AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[mostlylurking]

Found what I was remembering:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/26/20081126stjohns-boy1126-ON.html

snip ~

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'
"She then started to tell me something and then stopped herself. She took several deep breaths, wanting to tell me more but stopped herself."
Melnick says the grandmother then said the boy's stepmother suspected the child that night.....

I think I deserve an apology on the "Total BS" comment now.

 

[Shelby77]

mostlylurking, I know I read that at some point also, about the stepmother...I don't have the link to back it up either, but I do remember reading that very specifically...as I have also been following this case since the beginning....Idk that it was true, but it was in either a media report or one of the public records online...

 

[Shelby77]

Oops, there ya go, found it yourself

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Melnick says the grandmother then said the boy's stepmother suspected the child that night.....

That's interesting.

 

[MeoW333]

Reading through the court transcripts; in evidence; a photograph; is shown a cigarette lighter next to something that looks like "a box of cigarettes, a match -lighter, and nasal spray" also referred to prior in the transcripts as "a cigarette lighter and maybe an inhaler"
Mr. Romans being the smoker.
(none of this was seized as evidence they just took pictures of it).

I am wondering if Mr. Romans smoked inside the residence. The 3 bedrooms were all upstairs. I'm sure he didn't sleep on the couch.
The boy has underdeveloped lungs, as we know...

Kept reading.. they had a "smoking area" inside the house.

Also that screen door shot picture; that's from outside to inside. So the boy or whomever would have been shooting outside the house towards the inside of the house; the bullet entering the screen at a down angle. How many inches in height can we estimate the bullet hole is in the screen door from the ground? How tall is the boy?

 

[Salem]

According to PD documents, On Wed. 5 Nov 08 in St. Johns;

4:45pm A neighbor arrived home and did not hear or see anything unusual. Mr.___ lives across the street in a westerly direction from the Romero home.
4:52pm Mrs. Romans begins phone conversation with her husband.
5:00pm? 911 call is received. The caller gives his address and tells the operator that there is a body on the front porch of his neighbors house and that the front door is open. He also says, "the little boy who lives there is here with me."
5:06pm Sgt. Rodriguez arrives at scene. Mr. Davis (911 caller?), his teenage son, and the 8 year old accused were there.

This timeline allows the kid 5 minutes to shoot Mr. Roman's six times, reload his rifle (the gun was found with an unspent cartridge in the chamber), lay the weapon on the dog cage, run to a neighbors house to report that he'd found the bodies, wait while his story was confirmed. Then call 911. If Tonya and Timothy Romans spoke only for 2 minutes then add a minute to the total time.

Seems quite a feat for an 8 year old to me.

Wow! That's tight! I thought the boy hung out for a couple of minutes (seconds) before telling the teen that his dad was dead? So the neighbor went and looked and then went back to his house to call 911 - am I reading that right?

We have 8 minutes total from time phone call starts.

Neighbor to and back from scene would be minimum of 1 minute.
Do we know the phone call lasted 2 minutes?
Assuming 15 secs to reload each time with a bullet in the chamber for the first shot means 5 shoots X 15 seconds = 1 min. 15 secs.
Add 15 seconds for the final reload that was not spent
Add 30 seconds to walk up to the body for the close shoots
Estimate 30 seconds to lay the gun down
I'm thinking 30 seconds to get to neighbor's house?

On this very rough estimate, it took 6 minutes. Doesn't leave the kid much time to think or to talk to the teen, who then went and told his dad. Really, really tight timeline.

Salem

 

[colette]

Sure I Do apologize for calling it BS. Sorry... But it's really not the stepmom saying the "kid did it". It was the grandmother saying the stepmother suspects.. it's not the stepmom pointing the finger as you say. Thank you for finding the link.

As far as I can see in all the articles the stepmother has not made a statement period

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Found what I was remembering:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/26/20081126stjohns-boy1126-ON.html

snip ~

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'
"She then started to tell me something and then stopped herself. She took several deep breaths, wanting to tell me more but stopped herself."
Melnick says the grandmother then said the boy's stepmother suspected the child that night.....

I think I deserve an apology on the "Total BS" comment now.

I am/have been back into my history as I know it was a statement made. I know what I found and read myself. When I find it, I will post it. If you were able to find something and I know I sure did, I cannot imagine others cannot themselves.

 

[mostlylurking]

And from that same article:

The case file contains other revelations, including statements from friends that Romans and the boy's father had been involved in disputes with co-workers at the nearby power plant, and with men at a local bar.
Records indicate the 8-year-old had no history of psychiatric care and was not on any medications. The search warrant affidavit contains the first public disclosure that the child had been in contact with Child Protective Services workers. CPS cases are confidential, and an Apache County Superior Court judge has imposed a gag order, so the timing and context of his statement remains unclear.

.....

One day after the killings, the boy gave police a statement which they have characterized as a confession. In it, he provided various explanations for what had happened, finally declaring that he had shot his father and the other man twice each to stop their suffering after they had been wounded by an unknown person.
At the end of the interview, the boy curled into a fetal position and hid his face. When asked what he was thinking, he told investigators, "Going to juvie."

---------
So, disputes with workers and at a bar, CPS contact that is gagged on disclosure and NOT an emotionless child. One that ended up in the fetal postion after being interrogated ALONE as (oops meant at) the offering of the stepmother.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote
Wow! That's tight! I thought the boy hung out for a couple of minutes (seconds) before telling the teen that his dad was dead? So the neighbor went and looked and then went back to his house to call 911 - am I reading that right?


The little boy said he cried for a half hour didn't he after he said he shot his dad?

 

[Shock]

Witness statement of Tonya Romans.

While talking on the phone with my husband at 4:52pm I asked my husband, Timothy Romans, where he was at.
Tim: I'm at Vinnie's house.
Tonya: Where's Vinnie?
Tim: He's walking into the house right now.
Tonya; Are you alright?
Tim: No, we're pissed right now because we have to work this weekend.
While we were talking I heard a little boy say, "Tim, you have to come in right now." I asked Tim, "who is that". Tim said that's _____. I asked him, "what did he say?" I did hear the little boy say, "You have to come into the house right now." Then the boy said, "No, right now. You've got to come in right now." Tim then said, "Babe, I'll have to go. Somethings wrong. I'll call you back in a little bit."
And that was the last time I talked to my husband.

 

[mostlylurking]

Sure I Do apologize for calling it BS. Sorry... But it's really not the stepmom saying the "kid did it". It was the grandmother saying the stepmother suspects.. it's not the stepmom pointing the finger as you say. Thank you for finding the link.

As far as I can see in all the articles the stepmother has not made a statement period

Apology accepted. I didn't say that I had read the step mom saying it, but that I recalled something about the grandmother saying she suspected him. That is what I found. I will be anxious to see if the any of the other posters are able to find a direct quote from her.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote
Tim then said, "Babe, I'll have to go. Somethings wrong. I'll call you back in a little bit."

WOW.That's a nice way to talk to her if they are getting a divorce.They were getting a divorce?It must be nice.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I'm not clear on where Tim's wife was living, I know he was renting a room there and his wife was living somewhere else, is it possible that she was in a different time zone where her time would be 1 hour later?

VB

 

[Shock]

Wow! That's tight! I thought the boy hung out for a couple of minutes (seconds) before telling the teen that his dad was dead? So the neighbor went and looked and then went back to his house to call 911 - am I reading that right?

We have 8 minutes total from time phone call starts.

Neighbor to and back from scene would be minimum of 1 minute.
Do we know the phone call lasted 2 minutes?
Assuming 15 secs to reload each time with a bullet in the chamber for the first shot means 5 shoots X 15 seconds = 1 min. 15 secs.
Add 15 seconds for the final reload that was not spent
Add 30 seconds to walk up to the body for the close shoots
Estimate 30 seconds to lay the gun down
I'm thinking 30 seconds to get to neighbor's house?

On this very rough estimate, it took 6 minutes. Doesn't leave the kid much time to think or to talk to the teen, who then went and told his dad. Really, really tight timeline.

Salem

You forgot the time it took for someone to check that ther was, indeed, a body there before calling 911. Not many folks would take the word of an 8 year old without confirming what he claimed before callin the police.

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm not clear on where Tim's wife was living, I know he was renting a room there and his wife was living somewhere else, is it possible that she was in a different time zone where her time would be 1 hour later?

VB

An AZ town about 120 miles away. Name escapes me. Same time zone, though.

 

[Shock]

I'm not clear on where Tim's wife was living, I know he was renting a room there and his wife was living somewhere else, is it possible that she was in a different time zone where her time would be 1 hour later?

VB

She lives in San Carlos, AZ. Same time zone as St. Johns.

 

[colette]

Quote
Tim then said, "Babe, I'll have to go. Somethings wrong. I'll call you back in a little bit."

WOW.That's a nice way to talk to her if they are getting a divorce.They were getting a divorce?It must be nice.

lol, maybe they were getting back together. Lot's of people file for divorce but don't go though with it. There are even people who divorce and remarry the same person .

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Well,I think I am going to sleep now.I hope I sleep.I'm exhausted.The kids get up early.I don't know why.Have a nice night everyone.:hug:

 

[Shock]

Something the witness statement doesn't say is who called who. From what I've read they don't say. Mr. Romans may have paused for a smoke and called his wife. Or she may have called him. Either way the lingering outside cost Mr. Romans his life. Had he followed Mr. Romero inside the house at least one, and probably both, would have survived. The boy could not have shot both men with a single shot rifle.
Life is odd, ain't it?
Another odd thing is why the boy was so impatient. Why didn't he just wait inside for Mr. Romans to finish his call then make a single head shot when he came through the door? Wipe the gun clean, collect the empty casings from the floor, then run next door crying about what he'd found. No shots would have been heard (supposedly) and the phone call wouldn't have mattered. The interrogation would have been much different because of lack of evidence. LE would still be looking for the killer. The boy would be home free.
This is assuming, of course, that the boy did it. Or did it alone.