AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[MeoW333]

I'm going to quote myself here MeoW333 because I think it may interest you:


Here's the link:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...?currentPage=8

snipped

Gitana, thank you for the link, it is a very interesting read

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think one is needed quite yet. There simply aren't enough "facts" and since there will not be more coming out anytime soon...it would dead end quickly, imo.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I think they started something like that somewhere else.I will check where I can find somewhere.

 

[MeoW333]

A sociopath is a person born without a conscience. There is no way that we can do anything about that. That is just the way they are made. That is a known fact.

I would never take in a child that is a sociopath. By doing that I would be putting myself at risk and everyone that I am in contact with including my own grandkids and great grandkids. I can't imagine anyone putting their own family at risk just to take in a child that can't be helped.

It's a biological; perhaps genetic defect; if scientists and researchers can figure out what is causing it, they may be able to prevent it and treat it. Brain scans show that the area in the brain that controls impulse is not developed, among other things.

Gitana gave a link to a very good article which i'll repost the link again:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/10/081110fa_fact_seabrook?currentPage=8

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Gitana1,

Do you think there is a possibility that this boy suffers from an Attachment Disorder. His mother left him when he was 2 years old.

It seems from the literature that makes the child devoid of feelings and no matter what, may feel they are unloved and are unattached to others.

http://www.focusas.com/Attachment.html

Excerpt:

Specifically if a child experiences any of the following in the first three years of life, that child is at risk for Attachment Disorder:

Drug or alcohol use by mother during pregnancy

Unwanted pregnancy

Caring for the infant on a timed schedule, or other self-centered parenting

Sudden abandonment or separation from mother (death of mother, illness of mother or child, or adoption)

Physical abuse, sexual abuse, or emotional abuse

Neglect of physical or emotional needs

Several family moves and/or daycare or foster placements

Inconsistent/inadequate care or daycare

Unprepared mothers, poor parenting skills, inconsistent responses to child

Mothers with depression

Undiagnosed or painful illnesses (ear infections, colic, surgery)

 

[MeoW333]

Quote
Is LE really going to claim that the boy wasn't a suspect?

Really.I want to know this too.

If LE tries to claim that, i doubt it will work. Even if their interrogation started as a witness interview, it is evident that it turned into a criminal interrogation, that of which they failed to read the boy his Miranda rights.

 

[mysteriew]

I agree and many of these people from very early on showed no conscience. You can't grow a conscience and transplant it into someone that has absolutely no idea or cares what it is.

Look at what Joesph Duncan was capable of doing as a younger child when he was already binding and raping little 5 year old boys by 8 years old. I believe some people are born just broken and have a disconnect.

Sociopaths and psychopaths are not treatable. They are who they are and always will be.

They even sent Duncan to a mental health facility when he was arrested at 14 or 15. The psychologists found him untreatable and that is why he served out his 20 years in prison. He just couldn't be fixed yet he was placed back into society to become one of the most sadistic, depraved pedophile, multiple murderers in recent years. No abuse was ever found to have happened in his life.

imo

But Duncan had a history. Most psychopaths do have a history before they graduate to murder. The history may include fighting, skipping school, petty theft, torture of animals and other anti-social behaviors. They usually start with lesser crimes and work up to major ones. That is the part that gets me this kid doesn't have the history. He just got up one day and became psychopathic? This kid's history is that he says he lies. Which if you take his words literally means that you can't believe him when he says he lies. I mean what kid who lies actually admits it?

I was thinking about this kid this morning. It is said that boys mature emotionally later than girls. This means this kid probably had the emotional maturity of about a 7 year old girl. Boys of this age are also very imaginative and impressionable.

I will admit to some prejudice in this case. Ok, a lot of prejudice. First, I don't really want to believe that an 8 year old child has the capability to plan carryout a murder. I don't want to believe that they have the capability to develop a cover story that is realistic enough that LE begins to interview them as a 'witness'. I am also very much against any LE interviewing any kid without a related adult present. Simply because a child is so imaginative, impressionable and easy to intimidate. You put him with an adult in a uniform, he is going to admit to anything he is accused of simply because he has been taught you are supposed to trust and agree with authority figures. And at this age, kids live a lot in fantasy. And since he was apparently spanked the night before, I wonder if he didn't fantasize about getting even with his father the night before, therefore when the officer said he did it, maybe he really thought he did. It has happened before.

I wonder how many of the officers who interviewed him had children or had experience with children?

 

[Shock]

Wow. Guess I gotta put down Guns and Ammo and pick up a shrink magazine. I'm more interested in the physical aspect of this case (the boy would have to be a super human single shot rifleman with ice water in his veins to have done this), but it looks like the psychologist may well have the final say no matter what happened.
Thanks for broadening a hillbilly's perspective.

 

[colette]

I agree that some kids are just "broken." I do believe in "evil." I am not ready to say that THIS child is broken and evil....we do NOT have enough information to form an opinion about this child, in this respect, yet. IMO, of course. All we really know about him is that he's 8 years old, he got in trouble for not bringing his homework home, he has had NO disciplinary problems at school, and his father and a boarder are dead.

Actually we do know more... both his grandparents and most likely his stepmom says the boy was capable of the murders. Really that says a lot.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I don't think one is needed quite yet. There simply aren't enough "facts" and since there will not be more coming out anytime soon...it would dead end quickly, imo.

Ok,Thankyou.I just wanted to say thankyou for answering me on the Caylee Anthony thread and helping me with trying to find out more on her.My 16 year old son has me hooked on her case now.LOL.There is not much known here so maybe I can find out on her.I usually don't post on other cases.Just missing persons and Unidentified.Any way,thankyou very much for helping me.

 

[Salem]

Respectfully snipped ~

I have realized that this boy had to know he was very important because both biological parents were vying to keep him and even Tiffany seems to have wanted a relationship with him.

If he is guilty and it was because of the spankings that he got from either Tffany or Vincent, then I just don't know how Tim Romans death comes into play any other way except the boy eliminated any witness to the crime that day. I think the Romans' murder is much more problematic for the boy, than the father's.
imoo

Morning Ocean - I have to respectfully disagree that a child will feel important when he/she is the center of a custody battle. If the child is aware of what is going on, generally the child would feel like the cause of the problem - not that they are special. Few children get through this process with a healthly sense of who they are unless they have parents that can work together, even though they are going to court, to explain what is going on to the child. It can be done, but it takes both parents, working togther, to ensure that it happens and to protect the child's well being.

As far as the TR shooting goes, I'm with your thinking on that, except I don't understand why the boy did not just run out the back door? TR would never have seen him, so there would have been no reason to shoot him. I find this one of the most puzzling aspects of this case.

Salem

 

[Shock]

I read somewhere that the back door was always locked, perhaps with a keyed deadbolt (please don't ask me to find the link, as I am terrible at finding links). Maybe even if the boy had access to the key he'd been told not to use the back door. He seems to have been obedient to his dad. He must have been because he used his 'own' gun probably after being told never to touch any of the other guns in the house. Having been hunting with both victims he was aware that there were more powerful and faster shooting weapons available, like the Mossberg .22 auto (an owners manual is seen in one of the photos) but he chose (allegedlly), to use the one his dad gave him. He most likely could have used one of his dad's pistols.
The argument can be made, of course that a large rifle would be too much for him to handle, and that is true, but a pistol may not have been. And certainly not the Mossberg.

 

[Salem]

Wow. Guess I gotta put down Guns and Ammo and pick up a shrink magazine. I'm more interested in the physical aspect of this case (the boy would have to be a super human single shot rifleman with ice water in his veins to have done this), but it looks like the psychologist may well have the final say no matter what happened.
Thanks for broadening a hillbilly's perspective.

I don't think you should give up on the actual physical possibilities of what the child is accused of doing here. I agree with you that there are some definite logistical questions that need to be answered.

The end result of this case will rest on BOTH the physical possibility and the psych analyses.

Salem

 

[mysteriew]

Respectfully snipped ~

Morning Ocean - I have to respectfully disagree that a child will feel important when he/she is the center of a custody battle. If the child is aware of what is going on, generally the child would feel like the cause of the problem - not that they are special. Few children get through this process with a healthly sense of who they are unless they have parents that can work together, even though they are going to court, to explain what is going on to the child. It can be done, but it takes both parents, working togther, to ensure that it happens and to protect the child's well being.

As far as the TR shooting goes, I'm with your thinking on that, except I don't understand why the boy did not just run out the back door? TR would never have seen him, so there would have been no reason to shoot him. I find this one of the most puzzling aspects of this case.

Salem

Good point. I also find it puzzling that if the two arrived together, why didn't Romans mention to his wife about hearing gunshots? He mentioned that the boy was calling him, but not the gunshots? If the two didn't arrive together, then why didn't the boy give him the story about coming home and finding his father instead of killing him and then running to the neighbors?

 

[Shock]

You know, the only hurdle in this thing, or at least the highest right now, is Tonya Romans saying the heard the boy over the phone. She says in her witness statement that her husband even used the boy's name (eliminating the chance that it was someone else she heard).
This hurdle just can't be jumped. It doesn't mean he was alone, or even pulled the trigger (10 times) but it sure means, if the statement is true, that he was there during both killings.

 

[Shock]

They did arrive together. Remember, she asked her husband "where's Vinnie?". He replied, "He's walking into the house right now."

 

[colette]

Good point. I also find it puzzling that if the two arrived together, why didn't Romans mention to his wife about hearing gunshots? He mentioned that the boy was calling him, but not the gunshots? If the two didn't arrive together, then why didn't the boy give him the story about coming home and finding his father instead of killing him and then running to the neighbors?

The father was killed in the landing of the stairs. The landing twisted around in a 180, the small area most likely muffled the sound of a gun that isn't that loud to begin with.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Another case with a connection between a young multiple murderer and hunting:

http://arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=fa374e86-a0ca-4a16-9720-e2a78ec3add8

He wrote in a diary that after school he liked to take his shotgun, head into the woods, and shoot squirrels while pretending they were the teachers who gave him in-school suspension.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

To be sure from many statements made early in this case, this child showed no signs of a disorder. Neither at school or home. There is absolutely nothing out there to place him in the history comparisons of Dahmer or Bundy. To do so, imvho, is a huge injustice to this child and his family. Yes, there have been very, very few cases at this age of such violence, but I think that's the point. It is not common at all.

As far as what the grandparents have stated, I think it is important to remember when it was said and the emotional state it which it was said. *And*, from what little bit that was released via media. Sorry, but I would rather err on being openminded when there is so little info than rush to total judgment concerning a child.

FWIW, I would take in this child. To be sure, he would be in very intensive therapy (regardless the why's, the if''s, or the maybe's) for *his* being, but I would. I am not so naive concerning health/disorder issues that I would ever put myself or family in a dangerous place, but I would do it in a heartbeat with the blessings and support of the professionals out there.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The father was killed in the landing of the stairs. The landing twisted around in a 180, the small area most likely muffled the sound of a gun that isn't that loud to begin with.

Romans was standing just outside the house and never heard shots, but some neighbors stated they heard "pops" when he was being shot. Makes absolutely no sense given how far he was standing away from home.