AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[gitana1]

The book I talked about in an earlier post is called "When a Child Kills" by children's rights advocate Paul Mones. It is about parricide and its causes.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Along with budding serial killers we also have future thrill killers, spree killers, rapists, amongst us. There are some scary kids out there. I'm always 100 percent freaked out when kids get out of juvie after what seems like 5 minutes of time served. It doesn't seem right. Turning 18 or 21 doesn't mean the kid is "fixed" or safe for society.

I feel the same way. It has only been in the past 10-15 years that therapist have discovered that they can not fix a sociopathic child. The therapist that my granddaughter when to for years after her mother was murdered told me this. This is in Washington state. Maybe other states think the kids can be fixed but a sociopath is without a conscience. There is no way that they can be given one...they are born without one.

This boy might not be a sociopath but it is really errie the way he planned the two murders out way ahead of time. It seems his reason for doing it was because he was supposed to bring some papers home from school and he neglected to bring them home and he got in trouble. I would guess something was going on with his school work and dad wanted to see his paperwork after it had been corrected by the teacher. Most parents do this if their child is having problems with their school work. We want to check it over and see what grade they got. That is my opinion anyway.

The gag order is only for the attorneys, etc. It doesn't cover neighbors and friends of the family...relatives, teachers, etc. It seems that if this boy had been abused someone would have spoken up by now. The boy hasn't even said that his dad was mean to him or hit him. There was a reason why the dad had the stepmom spank the boy. We will never know why though. Maybe she was upset about the school work too and maybe dad felt he was to angry to tend to the spanking. That would make sense to me.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi

I see this little boy saying to these officers what he thinks they want to hear.I agree with what this guy has to say and he was a prosecutor.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=305024

suzanne

 

[Bobbisangel]

I got a chance to hear part of the interview today. IMO this kid did not murder his father. One phrase stands out to me. He stated he cried for half an hour after he found his father. To me that means two things.

First of all, no 8 year old (esp. a boy) would include crying as a part of his fantasy/plan- and he just wouldn't include it as a part of his plan/alibi. A typical 8 year old plan would cast him in the part of the courageous, hero type. Like he would tell police that he found his father and ran to the neighbors right away. He wouldn't plan emotion into it. The second part is that he said he cried for half an hour. No 8 year old has a sense of time. A half hour to them means nothing, or everything depending on what they are wanting or not wanting to do. That tells me that someone had already talked to the boy, someone had already tried to pin down his activitites, and he was already picking up cues from the investigators on what they wanted to hear. They asked him how long he was beside his father and cried, and he made a guess and said half an hour. They wanted an answer and he wanted to please them.

No he didn't cry during the video. But this kid just found he father dead. He would have been in shock. And maybe he did cry when he found him. Then he went for help, he got help there, turned it over to adults, they got him away from there, and then he got involved in different activities. He has the attention span of an 8 year old, not an adult.

If someone else shot his dad and he sat by his dad and cried why did he then go into the frontroom with the gun and call Tim R into the house. Tim's wife can verify what happened while she was talking to her husband on the phone while he was outside. She told the police about it at the funeral. The boy called Tim into the house by saying that there was something wrong with his dad. Tim R didn't even get into the house before he was shot...4 times. In the interview the boy tells the police that Tim had already been shot but he was suffering and so he shot him 2 times like he shot his dad 2 times. In reality the dad was shot first and then the boy called Tim into the house and shot him on the porch or in the doorway to the house. It doesn't sound like there was anyone else involved but this young boy who police say had been planning the murders for awhile. The boy changed his story several times until he admitted that he had shot both of the men. I'm sure that police have enough evidence to prove who did the killings or they would never have arrested this young boy. They thought he was a witness at first.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Here's some info on the DSM-IV's criteria for "conduct disorder" which is basically the child version of anti-social personality disorder, an umbrella term covering sociopaths/psychopaths:
Diagnosis
The diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder (codes 312.xx, with xx representing digits which vary depending upon the severity, onset, etc. of the disorder) as listed in the DSM-IV-TR are as follows:

A repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated, as manifested by the presence of three (or more) of the following criteria in the past 12 months, with at least one criterion present in the past 6 months:

Aggression to people and animals

often bullies people, threatens, or intimidates others

often initiates physical fights

has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun) (except for activities such as archery and hunting)

has been physically cruel to people

has been physically cruel to animals

has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)

has forced someone into sexual activity

Destruction of property

has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage.

has deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire).

Deceitfulness or theft

has broken into someone else's house, building, or car

often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons" others)

has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)

Serious violations of rules

often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years

has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in parental or parental surrogate home (or once without returning for a lengthy period)

is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years

The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

If the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for Antisocial personality disorder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder

I have heard nothing to suggest that this kid has done any of the above with the exception, of course, of the recent horrific murders, but we are talking about a repetitive and persistent pattern of conduct.

ya gotta start somewhere. I think he was simply an overachiever.

Let's let him walk, have outpatient therapy and see if he'll have a repetitive and persistent pattern at 13......I'm placing my bet on him fulfilling the requirements!

 

[mendz]

I think that in step families, it is best if the step parents do not begin to assume that role in the first place, unless they are actively raising the child from the time the child is a toddler and the other parent is not in the picture.

I agree and this is what we do in our home. Just because I got remarried does not mean my son has a "new dad". It will be up to him to decide if he wants to call J "dad" some day, I will not tell him he must do so nor do I think he should if he doesn't feel it. It might have been different if his dad were deceased or totally out of the picture (might as well be sometimes - )
I'm not saying anyone else is wrong, just giving insight into my POV. Whatever works in your family is usually the best way.

 

[MeoW333]

http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvextra-index.html?nvid=305037

Complete interview with the boy (29 mins)

 

[MeoW333]

He thinks he shot his dad "because he was suffering".
Most likely his dad taught him to kill animals completely so they don't suffer..

 

[MeoW333]

The boy claims he shot both of them in the interview "so they wouldn't suffer" as they were shot already.
This boy has misused his hunting training..
(The interview link posted above is 29 mins that is recorded out of the hours worth)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He thinks he shot his dad "because he was suffering".
Most likely his dad taught him to kill animals completely so they don't suffer..

My gosh......this was his DAD and his friend and he just shoots them to get them out of their misery. What about finding your dad and his friend still quivering and shaking and calling 911 immediately to get medical help ASAP! He is using the spin of not making them suffer like his dad taught him to respect the animals enough to not make them suffer.

This boy knows the difference in an animal and human beings!

He setting up his ruse that he shot them after the unknown gunman had already shot them, with his own weapon, out of all the weapons there to chose from, and he just shot them again to finish them off.

This boy has major issues.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

My gosh......this was his DAD and his friend and he just shoots them to get them out of their misery. What about finding your dad and his friend still quivering and shaking and calling 911 immediately to get medical help ASAP!

This boy knows the difference in an animal and human beings!

He setting up his ruse that he shot them after the unknown gunman had already shot them, with his own weapon, out of all the weapons there to chose from, and he just shot them again to finish them off.

This boy has major issues.

imoo

He has major issues which is why he should have never been allowed to get a gun to begin with. Normal children would call 911; instead this boy decided to "to put them out of their suffering" like an animal.
Maybe he knows the difference; yet obviously he doesn't care.

..Around minutes 24:00 of the video he claims he gets in trouble a lot.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The boy claims he shot both of them in the interview "so they wouldn't suffer" as they were shot already.
This boy has misused his hunting training..
(The interview link posted above is 29 mins that is recorded out of the hours worth)

Where does it say this boy was questioned for hours?

The video stated complete interview.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He has major issues which is why he should have never been allowed to get a gun to begin with. Normal children would call 911; instead this boy decided to "to put them out of their suffering" like an animal.
Maybe he knows the difference; yet obviously he doesn't care.

..Around minutes 24:00 of the video he claims he gets in trouble a lot.

Just because he got in trouble a lot would not be an indicator for the father not to allow him to go hunting with him. Most kids aren't perfect and can get in trouble a lot.......just growing pains.

It seems there were no outward indicators at all about this boy. He had no discipline problems in school and seemed to be well liked in his community.

The dad had no reason to not trust his son to respect the safety instructions he laid down for him to follow concerning gun safety.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi

It was really hard to hear this interview.I honestly got the feeling when I heard this little boy.He had no idea what happened.He said he shot them when the police officers were getting impatient with him.This interview should have never happened with out his lawyer or others in the room with this little boy.It did not sound like he was being interviewed as a witness at all here.Twice he said the other man was asleep?I thought he was on the phone?

suzanne

 

[MeoW333]

Where does it say this boy was questioned for hours?

The video stated complete interview.

OBE you have to watch the video and you will see that the clip is in the middle of when the camera started running (its the uncut 29-30mins clip) the camera has already started rolling an hour and half some odd minutes before the footage we see.

 

[MeoW333]

Just because he got in trouble a lot would not be an indicator for the father not to allow him to go hunting with him. Most kids aren't perfect and can get in trouble a lot.......just growing pains.

It seems there were no outward indicators at all about this boy. He had no discipline problems in school and seemed to be well liked in his community.

The dad had no reason to not trust his son to respect the safety instructions he laid down for him to follow concerning gun safety.

imoo

Unfortunately the boy followed his instructions (which must have been not to let things suffer) and killed his dad and Tim Romans. He should have never been allowed to have a gun period. His dad was even unsure about it to begin with; that's why he had to ask a priest. Now 2 innocent people are dead and the 8 year old just ruined his own life. Some children just aren't ready or just shouldn't be using guns at all, OBE. This child was one who should have never had access to guns, let alone owned one.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ya gotta start somewhere. I think he was simply an overachiever.

Let's let him walk, have outpatient therapy and see if he'll have a repetitive and persistent pattern at 13......I'm placing my bet on him fulfilling the requirements!

Well all I can say is stay tuned. He just might make that list after all.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Unfortunately the boy followed his instructions (which must have been not to let things suffer) and killed his dad and Tim Romans. He should have never been allowed to have a gun period. His dad was even unsure about it to begin with; that's why he had to ask a priest. Now 2 innocent people are dead and the 8 year old just ruined his own life. Some children just aren't ready or just shouldn't be using guns at all, OBE. This child was one who should have never had access to guns, let alone owned one.

I don't think he was unsure. I do think he was a Christian man who sought guidance when it came to his son and evidently the Priest thought it was okay.

There is nothing so far that would indicate the father would have known that he was a danger to anyone.

imoo

 

[MCDRAW]

Unfortunately the boy followed his instructions (which must have been not to let things suffer) and killed his dad and Tim Romans. He should have never been allowed to have a gun period. His dad was even unsure about it to begin with; that's why he had to ask a priest. Now 2 innocent people are dead and the 8 year old just ruined his own life. Some children just aren't ready or just shouldn't be using guns at all, OBE. This child was one who should have never had access to guns, let alone owned one.

If what they say is true and he planned these murders for awhile. Then he would have found a way to kill them with or without a gun. Apparently there were no warning signs so there really was no way for anyone to stop him. No one was suspicious of this child. As far as the priest goes, I figure the Dad only asked to see what an appropriate age would be. Not if his child might be a killer.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
He says in the interview.I might have shot the gun?They ask him at the end of the interview something like did you shoot them or the gun?The little boy says I think so.I don't see where this is a confession.Maybe I'm not hearing this right.Is there a transcript of this interview some where.I'm not saying he did or did not kill these two men.I would have to see all the crime scene evidence.

suzanne