GUILTY AZ - Three die in sweat lodge during spiritual retreat, Yavapai County, 8 Oct 2009

[azwriter]

I would be very interested in your thoughts as to his innocence, or whatever your thoughts are as to his not being responsible for these deaths.

thanks.





(btw...i'm a few days behind, watching taped IS presentation).

well one can only hope. Sunny, the IS talking head, though she is beginning to see the light, keeps repeating that "all he needs is one juror". She, I assumes, means one juror to tie up the jury and prevent a guilty verdict. I've said b4 that if I were a resident of that county I would hope that if a verdict isn't arrived at in this case that the DA would re try James. IMO in that case, this legal dream team will be gone, unless James has millions and millions to spend.

If they don't get him this time, they will get him the second time around, sans the California Heavyweights. imo. not that the heavyweights are making any headway imo.

Has anyone looked up these lawyers? They are from one of the most powerful law firms in the United States, imo.

gotta be costing jim THOUSANDS an hour.

I think this top notch defense team is very capable of landing some "resonable doubt" bombs. But, not with this jury. I live in Arizona and the mind set is that the locals do not want this publicity, let alone have the rest of the country consider that "God's Country" Sedona and Cottonwood areas caters to people like James Ray. We stir up enough bad press here ourselves, God knows.

People who bring the wind of scandal, death, suspicion or corruption to someplace like Sedona are generally not welcome to have their name or business here.

I do believe Ray should be held responsible for these deaths. He was the leader. He decided how many grandfathers were to be brought into the lodge. He decided how long the rounds would be. He made the rule no one could leave until the end of a round. He decided on the seating plan of two rows and offering a lodge that housed over 50 people. He controlled when the flaps were open. He bragged about the hottness of "his" lodge. He made the sweat lodge a test of endurance instead of the spiritual quest and or healing purpose of a real sweat lodge.

I do not see this jury of Arizonas being the least bit forgiving or attaching itself to any reasonable doubts for James Ray. It's personal now.

jmo

 

[costalpilot]

Oh thanks. I somehow got the impression that the locals were not excited about all this and were specifically offended that James acted like he did, especially his high tailing it back to Beverly hills while other members of his company did everything they could to render assistance.

Also I've heard the IS th's talk about the jury being mostly men. I don't think that's such a good deal for James.

Lori Lovens just nailed James to the wall. Good gracious.

 

[azwriter]

A dozen things kept me from viewing coverage of this trial on In Session today.

Can anyone tell me - has the judge ruled to allow in information (testimony) about former James Ray sweat lodges and specificially episodes of others becoming ill in these former lodges?
thanks

 

[LinasK]

Somebody on the Caylee Anthony forum mentioned that Ray's request for a mistrial was denied by the judge today... don't have a link!
Also the tiny bit of InSession I caught today at the end was focused on Casey's hearing.

 

[costalpilot]

A dozen things kept me from viewing coverage of this trial on In Session today.

Can anyone tell me - has the judge ruled to allow in information (testimony) about former James Ray sweat lodges and specificially episodes of others becoming ill in these former lodges?
thanks

wish I could. something I was watching l;ast night gave me the impression that some "prior experiences" were now going to be be allowed. But I can't vouch for that interpretation.

when i find out,, I'll let you know. Personally I didn't see the wrangling over the prior sweats when the judge ruled against their admission, but I've seen them described by JR's legal dream team and by participants. Typically the lawyers version was further from the truth than the moon.

its amazing how many people who had experience with death ray were EXPECTING a tragedy and totally not surprised when they heard about it. one person said she knew it was him when she first heard that people had died in a sweat lodge, before his name was even mentioned. I think the judge should have let the priors in from the start, but mostly, he's a great judge, imo.

 

[costalpilot]

ok i have it, according to IS producer Grace Wong, who is on site:

because the defense is making the claim that they died from poisonings in the sweat lodge air (yeah sure) the state has made the assertion that they can now present info about prior sweat Lodges, to counter the "poison is particular to this one S,L." argument. I didn't see it, but I suppose the D. asked pointed questions about poisoning and put the theory out there.

Ted Mercer, an angel valley employee was testifying yesterday about JR's Sweat lodges as they compared to others he had seen, and how different Death Rays were...how much hotter, and how sick people got at Rays.

The state, again, asserted they had the right to pursue this line of questionings because the D had played the "Poison in the air" card, and apparently, despite his pre trial ruling that prior SL info should not be admitted, Darrow agreed with the state that it could counter the poison theory with Mercer's testimony, as to the people getting sick at ONLY death rays sl's, including priors.

the D. objected. called for a mistrial because poor little them had prepared under the basis that priors would not be admitted, and now they are, so poor death ray is not getting a fair trial.

The D. has opened the door to the prior s.l. experiences.and the judge let the state walk in. I just don't know how much real info about them is going to get out.

the truth is, people had been getting sicker and sicker by the years, as Death Ray turned the heat up.

and many people were aware of the truth. one wonders if the truth is REALLY going to be admitted in the final analysis.

 

[costalpilot]

Omg they've given up the no prior sl info entirely. Li is currently showing pics of previous sl's, after pointing out that people lying in mud is actually a lot of Fun, now Li is showing all these pics to the witness trying to make it all innocent looking. If what I've heard about them is true and the state gets to tell the jury,

well.....inmatejamesray.

 

[costalpilot]

Mercer is the one who proposed the theory of poisoned wood that night and it wad his wife that got sick even though she wasn't in the sl. So he was basically looking for a reason she got sick.

His wife, Debbie mercer, got sick after two people died. She maybe reacted to that? She ended up with a headache and nauseu. And the d. Is putting their eggs in that basket. The IS th's are waxing on about how great this lovely defense team id doing. I think it's fair to say the iS th's are in love with James rays lawyers. Apparently degrees from harvard, Yale and oxford is good enough for them.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Mercer is the one who proposed the theory of poisoned wood that night and it wad his wife that got sick even though she wasn't in the sl. So he was basically looking for a reason she got sick.

His wife, Debbie mercer, got sick after two people died. She maybe reacted to that? She ended up with a headache and nauseu. And the d. Is putting their eggs in that basket. The IS th's are waxing on about how great this lovely defense team id doing. I think it's fair to say the iS th's are in love with James rays lawyers. Apparently degrees from harvard, Yale and oxford is good enough for them.

OMG Postal..TY for the updates...Isnt it amazing that a defense can claim, ask questions suggesting things..then when that fact get exposed as bogus, Hummmm maybe its agood thing for pros..in order to expose previous experiences...James Ray needs to be stopped from bilking so much money from people and not to mention expose them to danger...BAD!!

Thanx again bud :seeya:

 

[costalpilot]

I must say this legal team and what I know about this case, along with my standard distaste for defense atty's, is actually making me more cynical about our legal system than it was.

I'm surprised.

 

[costalpilot]

Li keeps promising to quit but he won't. Li is never gonna shut up with the bs, but of course spewing BS is his sacred duty.

 

[azwriter]

Mercer is the one who proposed the theory of poisoned wood that night and it wad his wife that got sick even though she wasn't in the sl. So he was basically looking for a reason she got sick.

His wife, Debbie mercer, got sick after two people died. She maybe reacted to that? She ended up with a headache and nauseu. And the d. Is putting their eggs in that basket. The IS th's are waxing on about how great this lovely defense team id doing. I think it's fair to say the iS th's are in love with James rays lawyers. Apparently degrees from harvard, Yale and oxford is good enough for them.

After watching Debbie Mercer testify today I am inclined to believe she might have suffered an anxiety attack after being exposed to the condition of the sweat lodge participants. Mercer seemed like a shy woman who might not resent hard work, but she would be overly concerned watching people in stress or ill. She might have felt helpless when it came to all the people in different degress of being sick or overcome when that sweat lodge finally came to an end. And, in my opinion, she could easily react to what she witnessed by becoming ill herself. JMO

 

[costalpilot]

After watching Debbie Mercer testify today I am inclined to believe she might have suffered an anxiety attack after being exposed to the condition of the sweat lodge participants. Mercer seemed like a shy woman who might not resent hard work, but she would be overly concerned watching people in stress or ill. She might have felt helpless when it came to all the people in different degress of being sick or overcome when that sweat lodge finally came to an end. And, in my opinion, she could easily react to what she witnessed by becoming ill herself. JMO

No kidding. It is much more reasonable that she was emotionally and physcially impacted than upset by a supposed posion released in the air by supposed posion on wood.

It is not an easy thing to be involved in an event where people suddenly and unexpecetdly die.

 

[logbump]

Some interesting data on JAR teaching methods.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...0410james-arthur-ray-sweat-lodge-profile.html

 

[logbump]

Def asking for mistrial, on live.
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream4

 

[azwriter]

From the judge's comment this morning where he clearly stated there was a violation, I think I hear a mistrial coming. As I understand it, his ruling will not be announced in person in court; instead it will be written for both sides to learn his decision.

When he left the bench today, I got the feeling he wasn't coming back. And Jim Ray walks.
Not a good day for trial watching for AzWriter.
jmo

 

[costalpilot]

James Ray was all you hoo n it up on Twitter till the word came down; no mistrial. Then he got all otherunivererey on us dumb asses that need hhis gideancecso bad, cmaybe thet'll they'll start a new age gfoup in jail.
Maybe big bubba can go all. In on jr.

 

[ziggy]

I have to say I am in shock there is no mistrial and I think it's injustice! The defense didn't know about a superseding intervening cause in these deaths until their case is ON, and like really ON. The state willfully witheld discovery that could very well show that Mr. Ray is not guilty. God, I'm sounding more like a defense attorney every day - is this what law school does to a person...but geez, seriously we need to care about due process. If the faulty design did cause carbon dioxide to accumulate in that one spot, it could be the reason they died and the reason as they were dying, they were saying "i'm fine" - oxygen deprived brains.

I don't know. Ray and what he does doesn't offend me in the least. I love the Secret and I've done the Tony Robbins firewalk. A sweatlodge would be way out there for me, but others have done it without dying, and others left because they didn't feel good. I just can't put a man behind bars if he's not guilty. This may not rise to any criminal negligence and no negligence on his part at all!!!

 

[ziggy]

A one week continuance for the defense? This guy is going to win his appeal hands down.

Here's what I think went down: A civil wrongful death action was filed and they probably figured there was some joint liaibility - one with Ray and the other the sweat lodge company. The environmental expert was hired and gave his report about faulty design - THAT would be great for suing the people who own and provide the enclosure so very GOOD for a civil case. Because the civil cases are stayed until the criminal prosecution is finished, this expert was not revealed to anyone except the Plaintiff's attorny - The discover was maybe halted in the civil case and the discovery process may not have gotten that far - the report was the plaintiff attorney's work product and was privileged.

Then the plaintiffs attorney emailed it to the State who erroneously placed the expert's name on the witness list. That's how the criminal defense go his name and they were never able to see what was in his report until just recently.

This is just really crazy that they only allow the defense a week to completely overhaul their defense based on new evidence.

Does the judge have a hunch he'll be acquitted anyway so no biggie?

 

[costalpilot]

no ziggie, not in a million years.

debbie mercer, today, chews up and spits out tom kelly. if I'm JUROR i feel like getting up and punching tom kelly in the face, just to let him know what I think of his treatment of this unassuming, intelligent lady.

james ray deserves this legal team. I'm sure they are going to enjoy spending his misbegotten money.