AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[colette]

sniped

Mrs. Romans made that statement and I believe that will be considered "hearsay". There is absolutely nothing to prove that is a fact.

Mrs Roman can testify that she heard the boy's voice in the back ground, that is not hearsay. Also they will have the phone records and timeline.


Like I said no one is changing anyone's mind.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Don't forget his little "diary"... premeditation there. He may have said.. after 1,000 dad dies.
Mr Roman was an innocent witness, so what he had an affair or drank at a bar, ect.

Anyway No one is changing anyone's mind on this board I can see that, but time will tell. Then in the future when this kid kills again or does some crime just think back, oh I guess he wasn't so innocent.

An 8 year old and his diary. How do you know what this child wrote in his diary and even if he wrote (quoting you and not a real fact), "after 1,000 dad dies", it absolutely does not mean it was literal. Please, I had my children tell me how much they hated. Often. They wrote it in their journals. Multiply that by three kids, I should have been beyond this world years ago. Meaning, take it for what it's worth from a child.

 

[colette]

I'm sorry if you perceive I was trying to change your mind...I thought it was an adult debate...

I'm just making a statement that people are fixed in their opinions on this case. If you leave his age out and just look at facts I think many would have a different opinion. I think the fact that this kid is 8 has clouded the case.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

sniped


Mrs Roman can testify that she heard the boy's voice in the back ground, that is not hearsay. Also they will have the phone records and timeline.


Like I said no one is changing anyone's mind.

They can have the phone records and the timeline. That works. They only have Mrs. Romans statement of what *she* tells them, but there is no proof that it actually did. Hearsay.

 

[colette]

An 8 year old and his diary. How do you know what this child wrote in his diary and even if he wrote (quoting you and not a real fact), "after 1,000 dad dies", it absolutely does not mean it was literal. Please, I had my children tell me how much they hated. Often. They wrote it in their journals. Multiply that by three kids, I should have been beyond this world years ago. Meaning, take it for what it's worth from a child.

The thing is OL, you are alive.

 

[Chargergal]

sniped...



Do you seriously believe that they would pin this on an 8 year old boy just to clear the books???
And if he is so innocent why is his lawyer considering the plea bargain and why does he not want anyone to hear what the boy tells a therapist?

Quote from his attorney
"If they're going to decide to make the offer they made and stick with that, we would have to decide if that's something in our client's best interest, and it's too early to be able to say that," Brewer said.

We don't know if he is or isn't considering a plea deal.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The thing is OL, you are alive.

Right, I am. Very much so. However, it does not mean that anyone of my children at that age would have understood the concept of what they said to me or what they did to me. Children cannot. They do not have the learning experience yet. It is learned through time. An 8 year old simply cannot have that as young adults or adults do. It's simply not possible.

There is much more behind the scenes of this case. I am not trying to have anyone change their mind that seems fixed. All I am trying to do is debate the possibilities other than convicting before the child is found innocent. I just cannot convict a child without a very healthy forensic proof.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Tim Romans still went out to bars & wild parties every night, and also proposed to a woman, Candy while he was married.
(if the origin of the bullet hole in the truck is from a party Tim went to)

This Candy says that Tim asked her to marry him the night before he was murdered. But did he really? Did anyone else hear him ask her? It sounds good in the news and on her MySpace I guess but is it the truth. She can say anything she wants and he isn't here to argue it. She may have been a one night stand for all we know and made a lot more of a relationship then there really was....we don't know. I don't care for cheats and I feel very sad for his wife and daughters if this is all the truth.

 

[Trino]

This Candy says that Tim asked her to marry him the night before he was murdered. But did he really? Did anyone else hear him ask her? It sounds good in the news and on her MySpace I guess but is it the truth. She can say anything she wants and he isn't here to argue it. She may have been a one night stand for all we know and made a lot more of a relationship then there really was....we don't know. I don't care for cheats and I feel very sad for his wife and daughters if this is all the truth.

I agree. IMO Candy has very low self-esteem to publish something like this for the world to see. Has she no sympathy for his family, his daughters?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/[email protected]&navCatId=3

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They can have the phone records and the timeline. That works. They only have Mrs. Romans statement of what *she* tells them, but there is no proof that it actually did. Hearsay.

It is a piece of circumstantial evidence. It carries as much weight as direct evidence.

It is up to the jury to decide if it is truthful. They will assess it and see if any of the other case bolsters what she said. I think they will have plenty that shows she indeed did hear this boy calling Tim to come inside. She knew his voice. They will have the time that called ended and it will coincide with Tim being shot very soon after.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

They offered to dismiss both charges?

 

[SailorMoon]

A few random thoughts:

If the boy had an issue with Tiffany, he could have killed her while his dad and Tim were out - which seems to have been the norm. I think he was very close to his dad and if he felt threatened by the new wife, his 8-year-old mind would have deduced the best way to get things back to "normal" would be to get rid of Tiffany - not dad.

It seems there was definitely some "bad blood" between Vincent, Tim and some of their co-workers. It does seem possible that the murders were a result of that and that the boy walked in and was threatened. I would question why they didn't kill him as well, but maybe it's considered over the line to kill a child.

I'm bothered by the fact that an 8-year-old child was allowed to be left alone for any period of time after school. Not sure how long he was alone before a parent came home on a daily basis, but I would never have left my children alone at that age - for any length of time.

The more information that comes out, the more possibilities there seem to be as to who killed these men and why. I'm not saying this little boy didn't do it, but I'm not convinced. Many adults have confessed to murders they didn't commit - why not an 8-year-old child?

Good points. My question has been this....and forgive me if I've missed it. Didn't I read that the child got off the school bus?? If yes, was that the norm for him to get off with no one home? Because where I live they will not let my 7 yo off the bus unless someone is home. No way Jose, not even when my other son was in 2nd grade they wouldn't let him off. Just curious about that because its been bugging me. Carry on, please.

 

[Linda7NJ]

great link, thank you!

 

[Salem]

I agree. IMO Candy has very low self-esteem to publish something like this for the world to see. Has she no sympathy for his family, his daughters?

Or any respect for the man she "loved." I really wish she would take that stuff off of her myspace. Maybe Candy thinks badly of the wife so feels no obligation to protect her, but what about his children? If she truely loved this man, she would not want to hurt his children in such a manner.

IF what she says is true, she shouldn't be advertising the fact that she had an affair with a married man, anyway.

I know, I know, I'm old fashioned in my way of thinking here, but I really do not see any need to hurt the family anymore than they already have been.

Salem

 

[fran]

Don't forget his little "diary"... premeditation there. He may have said.. after 1,000 dad dies.
Mr Roman was an innocent witness, so what he had an affair or drank at a bar, ect.

Anyway No one is changing anyone's mind on this board I can see that, but time will tell. Then in the future when this kid kills again or does some crime just think back, oh I guess he wasn't so innocent.

Like experts have said, an 8 yo child does not have the mental capacity to 'premeditate' something such as this. LE didn't say what was to happen after 1000 spankings, IIRC. They just said he mentioned 1000 spankings.

This could also go the other way too. IF this child is found to be responsible for these murders and is sentenced to 20 years, what would happen in 12 years IF they found out the crime was committed by someone else in St. Johns and the alleged 'confession' turned out to be bogus?

I guess the child, turned into an adult who'd spent his entire teen years in prison would just be out of luck then.

I think I'll wait until a trial or until the evidence is presented before I declare this child committed this crime.

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

sniped


Mrs Roman can testify that she heard the boy's voice in the back ground, that is not hearsay. Also they will have the phone records and timeline.


Like I said no one is changing anyone's mind.

You are right and due to the situation unfolding at the time the Judge may deem what Tim said to her as an excited utterance, when he told her that he had to go to see what the boy wanted.

Her testimony will be just like anyone else that testifies about what they know. The jury decides what weight to give each witness and with Mrs. Romans imo there will be further evidence to bolster her statements made to police. They will have the time the call ended and that shortly after that Tim Romans was dead. Jurors are very logical imo and it is logical that when he went toward the house to help this boy, he fell on the porch and died within minutes of that call ending. Jurors don't cotton much to coincidences, especially in murder cases.

It sure isn't just his confession that points to his guilt. It is not logical that some big old bad guy would come there without a gun and then pick the smallest caliber youth gun so they would have to fire 10 times to get the job done.

The CPS caseworker will be allowed to testify about what the defendant told her. She did not ask him but he volunteered to tell her he did it and why. They are bound by law to reveal that information to the Court.


http://www.law.arizona.edu/Depts/Cli...AC/depadj.html (May have to copy and paste the link)


Instead, disclosure in Juvenile Court practice is pretty much a one-way street. CPS routinely discloses all the documents, reports and examinations that it receives. In addition, CPS is required to submit reports to the court which contain significant information. On the other hand, the parties -- especially the parents -- tend to disclose little unless asked.

Since the State has the burden of proof, it will present its evidence first. Even if the CPS's witnesses are friendly to us, our examination of them will be considered cross-examination and leading questions will be allowed. Different Judges handle the order of cross examination differently. Some have the parents' attorney go first and the child's attorney last. Others do the reverse. It is a good idea to find out before the hearing starts.

CPS caseworkers are not under any rule that they must protect a defendant or what the defendant tells them. The only ones who have that privilege are the client's own attorneys.

imoo

 

[chicagofa13]

I'm just making a statement that people are fixed in their opinions on this case. If you leave his age out and just look at facts I think many would have a different opinion. I think the fact that this kid is 8 has clouded the case.

Agree. If this kid walks, especially with a new name, he is free to do what he wants, including commit new crimes. His record sealed, no one will know there is a killer next door or in class.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote from newspaper article?


Prosecutors are asking Roca to dismiss the murder charge stemming from Romero's death. When they brought up the possibility of Roca dismissing both charges, the judge declined to address that as well. If the judge were to grant the prosecutors' motion, it would allow them to refile.


They offered to dismiss both charges?I wonder why?

 

[chicagofa13]

You are right and due to the situation unfolding at the time the Judge may deem what Tim said to her as an excited utterance, when he told her that he had to go to see what the boy wanted.

Her testimony will be just like anyone else that testifies about what they know. The jury decides what weight to give each witness and with Mrs. Romans imo there will be further evidence to bolster her statements made to police. They will have the time the call ended and that shortly after that Tim Romans was dead. Jurors are very logical imo and it is logical that when he went toward the house to help this boy, he fell on the porch and died within minutes of that call ending. Jurors don't cotton much to coincidences, especially in murder cases...snipped...

imoo

I thought in juvie cases the judge hears the evidence only, not a jury?