AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[MeoW333]

Hi
Thankyou for this link oceanblueeyes.The news paper articles said
QUOTE
Romero and Romans were struck about five times each, authorities said, with a .22-caliber rifle that must be reloaded after every shot.

Can I please ask was the man shot all 5 times outside?So,this little boy or who ever shot these shots did so outside?He or someone had to reload this gun 5 times outside and no one saw this?In the day time?

suzanne

That sure is odd no onw saw or heard anything? There was blood towards Mr Roman's truck as well so he had to have been outside at some point.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Thankyou for this link oceanblueeyes.The news paper articles said
QUOTE
Romero and Romans were struck about five times each, authorities said, with a .22-caliber rifle that must be reloaded after every shot.

Can I please ask was the man shot all 5 times outside?So,this little boy or who ever shot these shots did so outside?He or someone had to reload this gun 5 times outside and noone saw this?In the day time?

suzanne

I really don't know.......the investigators will have all the trajectory patterns figured out when it goes to trial. I believe most of these shots were fired from inside the home outward toward Mr. Romans as he advanced toward the house. So even though the shots were fired from inside the home with them being shot out toward TR into the open space those shots would be heard by the neighbors across the street.

They also will be able to tell where the shooter was standing each time they fired and if the victims were standing upright when each shot was fired or if they were already down.

Also I find it odd when the boy talked about that he would have a lot of gun residue on his clothing. First a 22 rifle does not emit smoke out of the barrel that can even be seen with the naked eye. So I am a little puzzled by that.

imo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Thankyou.I'm really confused now.LOL.That makes no sense to me.wouldn't the casings be in the house if he fired from in the house?Where were the casings found outside?It makes no sense to me he fired from inside the house if the bullet hole in the screen door was hit from the outside.Do you see what I am trying to say?There was blood near the car?Was he shot near the car and went towards the house to run in the house?

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Thankyou.I'm really confused now.LOL.That make no sense to me.wouldn't the casings be in the house if he fired from in the house?Where were the casings found outside?It makes no sense to me he fired from inside the house if the bullet hole in the screen door was hit from the outside.Do you see what I am trying to say?There was blood near the car?Was he shot near the car?

suzanne

We have no idea where he was shooting from each time by the casing location imo. They will know much more due to trajectory. Remember these spent casings must be physically removed from this gun each time and most likely the perp is moving not staying still. They don't automatically eject themselves at the time of fire. Weren't most of them close to the door area? LOL, I have forgotten now. I guess I need to go back and read again.

I really don't know about the one they thought entered the metal screen door. I am sure they will tighten it down further than their first initial investigation concerning it. They will be able to see where the bullet went through and it had to strike something and be embedded somewhere there inside if true.

This home sits so close to the road that the parked vehicle would be close to the home. IIRC liljim said that there was a blood trickle of about 24 feet that went from where his body lay back toward the vehicle. So imo, he didn't get far but I think the house just sits a few yards of the road maybe like 40 feet or even less etc.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Ok,Thankyou.I do not know anything about guns.I'm sorry.So the casings don't fly after you shoot the gun?You have to take them out?So from inside the house or the door way.He or someone reloads his gun 5 times and puts them near the body?and no one saw this?It does make sense he is moving.But towards the house right?the man was found dead on the front porch.

suzanne

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
QUOTE
IIRC liljim said that there was a blood trickle of about 24 feet that went from where his body lay back toward the vehicle.

Ok,this is what it looks like to me so far.The man is shot near the car.He tries to run towards the house.Someone misses a shot at him and it hits the screen door from the outside.They shoot him again at the front porch.He is shot a few times running or trying to get towards the house.

Maybe who ever shot them and killed them killed the father first and then waited outside for Mr Romans to get home to kill him too.I haven't seen all the evidence so I have no idea what happened.I'm just thinking right now.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Ok,Thankyou.I do not know anything about guns.I'm sorry.So the casings don't fly after you shoot the gun?You have to take them out?So from inside the house or the door way.He or someone reloads his gun 5 times and puts them near the body?and no one saw this?It does make sense he is moving.But towards the house right?the man was found dead on the front porch.

suzanne

That is right. This was a youth model bolt action, single shot rifle where bolt lever has to be pulled back to put bullet in then shoved forward and has to be pulled back to get casing out and repeated. Very simple procedure though. Can be done very quickly especially if someone is familiar with the weapon.

Well we don't know the evidence so it is hard to say but one thing we do know whomever the killer was ......no one saw a thing. All they heard were multiple gunshots. So whomever this person is, yes they were able to do all these things it seems.

With all the other weapons in this home a 22 single shot rifle would not be a choice most killers would make imo. They would take a much higher powered gun that would not need so many shots to get the job done and they wouldn't have to reload every time.

 

[chiperoni]

I really enjoyed your post. When I was 8 yrs old, I was often left home alone for about an hour at a time, WITH loaded guns, I was an extremely trustworthy child, responsible and all around good kid. I never touched the guns, ever when alone. I did know how to use them & often went target shooting with my dad. I was taught to respect them.

My son is now 10, and while I am comfortable leaving him home alone while I run to the convenience store, 20 minutes max.....He's a great kid and pretty trustworthy. ....BUT.....I would NEVER leave him alone with loaded guns within his reach. Matter of fact......I've read about too many horrific stories, and well it's simply not a risk I am willing to take. I don't have any guns in my home.

It isn't child neglect. I don't agree with this post and please don't presume to speak for me in the future.

It is very common for children this age to own and use guns. The whole world isn't raised in an apartment complex.

Agree 100%

Hi Linda that was a pretty harsh response from Garman when my intention was to say that most of us agree that small children should not be left unsupervised with guns. I guess I will unapologize to you.since you presently think it is a risk you refuse to take. My own opinion is that it is neglect. I try to be thoughtful about my posts and I felt attacked. You agree 100%? Hardly and I'm glad. I wasn't raised in an apartment complex.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hi Linda that was a pretty harsh response from Garman when my intention was to say that most of us agree that small children should not be left unsupervised with guns. I guess I will unapologize to you.since you presently think it is a risk you refuse to take. My own opinion is that it is neglect. I try to be thoughtful about my posts and I felt attacked. You agree 100%? Hardly and I'm glad. I wasn't raised in an apartment complex.

No need to apologize! We all have are own ideas and opinions! The hard part, for me.........is respecting others people's:crazy: when typing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Once the defense attorneys get involved there will be "sexual abuse" whether it happened or not. IMO

agree

 

[SoobsinMI]

Playing devils advocate here for a moment..

And other posters here see a HUGE difference between an innocent little 8 year old boy and an 8 year old psychopathic murderer and their actions. Probably because they have had Psychopaths in their homes.. they do not process things the same way. At all.

Like you, those people have a right to their opinion.

I don't recall stating that one wasn't entitled to their opinion. And IIRC, we were speaking specifically about an 8 year old and a 16 year old. Not an "8 year old psychopathic murderer (of which there hasn't been a diagnosis yet) and an "innocent little 8 year old boy."

 

[Trino]

There's a difference in an 8 yr old gaining access to a gun and accidentally shooting someone and what this 8 yr old did. He reloaded a weapon to fire 10 times into two individuals - without remorse. IMO even if a gun had not been in the house, this boy would have found a way to harm his father.

 

[tfrohning]

This case is unbeliveable. I been following the case., I am not sure what to think. I lived in rural Illinois, Every one that I know hunts. my nephew went hunting for the first time yesterday he will 11 in Feburay. My grand son (5 years) just got his first bb gun. The bb gun is lock up, when he wants to use it my husband or his dad must unlock the gun and they do not leave his side when he is shooting. I know around here if a animal is injury
the guy will shoot so they won't suffer. I remeber this little boy saying that in the inview.
I do not think that little 8 years old need to be tried has adult. Yes he need help but jails or juvie is not going to help him. I am not sure what the answer for theses kids that kill. There a lot more to come from this case.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Ok,Thankyou.I do not know anything about guns.I'm sorry.So the casings don't fly after you shoot the gun?You have to take them out?So from inside the house or the door way.He or someone reloads his gun 5 times and puts them near the body?and no one saw this?It does make sense he is moving.But towards the house right?the man was found dead on the front porch.

suzanne

I understand the outside shot into the metal door more. I went back and read the transcript again.

They said the metal door was open and up against Mr. Romans head when they arrived. I think the perp stepped outside of the house fired at Romans head but missed and it went into the door. They did find the bullet lodged in the bottom of the metal door frame. So it would mean the person would have been standing pretty much over him shooting at a downward angle, that is why the bullet lodged into the lower frame of the door instead of going straight through into the home.

It seems even though hit Romans still tried to keep coming toward the house. He was shot in the arm and then about three shots to the chest and I believe the other shots fired were into his head.

So if the blood trickle went back toward where the truck was.... the truck did not sit far from where he died on the front porch.

imoo

 

[PattyCake]

The charge against his dad is going to be dropped but not the roommate. I wonder why? I suspect they may have found 'proof' of abuse on behalf of the father which would have come down to self defense possibly? But then why would a child kill the roommate?
Charges to be dropped tomorrow against the death of the dad.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
How do the police think it happened and how his father died?

suzanne

 

[PattyCake]

Doesn't say at all. There's a media ban. I hope eventually we'll know why.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/21/boy.murder.case/index.html

 

[SoobsinMI]

I understand the outside shot into the metal door more. I went back and read the transcript again.

They said the metal door was open and up against Mr. Romans head when they arrived. I think the perp stepped outside of the house fired at Romans head but missed and it went into the door. They did find the bullet lodged in the bottom of the metal door frame. So it would mean the person would have been standing pretty much over him shooting at a downward angle, that is why the bullet lodged into the lower frame of the door instead of going straight through into the home.

It seems even though hit Romans still tried to keep coming toward the house. He was shot in the arm and then about three shots to the chest and I believe the other shots fired were into his head.

So if the blood trickle went back toward where the truck was.... the truck did not sit far from where he died on the front porch.

imoo

So, he hit Mr. Romans four times, from a distance but missed when he was practically standing over him? There are so many questions about this case....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The charge against his dad is going to be dropped but not the roommate. I wonder why? I suspect they may have found 'proof' of abuse on behalf of the father which would have come down to self defense possibly? But then why would a child kill the roommate?
Charges to be dropped tomorrow against the death of the dad.

Abuse by his father? His father still had his work overalls on, jacket, boots, hard hat and even his goggles on when murdered going up the stairs in his home. They can pull one of the charges and hold it to a later date. IMO the father's case is the tighter one. They will go with Romans first because this boy had no bond with this man.

This is the same thing that happened in the Darlie Routier case. They pulled the murder charge on her youngest son even though they knew she had murdered them both. They held it in case she was found not guilty on the first murder charge or had received a lighter sentence than life. When she got death there was no need to go forward.

They can try him anytime at a later day that they wish because there is no time limitations on murder charges being refiled. The DA made it very clear that his motion was bolded with WITHOUT PREJUDICE which means he is letting them know he can refile at anytime he chooses. If he had discovered a legitimate reason for the murder he would have filed motion to dismiss and would have bolded WITH PREJUDICE which means he doesn't ever intend to file charges again.

IMO, he is not going to try the two murders together in juvenile court knowing that he will get the same punishment as if he had only killed one.

imoo

 

[twinkiesmom]

The charge against his dad is going to be dropped but not the roommate. I wonder why? I suspect they may have found 'proof' of abuse on behalf of the father which would have come down to self defense possibly? But then why would a child kill the roommate?
Charges to be dropped tomorrow against the death of the dad.

Naw, I think this is a tactical move based on the boy's interview not coming in because it was done improperly. They have independent proof that the boy killed Roamans due to the wife on the phone and her being able to testify that the boy called him in prior to his being shot. They are probably worried about the dad's case ending in an acquittal, so they are dismissing the charge to focus on the one with the best independent proof.