

Me too.

The end.

 

[KaaBoom]

The father doesn't have a constitutional right to commit murder.

I agree. It's sad that people think this is justified. Apparently we are no longer a nation of laws but rather just an anarchy society were most people think it's OK to beat accused people to death with no trial. I hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars, but I'm not optimistic.

This reminds me of the Robert Barnes case. The homeless man who was beaten to death because some kid lied and said the man did something to him.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Armstrong suffered from drug addiction and mental illness, and had been living on the streets of Phoenix, his step-grandmother, Marie Armstrong, told KNXV.

"We did not know where Leon was for days," Marie Armstrong said, adding that the family learned he was in the hospital from police.

"He didn't just get kicked in the head once, twice, maybe three times," she said. "His brain was so beat up that he could not breathe.

She said she does not believe that Armstrong was out to harm Harris' daughter.

"I really seriously in my heart believe that he was confused in the bathroom," Marie Armstrong said.

But Jackson said her daughter was terrified by the incident and believes that Harris was trying to attack her.

"She feels guilty," Jackson told ABC News. "That's what she kept saying. She wishes she had never told [Harris] to take her to that store."

Dad charged with murder in alleged beating of man who followed daughter into restroom

I feel so badly for this young girl.

 

[dspdenver]

Dad charged with murder in alleged beating of man who followed daughter into restroom
I feel so badly for this young girl.

From this link, it seems the girl(s) were already in the store when Armstrong approached the father to panhandle change, and then he went into the store. Just speculation, but I would think the daughter would have gone to the restroom first before then getting the fountain drink she wanted, so was she already in the restroom before Armstrong went into the store and he didn't see her to specifically follow her in as reported?

And I've not seen where the asserted rep for going after young girls came from, other than the daughter saying the security guard watching the tape said he's tried this before, but whether that meant trying to get into an occupied stall with young girls or females of whatever age, I have not seen testimony of that, just the repeated assertions here. The stall incident apparently happened very quickly, too, as the link says the daughter came out just "moments" after Armstrong went into the store.

Given the lack of links I've seen to any sexual misdeeds this not-so-smooth criminal has, it may be just as or more likely that he was trying to steal from this girl and the others, who at 16 likely had a smartphone and purse, etc., as a post above said he did have citation(s) for theft. The bathroom would be a more private place for theft than out in the open areas of the store.