GUILTY AZ - Three die in sweat lodge during spiritual retreat, Yavapai County, 8 Oct 2009

[Penelope]

The 4 days without water breaks the survival rule of threes.

Survival rule of threes:

three seconds without brain function
three minutes without air
three hours without shelter
three days without water
three weeks without food

Yes, that is true. Modern medical science warns against going without water for more than 3 days.

The Fast or Vision Quest is a sacred Native American ceremony. Each tribe or Nation performs the ceremony in a different way. The way I was taught, an individual fasts for a vision or a personal goal to help them live their life in a good way. One can also fast for the right to do something -- such as carry a pipe, run a sweat lodge ceremony or Sundance.

In order to receive what it is you are asking for, you must make a personal sacrifice, and that is what fasting is about. You suffer and have the faith to know that through your suffering you will be given the insight that you need to move forward with your life.

Of course, there is a lot more behind it and how one is conducted -- but that is for the Elder, Traditional Healer or Pipe Carrier who is running the ceremony to know. I know that my late husband made offerings, prayed and did many other preparations to ensure those who fasted with him were kept safe. Before we fasted, we had to go through many teachings so we would understand what to do in certain situations we might face during the fast. Some of us had "tools" that would aid us -- our Tobacco and Sage, our drums, rattles and pipes, and we were taught how to use them. A Sacred fire was kept burning to protect us.

Because of who he was, he would know (from a distance) if someone was having difficulty and he would visit them and help them through it. I know from personal experience that upon completing a 4-day fast, one feels a great sense of accomplishment for "facing one's fears" and working through them. It is all about faith -- faith in the Creator (God), faith in yourself, and faith in the person who is putting you through the ceremony.

That is why one needs to research and know who it is who is putting you through such a ceremony. My husband always said that the ones who had the true knowledge were the ones who were quiet and humble about it. They were the ones who did not ask for the gift to run a sweat lodge or conduct a fast, but who were told by the Elders that they had the gift and needed to sacrifice and work hard for many years to develop that gift for the good of others -- not to satisfy their own egos. And I don't think James Ray fits that description!

 

[azwriter]

My late husband was a Native American "medicine man" who conducted sweat lodge ceremonies his entire life. I assisted him in these ceremonies for 14 years. His sweat lodge ceremony consisted of four "doors" or rounds that lasted no more than 20 minutes each. He would heat up no more that 40 rocks for each ceremony. He was always conscious of the heat and would end a round early if it got really hot (sometimes the tips of my ears felt like they were on fire!), especially if there were elders and children in the lodge, or someone with a specific health condition.

Some lodge holders use many more rocks -- 100 or more -- in their sweat lodge ceremonies. I was in a lodge like that once (conducted by someone else) and I started getting a headache, feeling faint, sweating profously, and having to pee really bad (I imagine my body was almost beginning to shut down). It was very scary.

My husband always said that the purpose of a sweat lodge was for purification and healing, not to cause pain, distress or death. He always told those who sought his advice to watch out for lodge holders who run the ceremony like it is a macho test of endurance. He said that was not what The Creator intended for the ceremony to be.

Also, he fasted and trained for many years to run his lodge, and it was passed down through generations of his family. Beware of non-native people who purportedly run a Native American lodge. There are only a few individuals like that who have been taught properly, and anyone else is just pretending!

(Reading this article really got me angry -- I know those poor people suffered and were quite frightened.)

Penelope, thank you so much for your post. I too am very angry about this incident. This guy, James Ray, was treating this ritual as a carnival ride! I heard he was charging upto $9000 per person. I believe this is a crime and he should be investigated and charged with reckless endangerment or second degree murder.
You are right, Native Americans are the prime experts on sweat lodge. I have a friend who is an Apache and she is just livid over this. As she said, this is not something for amateurs to make a buck from. She also said people like this Ray guy casts a shadow on Native Americans culture.
He is a greedy phony who so far has gotten away with his money-making gimick.
I live in AZ and will say that the once wonderful Sedona has turned into a money hungry tourist trap. The location, with its red rocks canyons and its once sparkling clean Oak Creek was never meant to support so many people living on its land. It makes me so sad to visit there and see that the climate has changed (tempertures go over 100 degree there now in the summer) and there are too many homes, tourists shops and round the clock car and tour bus traffic.
I'm going to watch this case very closely. Thanks again for adding your thoughts.
jmo

 

[azwriter]

This article is maddening. In my opinion, this man is only "mum" because he isn't taking any responsibility. He's more interested in keeping his multimillion dollar empire. I didn't know he was involved in "The Secret".

I hope he feels much better after meditating. (Sarcasm intended.)

Hi, I could not agree more. Ray was fooling around with something very edgy. The greed he has "selling" a round in a sweat lodge finally caught up with him. But, it's others who lost their lives.
I heard he has another spiritual ceremony scheduled this coming weekend in California. I hope people are asking for their money back and boycotting this guy.
Nice to see you posting again!

 

[SuziQ]

Some Angel Valley Resort Patients Still Hospitalized

http://www.naztoday.com/news/top-st...el-valley-resort-patients-still-hospitalized/

The Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office is increasing the number of people working on the Angel Valley Resort sweat lodge investigation. Yavapai County Sheriff’s spokesman Dwight D’Evelyn says that the additional investigators are being assigned from the county’s Criminal Investigations Section.
Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh requested, and was granted, an order to seal the search warrant and other documents relating to the case. “In order to prevent jeopardizing investigative work resulting from the release of search warrant documents, the Yavapai County Superior Court has granted a request from the County Attorney’s Office to seal the search warrant and any associated documents,” said D’Evelyn.

More at link.

 

[SuziQ]

http://campverdebugleonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=24590

Verde Valley Fire personnel talk about Angel Valley incident

COTTONWOOD - There is much finger-pointing in the wake of two sweat lodge deaths at the Angel Valley Retreat. Yavapai county building officials say they issued no building permit for the temporary sweat lodge structure measuring 20-by-20 feet in which 68 participants crowded around steaming rocks.

Meanwhile, a spokesman for Spiritual Warrior self-help instructor James Arthur Ray, Howard Bragman, disputes that Ray's staff built the structure. He said Ray's contract with the Angel Valley spiritual retreat called for Angel Valley to "design and construct" the sweat lodge.

Three people remain hospitalized, one in critical condition, one is listed as fair and one in good condition at the Flagstaff Medical Center.

More at link.

 

[SuziQ]

The deaths of two people in a sweat lodge event in Sedona have created concern among Arizona's Native American communities. A number of tribal members said they feel those in the New Age community who use their ceremonies are out for one thing—to make money. However, New Age believers said that's not the case. Rather, they say it's a form of honoring Native Americans and obtaining spirituality.
Native American sweat lodges are a sacred place of worship for tribal members. Traditionalists are disturbed by what happened in Sedona last week.

More at link:
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2009/10/13/20091013newageandnatives10132009-CR.html

 

[SuziQ]

How to Spot a Charlatan

http://blog.beliefnet.com/yourdaily...-or-charlatan-how-to-spot-the-difference.html

 

[azwriter]

http://campverdebugleonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=24590

Verde Valley Fire personnel talk about Angel Valley incident

COTTONWOOD - There is much finger-pointing in the wake of two sweat lodge deaths at the Angel Valley Retreat. Yavapai county building officials say they issued no building permit for the temporary sweat lodge structure measuring 20-by-20 feet in which 68 participants crowded around steaming rocks.

Meanwhile, a spokesman for Spiritual Warrior self-help instructor James Arthur Ray, Howard Bragman, disputes that Ray's staff built the structure. He said Ray's contract with the Angel Valley spiritual retreat called for Angel Valley to "design and construct" the sweat lodge.

Three people remain hospitalized, one in critical condition, one is listed as fair and one in good condition at the Flagstaff Medical Center.

More at link.

SuziQ, thanks for posting this. Of course this guy claims he wasn't responsible for the construction of the sweat lodge. Well, he used it and brought all those people in there. He had the responsbility of making sure it was safe and would not harm the participants.
In an article in this morning paper the resort was leading a prayer ceremony for the dead victims and well as all the people still in the hospital. Yeah, I bet they are praying - that they don't get sued. This guy Ray needs to be brought in for questioning, along with his staff and the resort owners.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2009/10/13/20091013newageandnatives10132009-CR.html (SuzyQ linked this above, snip from article below)

"We're not taking it. You still have it. We're not taking it away from you. You should be flattered we're imitating it," said Rodgers.

Is this saying that Native Americans should be "flattered" that these folks are "imitating" their age old customs and beliefs for the sake of money? I find this statement as being rather insulting to the Native Americans and their customs. JMO.

 

[SuziQ]

Well, he hardly skipped a beat. He's already back to giving seminars.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/14/20091014sedonadeaths1014.html

The man in charge of a spiritual retreat near Sedona that left two people dead after they were overcome in a "sweat lodge" said Tuesday night he is facing a difficult time and "being tested" by the tragedy.
The comments from self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray came during a seminar at a Marina del Rey hotel in Los Angeles. Ray broke down in tears as he addressed the deaths.
"This is the most difficult time I've ever faced," he told the crowd of about 200. "I don't know how to deal with it really."

More at link.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

The man in charge of a spiritual retreat near Sedona that left two people dead after they were overcome in a "sweat lodge" said Tuesday night he is facing a difficult time and "being tested" by the tragedy.
.

Please note that my comments are to be read with sarcasm:

If he really wanted to be a strong leader, he'd cry and admit what a terrible thing has happened - and play the pity card. He'd explain his journey after the tragedy and how he has fasted and sought to know how to continue to lead those that need him. For as he teaches those people to overcome their challenges, he has realized that his biggest trial is overcoming the trials that have befallen him. Through this he has learned to be a stronger leader and that he must continue to sacrifice himself as he continues to go through this week after week to help those who need him.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[SuziQ]

Not the first sweat lodge incident and one victim is still in a coma.

Resort near Sedona had previous sweat lodge incident
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/14/20091014sweatlodgerecords1014-ON.html

 

[azwriter]

Well, he hardly skipped a beat. He's already back to giving seminars.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/14/20091014sedonadeaths1014.html

The man in charge of a spiritual retreat near Sedona that left two people dead after they were overcome in a "sweat lodge" said Tuesday night he is facing a difficult time and "being tested" by the tragedy.
The comments from self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray came during a seminar at a Marina del Rey hotel in Los Angeles. Ray broke down in tears as he addressed the deaths.
"This is the most difficult time I've ever faced," he told the crowd of about 200. "I don't know how to deal with it really."

More at link.

I'll bet he's in tears. He's probably afraid he'll be charged with a crime along with being sued by the participants who were harmed and the family of the dead victims.
Here's a hint of how he can deal with it - go into a sweat lodge like the one he operated in Sedona.
jmo

 

[azwriter]

I had to add that Ray claims he's cooperating with authorties and has his own team investigating. If that's true, why was the lodge dismantled before LE could examine it?
I understand plastic was used in building part of the lodge, when natural materials are mainly used to assemble Native American lodges. Maybe plastic was a factor in poisoning the air inside the lodge.
I'm so glad there is a thread on this story. It makes me so mad to know these people were harmed and/or killed.
Thank you SuziQ for your contributions.

 

[azwriter]

Just now I received a breaking news update from KFYI 550 Radio in Phoenix that the deaths at the sweat lodge were not accidential.
Yavapai County Sherrif, Steve Waugh said the deaths are being treated as a homicide investigation.

 

[SuziQ]

Sweat lodge deaths investigated as homicides

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/15/arizona.sweat.lodge/index.html

 

[SuziQ]

Ray had a conference call with participants. BBM, WTF?

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/15/20091015sweatlodge1015-ON.html

(snips)
In the call Wednesday, Ray stressed the importance of eating healthy food, exercising, resting, meditation and surrounding themselves with “like-minded individuals.”
“Remember all that we've learned and experienced and knowing by law of the universe that out of every apparent chaos comes a greater state of order, an order that never existed prior to the chaos,” he said, after asking those on the call to imagine themselves standing in a prayer circle.

A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the ceremony and “were having so much fun that they chose not to come back.”

 

[azwriter]

Ray had a conference call with participants. BBM, WTF?

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/15/20091015sweatlodge1015-ON.html

(snips)
In the call Wednesday, Ray stressed the importance of eating healthy food, exercising, resting, meditation and surrounding themselves with “like-minded individuals.”
“Remember all that we've learned and experienced and knowing by law of the universe that out of every apparent chaos comes a greater state of order, an order that never existed prior to the chaos,” he said, after asking those on the call to imagine themselves standing in a prayer circle.

A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the ceremony and “were having so much fun that they chose not to come back.”

"So much fun they chose not to come back." Sure, tell that to the victims' family. I'm sure they will accept that reason for losing their loved ones.
UGH!

 

[Chili Fries]

This same kind of thing happened 9 years ago to 10 year old Candace Newmaker. She died during a pseudoscientifiic "therapy" called rebirthing done to treat attachment disorder. Rebirthing involved wrapping the young girl in a flannel sheet and having grown adults press pillows down upon her until she was able to crawl out and be "rebirthed".

The therapists called Candace a quitter when she stopped struggling and asked if she wanted to die, then mocked her when they unwrapped her and found her in a pool of vomit. The two rebirthing therapists were sentenced to 16 years in prison each for Candace's death. One was parolled after 7 years. Rebirthing is now illegal in Colorado, where this happened.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

"So much fun they chose not to come back." Sure, tell that to the victims' family. I'm sure they will accept that reason for losing their loved ones.
UGH!

Those are some comforting words, aren't they? :banghead: