AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[Ms Suzanne]

Another thing I am confused about is the bullet hole in the screen door. Obviously made from the outside. This means the kid, who had allegedly just shot his dad inside, had to get outside without TR seeing him with the gun? Or did he shoot his dad through the screen door? If so, why didn't TR see him? If the kid was hiding in the bushes how did he shoot his dad inside? How did he get outside with TR seeing him? Why would he go outside and hide, instead of just leaving the scene?

Salem

Good questions.I thought the same thing.I am thinking if he shot his dad and then shot Tim Romans why did he do it outside or at the door.Why didn't he just wait for Mr Romans to get inside the house.It would have caused alot less attention.But apparantly no one saw or heard anything anyway.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with this. It was almost 20 years ago, if that is the correct record entry, BUT bar room fights and having your truck shot at does raise a red flag in my opinion. Stepping out on his wife doesn't (if he did) doesn't help either.

I'm confused about one thing: If this was TR's truck, why was he getting out on the passenger side? Wouldn't he have been driving and VR in the passenger seat?

The left elbow shot is really throwing me off here.

Salem

It is not uncommon that when two people ride to work together that the non owner will drive the vehicle. I suspect that Tim may have first thing called his girlfriend Candy or talked to Tanya and just let Vincent drive the truck home. I know when my husband goes hunting or fishing with his buddies for some reason they always want him to drive even if they go in their vehicle.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

No matter what happened or what he was doing whether he was wrong or right drinking.I do pray Tim Romans and the boys father are in heaven now.God knew thier hearts.We just don't know the whole story yet of what happened.It's just real sad.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Another thing I am confused about is the bullet hole in the screen door. Obviously made from the outside. This means the kid, who had allegedly just shot his dad inside, had to get outside without TR seeing him with the gun? Or did he shoot his dad through the screen door? If so, why didn't TR see him? If the kid was hiding in the bushes how did he shoot his dad inside? How did he get outside with TR seeing him? Why would he go outside and hide, instead of just leaving the scene?

Salem

Imo he had already shot his dad when his dad first walked in and climbed the stairs. I think the bullet hole at the bottom of the screen door was either made by a bullet that passed through Tim's head or a shot where he narrowly missed his head when it was resting up next to the screen door. I looked at the photo and if the door was back against Tim's head when found the bullet hole would be right in that area.

He is certainly small enough to hide behind the ivy bush that was quite bushy where Tim would not see him. Tim may have realized the shots were coming from the front of the home close to the door and porch area but could not pinpoint it until it was too late.

Tim was probably preoccupied on the phone and didn't look over to see if he could see the boy. He just heard him calling him and went to his aide. At first he may have called from behind the screen and then quickly stepped the few feet behind the bush.

Imo, he couldn't just leave the scene. The entire neighborhood is so open and I am sure his friend knew he got off of the bus at an earlier time and headed in the direction toward home then before his dad and Tim came in from work. I think he killed Tim because he knew that any minute Tim would be coming into that home and would see VR laying there murdered. From what has been said they kept the back door locked so he couldn't come out the front door and let Tim see him if he just left and then have Tim walk in the home and find Vince.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Quote: The left elbow shot is really throwing me off here.

Salem[/QUOTE]

I meant to ask you this Salem and forgot. Why is the elbow shot throwing you off?

Vincent Romero was shot in the left elbow, back and head and found laying face down on the stairs. The elbow and back shots were done with the shooter behind him. The head shots most likely done when he was already down and incapacitated.

imoo

 

[fran]

Tim Romans still went out to bars & wild parties every night, and also proposed to a woman, Candy while he was married.
(if the origin of the bullet hole in the truck is from a party Tim went to)

Well, I wonder just how old this bullet hole was in his truck?
What provoked someone to shoot at his truck?
Was the bullet meant for Tim? or just his truck?
Could the person who shot at the truck, have gone to the home to finish the job?

This bullet hole should NOT be discounted as NOT relevant UNTIL it's proven it is NOT.

JMHO
fran

 

[MeoW333]

Well, I wonder just how old this bullet hole was in his truck?
What provoked someone to shoot at his truck?
Was the bullet meant for Tim? or just his truck?
Could the person who shot at the truck, have gone to the home to finish the job?

This bullet hole should NOT be discounted as NOT relevant UNTIL it's proven it is NOT.

JMHO
fran

Someone could have fired it as a warning shot if they were in an argument..

 

[Fairy1]

A few random thoughts:

If the boy had an issue with Tiffany, he could have killed her while his dad and Tim were out - which seems to have been the norm. I think he was very close to his dad and if he felt threatened by the new wife, his 8-year-old mind would have deduced the best way to get things back to "normal" would be to get rid of Tiffany - not dad.

It seems there was definitely some "bad blood" between Vincent, Tim and some of their co-workers. It does seem possible that the murders were a result of that and that the boy walked in and was threatened. I would question why they didn't kill him as well, but maybe it's considered over the line to kill a child.

I'm bothered by the fact that an 8-year-old child was allowed to be left alone for any period of time after school. Not sure how long he was alone before a parent came home on a daily basis, but I would never have left my children alone at that age - for any length of time.

The more information that comes out, the more possibilities there seem to be as to who killed these men and why. I'm not saying this little boy didn't do it, but I'm not convinced. Many adults have confessed to murders they didn't commit - why not an 8-year-old child?

 

[gitana1]

Yes, that's Bruce Perry's work, with the kids from Waco. An aside but, have you ever heard about his earlier life? His wife was killed in the early 70s, at Stanford Univ, I think. Ritualistic murder in a church. Never solved. Weird. He does some amazing ground-breaking work with kids, that's for sure.

Yup, that's the guy! But, wow. I never heard about his earlier life. Poor man!

 

[MeoW333]

It doesn't look good for him because maybe he should not have been at parties and bars to begins with.What provoked this person to shoot at him if that was what happened.They apparantly had bar room fights a few times.IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO.You know what I mean.

Very well put!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

A few random thoughts:

If the boy had an issue with Tiffany, he could have killed her while his dad and Tim were out - which seems to have been the norm. I think he was very close to his dad and if he felt threatened by the new wife, his 8-year-old mind would have deduced the best way to get things back to "normal" would be to get rid of Tiffany - not dad.

It seems there was definitely some "bad blood" between Vincent, Tim and some of their co-workers. It does seem possible that the murders were a result of that and that the boy walked in and was threatened. I would question why they didn't kill him as well, but maybe it's considered over the line to kill a child.

I'm bothered by the fact that an 8-year-old child was allowed to be left alone for any period of time after school. Not sure how long he was alone before a parent came home on a daily basis, but I would never have left my children alone at that age - for any length of time.

The more information that comes out, the more possibilities there seem to be as to who killed these men and why. I'm not saying this little boy didn't do it, but I'm not convinced. Many adults have confessed to murders they didn't commit - why not an 8-year-old child?

I am not sure how long he was left alone. By 4:47 pm Vincent was already in route home from work that day. The boy rode the school bus so may not have gotten off until around 4 pm. He would be alone for less than an hour. Sounds like it is the typical situation in many other children's lives where their parents work and gets home an hour or so later from work.

Someone posted a link that states in AZ a child of this age can be left alone for no longer than a three hour period.

I think this boy loved Tiffany. She was a consistent motherly figure in his life for over two years. A consistency the boy never had. He seemed to show emotion only when he saw her, when he ran up to her, upon seeing her arrive and hugged her and cried at the scene.

imoo

 

[Trino]

I am not sure how long he was left alone. By 4:47 pm Vincent was already in route home from work that day. The boy rode the school bus so may not have gotten off until around 4 pm. He would be alone for less than an hour. Sounds like it is the typical situation in many other children's lives where their parents work and gets home an hour or so later from work.

Someone posted a link that states in AZ a child of this age can be left alone for no longer than a three hour period. imoo

Although I don't have a reference, I seem to recall the boy was alone only for about an hour an a half. Also, the boy will turn 9 soon, if this has bearing on anyone's thoughts.

IMO several posters, many posters want to believe the boy is innocent and have taken this case too far.

The prosecuting and defense attorneys are not permitted to hide anything in court. Neither attorney disputes that the boy did this crime. The boy is not in protective custody. He is being evaluated, the next time in Phoenix by a state expert. The article below explains why the prosecutor requested one charge be dropped. It's NOT because there isn't evidence or because it's believed the boy is innocent. It's so charges can be filed later when he's an adult.

http://www.newstimes.com/national/ci_11169981

If this boy is found incompetent to stand trial, in 245 days he will be out. NO charges and NO mental help. For anyone who wants to help the boy, the best scenario would be for him to be transferred to juvenile detention. If this boy is to be helped, he's better off there where he will be given services. How can anyone feel the boy will be better off by being let out of detention and ignored?

If this boy is "let out," then somehow goes with his mother, has anyone thought ahead to how he will be hounded by the press, by neighbors? How could he go back to any school? Would he have any friend? His picture has been online (wedding); it would be a matter of time before he was identified.

 

[Chargergal]

Although I don't have a reference, I seem to recall the boy was alone only for about an hour an a half. Also, the boy will turn 9 soon, if this has bearing on anyone's thoughts.

IMO several posters, many posters want to believe the boy is innocent and have taken this case too far.

The prosecuting and defense attorneys are not permitted to hide anything in court. Neither attorney disputes that the boy did this crime. The boy is not in protective custody. He is being evaluated, the next time in Phoenix by a state expert. The article below explains why the prosecutor requested one charge be dropped. It's NOT because there isn't evidence or because it's believed the boy is innocent. It's so charges can be filed later when he's an adult.
http://www.newstimes.com/national/ci_11169981

If this boy is found incompetent to stand trial, in 245 days he will be out. NO charges and NO mental help. For anyone who wants to help the boy, the best scenario would be for him to be transferred to juvenile detention. If this boy is to be helped, he's better off there where he will be given services. How can anyone feel the boy will be better off by being let out of detention and ignored?

If this boy is "let out," then somehow goes with his mother, has anyone thought ahead to how he will be hounded by the press, by neighbors? How could he go back to any school? Would he have any friend? His picture has been online (wedding); it would be a matter of time before he was identified.

In the court documents the DA specifically mentioned that the reason he wants to drop the first charge is NOT so he can refile later. It was not to gain "tactial advantage". IMO I don't think they feel they can get a conviction because of the "sympathy" factor due to the alledged abuse.

For the record, I do feel this boy is involved...I just don't think he is the "mastermind"...and in no way do I feel the detention is the best place for an 8 (almost 9) y/o boy to get the help he needs.

I also agree that whatever is the outcome in this tragic case, the rode he must travel will be will be difficult. Fortunately, children are resillant and hopefully he will be able to ge the love and support from his mother and extended family.

 

[Trino]

and in no way do I feel the detention is the best place for an 8 (almost 9) y/o boy to get the help he needs. I also agree that whatever is the outcome in this tragic case, the rode he must travel will be will be difficult. Fortunately, children are resillant and hopefully he will be able to ge the love and support from his mother and extended family.

Who do you suppose will pay for therapy for this child if not the state? In 245 days, if he walks, the boy will get no support. With this status, which I don't believe the court will allow, the boy will not be able to live a normal life, and I believe the court will take this under consideration. Where could he go that he, as well as his bio mother, would not be identified?

What extended family? Does anyone know where the "extended family" lives and what they're like? We know nothing about Eryn's family and have heard nothing from them. Where is Eryn's mother, father, husband, boyfriend, sister, brother, friends? Why haven't they been there to support her? Have we even heard from Eryn's neighbors? What job does she have? Will she stay in AZ, since she lives in Mississippi (near Vicksburg)?

And, the stepmother? Seems there's no chance there. The St. Johns Grandmother? The aunt? They have visiting privileges, but I have not heard they have used them.

 

[Chargergal]

There are just so many questions left to be answered. Since there is a gag order, unless someone is part of the family or involved we just don't know. Maybe she does have an extended family and they are staying under the rader. Maybe St.Johns grandparents have come to visit and we just don't. I refuse to believe that this boys entire family has disowned him. I doubt mom is the only one in his corner - even if he mastermind the whole thing. And, in my opinion, I don't think our justice system is the best place to reform an adult...much less a child.
Great questions for discussion.
K

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In the court documents the DA specifically mentioned that the reason he wants to drop the first charge is NOT so he can refile later. It was not to gain "tactical advantage". IMO I don't think they feel they can get a conviction because of the "sympathy" factor due to the alleged abuse.

For the record, I do feel this boy is involved...I just don't think he is the "mastermind"...and in no way do I feel the detention is the best place for an 8 (almost 9) y/o boy to get the help he needs.

I also agree that whatever is the outcome in this tragic case, the rode he must travel will be will be difficult. Fortunately, children are resilient and hopefully he will be able to ge the love and support from his mother and extended family.

He never mentions in his motion to drop Count One that he will not try him as an adult. Only if the defense attorney accepts the plea deal can that happen. If the defense does not plea the DA will proceed to drop Count One and if allowed by the Judge to do so, he can charge him as an adult at a later date to ensure that some semblance of justice is given to the father that lost his life.

Here is what the ADA stated in his follow up motion.

"In this case, the prosecution avows that the dismissal is not intended to obtain an unfair prejudice or tactical advantage over the juvenile. Rather, it is done due to our Juvenile system being poorly equipped to handle a case like this nature involving an 8 year old. It is done to ensure that the juvenile and the two murder victims in this case do not fall through the cracks in the system that might occur if both charges remain in the pending delinquency case."

Even Judge Roca has stated the juvenile system was not set up to handle cases like this that end in double homicide. He is very well aware that no matter how many people this boy may have killed, he can only be given a maximum amount of time. The same amount as if he had only murdered one person.

And the defense attorney's response was lame. The defense and the State are adversaries and both sides try to gain a tactical advantage. Just like Brewer did when he released his 100 pages of the officers' questioned by him.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

Although I don't have a reference, I seem to recall the boy was alone only for about an hour an a half. Also, the boy will turn 9 soon, if this has bearing on anyone's thoughts.

IMO several posters, many posters want to believe the boy is innocent and have taken this case too far.

The prosecuting and defense attorneys are not permitted to hide anything in court. Neither attorney disputes that the boy did this crime. The boy is not in protective custody. He is being evaluated, the next time in Phoenix by a state expert. The article below explains why the prosecutor requested one charge be dropped. It's NOT because there isn't evidence or because it's believed the boy is innocent. It's so charges can be filed later when he's an adult.

http://www.newstimes.com/national/ci_11169981

If this boy is found incompetent to stand trial, in 245 days he will be out. NO charges and NO mental help. For anyone who wants to help the boy, the best scenario would be for him to be transferred to juvenile detention. If this boy is to be helped, he's better off there where he will be given services. How can anyone feel the boy will be better off by being let out of detention and ignored?

If this boy is "let out," then somehow goes with his mother, has anyone thought ahead to how he will be hounded by the press, by neighbors? How could he go back to any school? Would he have any friend? His picture has been online (wedding); it would be a matter of time before he was identified.

They can just change their names and move somewhere different until it all blows over. They do that for people all the time.

 

[MeoW333]

Although I don't have a reference, I seem to recall the boy was alone only for about an hour an a half. Also, the boy will turn 9 soon, if this has bearing on anyone's thoughts.

IMO several posters, many posters want to believe the boy is innocent and have taken this case too far.

The prosecuting and defense attorneys are not permitted to hide anything in court. Neither attorney disputes that the boy did this crime. The boy is not in protective custody. He is being evaluated, the next time in Phoenix by a state expert. The article below explains why the prosecutor requested one charge be dropped. It's NOT because there isn't evidence or because it's believed the boy is innocent. It's so charges can be filed later when he's an adult.

http://www.newstimes.com/national/ci_11169981

If this boy is found incompetent to stand trial, in 245 days he will be out. NO charges and NO mental help. For anyone who wants to help the boy, the best scenario would be for him to be transferred to juvenile detention. If this boy is to be helped, he's better off there where he will be given services. How can anyone feel the boy will be better off by being let out of detention and ignored?

If this boy is "let out," then somehow goes with his mother, has anyone thought ahead to how he will be hounded by the press, by neighbors? How could he go back to any school? Would he have any friend? His picture has been online (wedding); it would be a matter of time before he was identified.

They can just change their names and move somewhere different until it all blows over. They do that for people all the time.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/national_world&id=6545622

AP copyrighted

Spokesperson for the Romans family makes a comment about the case.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

And, in my opinion, I don't think our justice system is the best place to reform an adult...much less a child.
Great questions for discussion.
K

Very true. Just turns the "revolving door" system of prison around and around more..