AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Shock]

Or maybe they did suspect him and reacted poorly.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I still wonder if the bio mom didn't have something to do with the shootings. If she didn't put the idea in the boy's head because she wanted him to live with her and with dad out of the way she thought that could happen. She probably didn't think the boy would be arrested or charged because of his age. She could have really reinforced his feelings about the spanking, etc.
If she did put this idea in his head she must have really convinced him that he could never tell anyone or she would go to jail and he would never see her again.

I'm wondering also.
In my first marriage I had a step-son who lived with us for a while, his parents had divorced when he was very young and when he lived with his mother there were many different men, she never did what was needed to provide him a good home. Even tho she was a poor excuse for a mother, that boy loved her more than anything! There was a bond there that was never broken even tho she chose a man over him and would go months with no contact, no gifts etc. Years later when he was able to he went back to where she was, imo he will always chose to be near her and will never see the truth of how she was with him.
I hope the truth can be found out why and how this happened. If for some reason this boy wanted his father dead, why shoot the other man?

VB

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I feel this little boy should not have been arrested until ALL this information was in.I feel they really jumped the gun here.

suzanne

I don't remember any other case that involved juveniles where LE waited for all the information to come back in. Do you know of such a case. I know sometimes if the crime is not solved for months or more and the perp remains unknown, then months later after DNA results are found, then arrest can be made but not one where LE and the DA has already found the killer and think they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

If a Judge saw probable cause to believe he was involved then that is what is required. Not that all evidence or information must be known before even an arrest.

Don't you have people arrested, right after a crime where you live? There is no way they can have all the evidence in a case by that time. That is why there is the discovery rule where all information concerning the ongoing investigation is turned over by the State and the Defense, in a certain amount of time before a trial. The Judge clearly knows that it takes time to get the results back on any ongoing investigation.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Sigh.Well,maybe they will learn from thier mistakes.

 

[Shock]

It is odd that if the boy wanted his dad dead, if in fact he did, that he would shoot, if he did, Mr. Romans. An 8 year old wanting to do away with a witness seems a stretch. Where's the motive?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Okay, let's go back to the beginning. One question at a time, if that's alright with everyone.

Both the father and his room mate were home before the child was, right? Son found father in upstairs bedroom, saw him "suffering", and then shot him to, basically, "put him out of misery/suffering".

 

[Shock]

The boy got off his school bus around 3:30 pm. The men got home a little before 5:00 pm.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The boy got off his school bus around 3:30 pm. The men got home a little before 5:00 pm.

That's right. He was left home alone for 1 1/2 hours. Still, the child stated he went upstairs to the bedroom and found his father suffering. So, he shot him to help him stop suffering.

So, if the neighbors heard these shots when shooting was being done to room mate, why didn't the room mate hear the shots from within the house? Okay, he was on his mobile phone, but standing right outside the home. It has been said the child called him to the house and then shot him. This does not make sense to me....

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I'm sorry.I did not mean to be harsh.I'm usually not.It's just everything was a real mess.It's just real sad for everyone.I just pray God has in hand in this and I do trust Judge Roca is a very fair judge to do the right thing.

 

[Shock]

Why Mr. Romans didn't hear the shots is a matter of debate. Sgt. Webb Hoyle of the Apache County Sheriffs dept. testified that .22 cartridges are sub-sonic, less than 1125 fps. And only make a loud 'pop' and would be muffled inside the house. Truth is that some .22s are sub-sonic and some aren't. High velocity 22s are in the 1600 fps range.
Anyway, a .22 produces about 126 db (decibels). A standard car horn produces about 120 db. Could you hear a car horn inside your house from around 50'? Oh, and the front door was open.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Why Mr. Romans didn't hear the shots is a matter of debate. Sgt. Webb Hoyle of the Apache County Sheriffs dept. testified that .22 cartridges are sub-sonic, less than 1125 fps. And only make a loud 'pop' and would be muffled inside the house. Truth is that some .22s are sub-sonic and some aren't. High velocity 22s are in the 1600 fps range.
Anyway, a .22 produces about 126 db (decibels). A standard car horn produces about 120 db. Could you hear a car horn inside your house from around 50'? Oh, and the front door was open.

For the sake of argument, the gun was used from within the house to shoot Romans. So, if it is a "muffled" sound, how is it neighbors claimed to have heard the shots, yet Romans (we can safely assume) never heard the shots from the house proper? Does not add up, imo. There is something seriously amiss here and that's just with this.

 

[Shock]

I think the argument is that Mr. Romans was shot from the front porch causing the sound to be unmuffled and allowing the neighbors to hear them. I'm with you, though, the indoor shots should have been heard from the truck parked outside the front door. It also brings into question why Mr. Romans walked into the gunfire (a blood trail was found from the truck to where he fell [about 24' they say]).

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Apparantly only about two neighbors heard shots or popping noises.I am just surprised no one saw anything or this little boy with a gun about as big as he is shooting anyone.

suzanne

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I think the argument is that Mr. Romans was shot from the front porch causing the sound to be unmuffled and allowing the neighbors to hear them. I'm with you, though, the indoor shots should have been heard from the truck parked outside the front door. It also brings into question why Mr. Romans walked into the gunfire (a blood trail was found from the truck to where he fell [about 24' they say]).

Exactly. I agree with you on one very strong point. Who keeps walking into gunfire especially after being shot? I get that perhaps adrenaline may kick in and not notice being hit the first time, but the rest??? Gut/protection kicks in for oneself. Run, hide, and protect oneself.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I agree.I said before why would he go towards someone shooting him.Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Shock]

Another odd thing, is the rifle itself. As I've said before it takes a good shooter about six seconds to aim, fire, eject, load, pull back hammer pin, aim, and fire again. That's a good shooter with a steady hand. If the boy is left-handed it would take longer. .22s are very small and a single shot is awkward to load. It's surprising that the boy, if he did it, didn't drop any unspent rounds, or that none were found in his pocket.
Anyway, for Mr. Roman to have been shot twice in the chest before falling he would have had to waited to be shot. Even an old coot like me can cover 24' in much less than 12 seconds. The distance from the truck to the front door looks much shorter in the photos. I still think a .22 semi-automatic was used.

 

[fran]

That's right. He was left home alone for 1 1/2 hours. Still, the child stated he went upstairs to the bedroom and found his father suffering. So, he shot him to help him stop suffering.

So, if the neighbors heard these shots when shooting was being done to room mate, why didn't the room mate hear the shots from within the house? Okay, he was on his mobile phone, but standing right outside the home. It has been said the child called him to the house and then shot him. This does not make sense to me....

I agree with you OL. Doesn't make sense to me either. Perhaps LE is starting to question their own scenario. Something is just NOT right here.

I'm sorry, I just can't see this young of a child being able to speed reload and fire before either one of these fully grown adult males could have overtaken him. No way. PLUS the sound from the first person being shot drawing attention of the second victim.

Something just doesn't add up here.

JMHO
fran

 

[Shock]

A rush to judgement?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree with you OL. Doesn't make sense to me either. Perhaps LE is starting to question their own scenario. Something is just NOT right here.

I'm sorry, I just can't see this young of a child being able to speed reload and fire before either one of these fully grown adult males could have overtaken him. No way. PLUS the sound from the first person being shot drawing attention of the second victim.

Something just doesn't add up here.

JMHO
fran

Hi Fran!!! :blowkiss:

I have been Googling myself stupid here today and sadly, I cannot find a thing related to this case without media news. Different day, same "stuff". I would like to know more about the family dynamics. I have questions concerning home life, step mom, and a renter. As far as the bio Mom goes, I honestly/gut feel she has had no imput to this. I have a HUGE hinky about something and I have been trying to work it out. To no avail at the moment.

I agree with Shock. The shootings make no sense, the timing seems off, and simply this childs demeanor.... All I can think of is he being taught, when shooting, that you do not let an animal suffer. Put it to peace. I think he did that to his father. In the mind of an 8 year old, he was doing what Dad taught him to.

There is so much more. It's irritating the hell out of me that I can't find what I'm looking for or, to put it better, it won't stand out for me to find! I know it's there. I just know it is.....

 

[OrdinaryLife]

A rush to judgement?

Yes.