AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Bobbisangel]

Where are the transcripts that you guys are reading?

 

[MeoW333]

Yes, he was a Native American I believe.

I believe the surname Romans is Spanish. He may have been mixed with Spanish and Native American. Many people with mixed ancestry of Native American can pass off as either black; white; or hispanic. Depends on whose genes went where.. not that it's relevant to the case

 

[MeoW333]

He also said that he knew the neighborhood and figured it was a drug overdose.
Anyway, Mr. Roman was face down when Sgt. Rodriguez found him. By that time, 30 to 45 minutes after the murder, blood had drained from the upper capillaries and collected in the lower capillaries. Upper surfaces, back and shoulders, would become pale, while the lower surfaces, (face in this case) would become dark. After an hour or more, and depending on ambient temperature, it may appear black.
That's why undertakers drain the blood, then use formaldehyde, methanol, ethanol, and other chemicals to preserve the body. It works at least until burial. Sometimes longer.

Liver mortis..

 

[MeoW333]

Okay - the kid was a hunter, knew that if you shot an animal it died. Hopefully, he was taught that if you shot an animal, you used it for food. So he would have known that if he shot a person, the person would die.

It sounds like, from the placement of the bullets, that who ever shot these two men, wanted them dead. Why would the kid not call 911 rather than "ending their suffering" so to speak?

Do you think TR walked into the line of fire because he saw it was the kid and he did think he could overtake the boy? Maybe thinking the boy was not shooting to kill but just to scare him for some reason? Was TR the kind of man that might have laughed or teased a young boy for getting a spanking? Or was he maybe the kind of man that would not tolerate elaborate stories from a kid and would call the kid on them?

Where did we get the info that the kid was a compulsive liar? I did not see that in any of the links. Then, if it is true, why would not a compulsively lieing kid ever get in trouble at school? That doesn't make sense to me.

Okay, I think that is the last of my 20 questions for now. This case appears to be pretty complex. I'm confused by the description of the bullets hits for both men. They were shot and at least knocked off their feet and then shot again in the head to ensure they were down for good. This is almost execution type killing and it perplexes me that a child of 8 years could carry out such a plan.

Salem

Salem, i think all of what your post said is plausible theories. You would think with the rifle being a low powered "starter rifle" for children; one of the men would at least try and overpower the boy. There is a reason the boy killed Mr. Romans as well; maybe one you have listed; could be another we've not heard about yet.
For all we know Mr. Romans and Vincent could have had one too many beers after work and teased the boy or took out anger from the work day on him..
IMO (just speculating) if the men were alcoholics and someone told the boy it was a disease or sickness, maybe he thought he was ending their suffering in that regard..?

It is very perplexing about the killings and the shots fired. I think LE should take the child down to their shooting range for some "target practice" using the same gun used in the killings and see exactly how skilled he is. For a single shot gun; one that has to be reloaded, he seems the excellent marksman.

 

[MeoW333]

Why would he be outside with nothing on but a jacket? I'm sure he had on his jeans and shirt...underwear if he wears them and his shoes and socks. The two men had just gotten home from work and they were probably still both dressed in their work clothes. The dad was headed upstairs...probably to change and Tim hadn't even gone into the house yet.

It sounds like a slight on the person who reported that; i would assume Mr. Romans still had his work clothes on.

 

[MeoW333]

OBE, thank you for linking us to the crime scene photos
Here is the link again so some don't have to backtrack:
http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/news/18019101/detail.html

I am one of those whose computer won't zoom in; nor will it let me save the pictures off the site so i can zoom with photoshop.

In picture #10 of which it appears a bullet went through a screen door? Is that a screen door? I am confused as it appears to be metal not screen, do people around those parts have doors like that that are referred to as screen?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
On a random note; i'm not sure if we should make judgement on the custody factor yet. There are so many cases that get screwed by the system in which a good parent is fighting for custody against a parent who is clearly not in the best interest of the child. I have a friend who is trying to get custody of his daughter (would drive 8 hours every weekend just to see her a couple hours) and the mother has had custody and repeatedly takes off to unknown whereabouts with the child. We all know the system can be screwy. Without knowing more background about the divorce it's too early to make judgement. We know the mother let someone blow smoke into the boy's ear to "cure" an ear infection and another poster had mentioned it's an old asian cure. Granted it was a stupid idea for the mother to have someone smoke or for her to smoke around the child as his lungs are underdeveloped. Lord knows how many parents smoke around their children who have asthma or respiratory conditions.
Does anyone have more info about the daughter Vincent Romero had from a previous woman? It was mentioned in his obituary.
I can try and find the link if someone wants; just let me know..

 

[Trino]

Does anyone have a link to the obits?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzannec4444
Ok,I looked at the transcripts a little bit.The police officer stated the body just had a Jack--had a heavy jacket:carhartt.It didn't state the color of the jacket there.He also stated the body was dark complected skin

Why would he be outside with nothing on but a jacket? I'm sure he had on his jeans and shirt...underwear if he wears them and his shoes and socks. The two men had just gotten home from work and they were probably still both dressed in their work clothes. The dad was headed upstairs...probably to change and Tim hadn't even gone into the house yet.

I put what was said from the transcriptips about the jacket because we were discussing what Mr Romans was wearing and his Jacket and this was what I could find..I'm sure they were fully dressed too.At least I hope so.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, yes, yes! Why? Would you not duck for cover until you figured out what was happening - especially after you took a hit? I'm not getting this?

Salem

Good Morning!

Just popping in for a sec before I get busy but I was thinking maybe that was why Mr. Romans was coming up from the left side onto the porch. Maybe he thought that the shots were being fired from the doorway of the home, maybe even thought they were being fired through the screen and he was trying to avoid that line of fire. Was his truck sitting to the left or to the right of the door? I will have to find the pictures again and look again.

I did find it interesting that he dies almost right where the one ivy bush is on the left side facing the home. Could the shooter have already been behind that bush and he did not realize that until it was too late? Where were the bullet casings located in that area? I have forgotten the location but they were all found around the porch area and one was trapped in the doorway track, weren't they?

The door is called a screen door but it is made of metal which has small perforations in it and is a security door.

The dog crate was probably for the boy's Boxer puppy he had. Usually those crates are larger.

Just thinking out loud. lol

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzannec4444
Ok,I looked at the transcripts a little bit.The police officer stated the body just had a Jack--had a heavy jacket:carhartt.It didn't state the color of the jacket there.He also stated the body was dark complected skin







I put what was said from the transcripts about the jacket because we were discussing what Mr Romans was wearing and his Jacket and this was what I could find..I'm sure they were fully dressed too.At least I hope so.

Yes, they both were fully dressed. LE doesn't give every minute detail of what a victim was wearing. Just the basic attire that caught their eye at the time.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I have heard they were fully dressed.I am interested about the belt found on the stairway though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This must be Tim's truck with the door still ajar. These photos were taken the next day. There are ones done that night but the photos are very dark due to it being taken at night but in some of those I did notice that the taillights were still on, like they had left the parking lights on or something. How dark was it getting when VR and Tim came in I wonder?

But anyway here is one of his truck. http://www.abc15.com/Photo.aspx?sli...e0&photo=6012e6e4-fe4f-4cad-9570-5dd399d4f9e4

It does seem to me like he was trying to come up at an angle probably trying to avoid being hit by gunfire that he may have thought was being shot from inside the home at that time. It had to be very chaotic at that time and he only had 24 feet to make split second decisions.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You can also see a very good picture of the gun in this same slide show.

It shows it is not a big or a cumbersome weapon at all but extremely lightweight and easy to handle.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I wonder if Mr Romans was being shot at from around the side somewhere or from a car to still be shot in the chest and keep going towards the front door.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have heard they were fully dressed.I am interested about the belt found on the stairway though.

Belt?! I think this is huge clue as to what could have been going on in that house at the time.

1,000 spankings is abuse. I don't care how you look at it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I wonder if Mr Romans was being shot at from around the side somewhere or from a car to still be shot in the chest and keep going towards the front door.

All around this home it is very open and has no obstructions of view anywhere but where the front porch is where the ivy bushes are growing on the support work.

How would he be able to be shot in the chest, twice? A car would have been behind him where the street was? He even gets out of the passenger side which would have obstructed anyone's view of him from the street. He got out on the side closest to the house.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

Belt?! I think this is huge clue as to what could have been going on in that house at the time.

1,000 spankings is abuse. I don't care how you look at it.

Not really, considering clothes & other stuff were strewn all over, they weren't what anyone would call tidy housekeepers.

The kid said 1000....there's nothing to back that up but his word.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Not really, considering clothes & other stuff were strewn all over, they weren't what anyone would call tidy housekeepers.

The kid said 1000....there's nothing to back that up but his word.

I am interested in what the grandmother said concerning the way he was treated. She might know a lot more and could possibly back him up on that front.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not really, considering clothes & other stuff were strewn all over, they weren't what anyone would call tidy housekeepers.

The kid said 1000....there's nothing to back that up but his word.

I have to agree Linda and he never mentions that he was going to be spanked that day. That home is littered with all sorts of clothing and other items strewn everywhere. I wonder how long they had lived there. I did see some boxes in some of the photos. I did read that he and Tiffany had just recently built their home.

I think the 1,000! shows the active imagination of a child to make it BIG! No way would he patiently sit there waiting until his 1000th spanking if he had already compartmentalized so much rage imo.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

QUOTE
How would he be able to be shot in the chest, twice? A car would have been behind him where the street was? He even gets out of the passenger side which would have obstructed anyone's view of him from the street. He got out on the side closest to the house.

From the house or around the house next to them.

I did not see any clothes found near this belt.