AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Shock]

Tomorrow may be full of news. Perhaps the outgoing Apache County attorney will admit that he's in over his head and dismiss charges against this child.
What else can they do?

 

[colette]

I think the fact that the mother was living in a home without plumbing at the time had a major impact in custody, plus the fact she didn't see him for about 2 years at one point.
I think the stepmom not visiting the boy isn't that hard to figure out. She has to wonder.."who did I know?" and "was I next?" How can you trust someone such as this boy? Don't be surprised if he kills again later in life.

 

[fran]

As a family law attorney, I can tell you that this is not necessarily true. All it takes in many cases to get custody, whether you are the father, or not, is more money than the other parent.

gitana1:

Thank you so much for your insight. It is sincerely appreciated.


fran

 

[Saffron]

I think the fact that the mother was living in a home without plumbing at the time had a major impact in custody, plus the fact she didn't see him for about 2 years at one point.
I think the stepmom not visiting the boy isn't that hard to figure out. She has to wonder.."who did I know?" and "was I next?" How can you trust someone such as this boy? Don't be surprised if he kills again later in life.

And her sympathies and grief are likely for her late husband, not the child who murdered him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I guess it was ok for the father to have a renter who had problems with drugs living in the household with his eight year old son? Which is worse drugs or cigarette smoke? BTW when a mother loses custody, many times it's a case of economics especially if she hasn't any skills or money to provide a home. Could she even afford an attorney? She married Romero very young. Right now she is certainly stepping up to the plate in a very heartbreaking situation. She said in her interview that her son loved his father and did not cast aspersions on her ex. We need to hear the whole story.

How do we even know VR even knew Tim had done drugs in the past? That happened in TRs own hometown which is 170 miles away from where VR lived.

Well it seemed she had ample money if she could travel once a month on a jet to go back and forth from Mississippi to Arizona and back.

And you think she would have just left her son there if VR was doing drugs or Tim Romans was? You are right, she did not demean this man. She said her son and his father did everything together.

But for a year and a half after she moved far away from him she did not see him but 2 weeks out of that time.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Drug deals and money. What's up with the five 100 dollar bills in the crime scene photos?

Where are you getting your information that this case was remotely connected to drug deals? For all we know the money found could have been being put back weekly when they got paid in order to have for Christmas.

Do you have a link to that news. I haven't read it or heard it anywhere in the media or on the Apache County Website.

 

[mostlylurking]

Who is for the Kid?

If you are asking did the boy do this, I am really hoping not.

If he did, I am really hoping that there is a great big therapy plan so that he can still have a life -- and if he did, sadly, I hope that we are able to find a motivation linked to serious neglect and/or abuse (I would never wish that on a child) or that he was a witness to someone else's deeds and has internalized them as his own.

 

[Trino]

As a family law attorney, I can tell you that this is not necessarily true. All it takes in many cases to get custody, whether you are the father, or not, is more money than the other parent. In my experience, blowing smoke in a child's ear (an Asian remedy) and smoking around a child with lung problems is not enough to deny custody. It would be quite easy to issue an order that there be no smoking around the child. My feeling is that a huge reason they did not give mom custody was the "status quo". Mom apparently did not see the child as much as dad and the Court wanted to keep things the same as before the case. I do not know why mom did not see her child. It could be because she lived elsewhere and could not afford to travel. I have seen a few very loving parents who lose out on seeing their children as much as they would like due to financial issues. I don't know the background. Perhaps she moved because she had financial support where she went and thought the court would allow the child to go with her. That did not happen.

In California, the current law on "move away" cases states that if a custodial parent decides to move out of state and it is not found to be in the child's best interest to go, the other parent gets primary custody, even if the custodial parent then decides NOT to move. Too late, you take the chance. The Court has to rule based on the understanding that the custodial parent is moving, no matter what the court rules as to where the child will live. So if that parent changes his or her mind when the court rules against a move, it's too late. Kid goes to the other parent. This could have happened to the mom here.

Bottom line though, if dad had better attorneys and more money to fight fror custody, he could win. The system rewards those who have the money to litigate, unfortunately.
Off topic, as far as the loyalties this child may or may not have to his step-mother, the fact that he referred to her as "mom" does nothing for me. Again, in my experience litigating in this horrible field of law, I have seen many cases where children are forced, coerced, or, if they are small enough, persuaded to call a step-parent "mom" or "dad', whether they like it or not, or understand it or not. Clearly, when you look at the interactions between the kid and the two mother figures in his life since arrest, the biological mother is there for him and it appears the step-mom has abandoned him. I don't believe she has visited him since his arrest. Does not seem unreasonable given the circumstances, I know, but the fact is, if step-mom viewed this child as her little boy, I think she would be there. Ask yourselves, if you believed your 8 year old son killed your husband, his father, in cold blood, your 8 year old, would you say, "See ya!" And cut him from your life forever?

Your statement that Mom did not see the child as much as dad says volumes. During the divorce proceedings, I believe the mom lived in the same area as the father.

The father was a construction worker all his life. I do not believe this would fall under "having money."

Each state is different. I was divorced in OH, moved to another state - no problem.

Although the step-mother had been in the father's life for two years, she had been married to the father only since Sep 2008. I think I would react the same as she reacted - not enough time to bond with the child. Also, she knows that ErynTB shared legal custody, although not physical custody, so perhaps she does not wish to interfere. I do recall the news media stating the boy cried and hugged the step-mother after the LE interview.

IMO the step-mother will be the big loser when the Roman family sues, which it seems reasonable they will do.

 

[lizzybeth]

Where are you getting your information that this case was remotely connected to drug deals? For all we know the money found could have been being put back weekly when they got paid in order to have for Christmas.

Do you have a link to that news. I haven't read it or heard it anywhere in the media or on the Apache County Website.

Has anything been said as to why the took a picture of the money? I wondered when I saw it why they did. Could it be to show that the motive wasn't robbery?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Has anything been said as to why the took a picture of the money? I wondered when I saw it why they did. Could it be to show that the motive wasn't robbery?

They are bound to take pictures of any money found inside the home. I suppose it gives them a record that the officers notated it was there so later on the homeowner can't say it is missing.

It may have also been that too lizzy. Robbery sure wasn't the motive here. Money left behind and a lot of firearms left behind too. That is usually two things that get stolen first in a robbery.

imoo

 

[lizzybeth]

Thanks OBE, that makes sense.

 

[minachica]

I posted this link before on #1, but perhaps it should be posted again. This case involved 7 and 8 yr olds who murdered. I don't know what happened to them.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9808/11/boys.charged.01/index.html

Charges were dropped and a 36 year old man was convicted with DNA evidence. Chicago paid out millions to the boys.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0508010193aug01,0,4679399.story

 

[secretsmk]

I posted this link before on #1, but perhaps it should be posted again. This case involved 7 and 8 yr olds who murdered. I don't know what happened to them.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9808/11/boys.charged.01/index.html

At the end, the confession was false, the boys were led to it. They were freed. Semen was found inside the girl. Of course, it wasn't the boy's. They found the real killer and he was convicted.

 

[Trino]

Thanks. I deleted my post. Please delete your reference.

 

[mysteriew]

How do we even know VR even knew Tim had done drugs in the past? That happened in TRs own hometown which is 170 miles away from where VR lived.

Well it seemed she had ample money if she could travel once a month on a jet to go back and forth from Mississippi to Arizona and back.

And you think she would have just left her son there if VR was doing drugs or Tim Romans was? You are right, she did not demean this man. She said her son and his father did everything together.

But for a year and a half after she moved far away from him she did not see him but 2 weeks out of that time.

imoo

Very often when parents get divorced the female may not have money. We don't know if she had a job at the time of the divorce, if she did have a job it may have been a low paying job. And her circumstances may have changed since the divorce. She may have gotten a job or a better job, gotten married or had other changes in her circumstances.

Mom didn't live in the household. She most likely didn't know the renters history. Even the boy may not have known, and if he did know most likely he was warned not to tell his mother.

 

[Trino]

I'd be interested in knowing more about ETB. Job? The last name suggests she has remarried. Does she have other children? Relatives in the area? Where did she and the boy stay during his Thanksgiving reprieve?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Where are you getting your information that this case was remotely connected to drug deals? For all we know the money found could have been being put back weekly when they got paid in order to have for Christmas.

Do you have a link to that news. I haven't read it or heard it anywhere in the media or on the Apache County Website.

From AZCentral news report dated 11/27/2008:

"Police in San Carlos, where Romans grew up, told St. Johns investigators that he had a prior drug arrest and was suspected of minor drug dealings".

I tried to get the link to work to news article, but it wouldn't. Probably my error. No shocker there!

 

[chicagofa13]

This isn't directed at any poster in particular, it's just my opinion based on many posts concerning the gifts sent to this boy.

No, killing two people does not deserve a reward, but perhaps those sending gifts are thinking like me, this boy is emotionally sick, has a serious mental/personality disorder. When someone has a serious personality disorder they are just as sick as someone with cancer. Mental illness is a real illness. I've been trying to think of a similar premeditated crime carried out by an 8 year old and I'm not coming up with one. So either this boy was very abused (and I'm not really buying into his 1000 licks story, sounds like a large round number and 8 year old would pick) or he is seriously ill.

Respectfully my opinion.

I have no doubt he is "sick" in some capacity. I have plenty of sympathy for people with emotional/psychological disorders, but some people do NOT belong in society ever, for any reason. Once they have been PROVEN (which he may be) psychotic they can't be let loose on the rest of us.

IMO people sending him gifts is similar to writing letters to killers in prison to be pen pals. Creepy and bizarre. I am sure he isn't actually receiving these gifts (or I hope not) and they will handle it. If he's truly a sociopath or psychopath (or the term dujour) this will only enforce bad behavior to be rewarded for his acts.

In my job I see lots of people, lots of kids and lots of bad behavior. I've seen 8 year olds (and younger!) lie their teeth off, and get away with it with their parents, and smile back at you with delight. 99.99999 percent of these kids will just be brats, not murderers. I'm no psychologist, but some of this is common sense. Killers shouldn't stay in society.

 

[s_finch]

I have no doubt he is "sick" in some capacity. I have plenty of sympathy for people with emotional/psychological disorders, but some people do NOT belong in society ever, for any reason. Once they have been PROVEN (which he may be) psychotic they can't be let loose on the rest of us.

IMO people sending him gifts is similar to writing letters to killers in prison to be pen pals. Creepy and bizarre. I am sure he isn't actually receiving these gifts (or I hope not) and they will handle it. If he's truly a sociopath or psychopath (or the term dujour) this will only enforce bad behavior to be rewarded for his acts.

In my job I see lots of people, lots of kids and lots of bad behavior. I've seen 8 year olds (and younger!) lie their teeth off, and get away with it with their parents, and smile back at you with delight. 99.99999 percent of these kids will just be brats, not murderers. I'm no psychologist, but some of this is common sense. Killers shouldn't stay in society.

I agree that killers shouldn't stay in society. I stated previously that it may be that this boy is of such a state that he should never be returned into society, then again maybe there was some kind of mitigating circumstance.... brain washing by bio mom? severe abuse??

 

[chicagofa13]

I agree that killers shouldn't stay in society. I stated previously that it may be that this boy is of such a state that he should never be returned into society, then again maybe there was some kind of mitigating circumstance.... brain washing by bio mom? severe abuse??

I also said somewhere in this thread the bio mom instigating this would give me SOME sympathy for this kid. Until then...