AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[OrdinaryLife]

He would feed her horses sometime.

She also said shortly before the murders he and another boy ran a kitten into a culvert and had a stick poking it in the culvert at the cat. She had to get on to them, iirc and told them to leave the cat alone.

I would think in a town of less than 4,000 most everyone knows everyone.

imoo

Right, people can know people, but that does not mean that she, as a neighbor, should have been as closely involved with this child and the interview. As far as some cat in a culvert and a stick, please tell me how that makes this child defined as a murderer. And if it does, is the other child who was also involved defined as well??? If that is the case then this small town has some big problems.

imho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Right, people can know people, but that does not mean that she, as a neighbor, should have been as closely involved with this child and the interview. As far as some cat in a culvert and a stick, please tell me how that makes this child defined as a murderer. And if it does, is the other child who was also involved defined as well??? If that is the case then this small town has some big problems.

imho

How many police officers does the St. Johns PD have?

imoo

 

[Chargergal]

Right, people can know people, but that does not mean that she, as a neighbor, should have been as closely involved with this child and the interview. As far as some cat in a culvert and a stick, please tell me how that makes this child defined as a murderer. And if it does, is the other child who was also involved defined as well??? If that is the case then this small town has some big problems.

imho

Whether there is 400 or 400,000 people in the town, it is still up to the law enforcement, judges, etc. to know the law. And whether CR was a suspect or a victim, the judge should have known to get another judge who has jurisdiction in St. John's/Apache County to sign off on it. Also, I believe DN in her report indicated she thought that the other boy was the one who had the stick and she also made it very clear that this was just kids playing and in no way did she read anymore into it than that.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Whether there is 400 or 400,000 people in the town, it is still up to the law enforcement, judges, etc. to know the law. And whether CR was a suspect or a victim, the judge should have known to get another judge who has jurisdiction in St. John's/Apache County to sign off on it. It was the next day so they could have accomplished this.
Also, I believe DN in her report indicated she thought that the other boy was the one who had the stick and she also made it very clear that this was just kids playing and in no way did she read anymore into it than that.

That is exactly my point. Thank you Chargergal for pointing out as well. Perhaps a link is needed to provide that particular info concerning DN statements concerning the kids playing "incident" so there is no mistake regarding it. I look and see if I can find one.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

How many police officers does the St. Johns PD have?

imoo

Your point is what and what does that have to do with proper investigating procedures?

 

[Fairy1]

IIRC - the only family member to say this child was capable of this crime was Vincent's mother. Under the circumstances, I'm not sure that could be considered an unbiased opinion. Have other family members made similar comments?

It just doesn't seem logical to me that any responsible parent - which Vincent seems to have been by all accounts - would knowingly leave a troubled, difficult or unruly child of 8 unattended in a house full of weapons. It does sound as if there were a lot of family members nearby. Couldn't they have arranged for someone to pick up their boy from school or to watch him until they came home?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Your point is what and what does that have to do with proper investigating procedures?

You don't have to make snide remarks, OL.

I was just wondering how many law enforcement officers they have there and how many knew the Romero family to some extent.

By this link it said in 2006 there was a total of 11 (9 officers) so some could be dispatchers or clerical etc. It states "law enforcement" so I would think that includes the City police and Sheriff's department.

http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Whether there is 400 or 400,000 people in the town, it is still up to the law enforcement, judges, etc. to know the law. And whether CR was a suspect or a victim, the judge should have known to get another judge who has jurisdiction in St. John's/Apache County to sign off on it. Also, I believe DN in her report indicated she thought that the other boy was the one who had the stick and she also made it very clear that this was just kids playing and in no way did she read anymore into it than that.

She couldnt remember which one had the stick that was being used to poke at the cat in the culvert.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

You don't have to make snide remarks, OL.

I was just wondering how many law enforcement officers they have there and how many knew the Romero family to some extent.

By this link it said in 2006 there was a total of 11 (9 officers) so some could be dispatchers or clerical etc. It states "law enforcement" so I would think that includes the City police and Sheriff's department.

http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

imoo

I had no intention of making a snide response nor was it meant as one. I was asking a question as to what does that have to do with anything. Honest question that, unfortunately, cannot be "heard" with the verbal connotations meant.

St. Johns is part of Apache County. There are three seperate constables within this county. If this case was beyond there professional/legal expertise, they should have asked for assistance in this case.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IIRC - the only family member to say this child was capable of this crime was Vincent's mother. Under the circumstances, I'm not sure that could be considered an unbiased opinion. Have other family members made similar comments?

It just doesn't seem logical to me that any responsible parent - which Vincent seems to have been by all accounts - would knowingly leave a troubled, difficult or unruly child of 8 unattended in a house full of weapons. It does sound as if there were a lot of family members nearby. Couldn't they have arranged for someone to pick up their boy from school or to watch him until they came home?

Seems like it was both the grandmother and grandfather.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1713331~Boy_s_grandparents_says_he_was_capable_of_killings.html


The boy's grandfather, Leroy Romero, echoed the statement and pushed his ex-wife to tell police more. But Melnick said she was overcome with emotion and he and another officer were asked to leave.

 

[Chargergal]

She couldnt remember which one had the stick that was being used to poke at the cat in the culvert.

Correct, which shows really how insignificant it was. IMHO.
This is a good debate though.

 

[Chargergal]

That is exactly my point. Thank you Chargergal for pointing out as well. Perhaps a link is needed to provide that particular info concerning DN statements concerning the kids playing "incident" so there is no mistake regarding it. I look and see if I can find one.

Here's a snip of the interview about the cat.

DN: A normal, eight year old kid. I didn’t know his age, but, a normal kid, ya know, just, um, uh, playing with the other kids. The, the biggest thing that comes out in my mind is probably two weeks, before the homicides, um, they chased a cat inta my culvert, and, him and David across the street were, had sticks ‘n stuff and they, and they weren’t terrorizing the cat, lemme make that very clear, they weren’t terrorizing the cat, they wanted the cat out of the culvert and, I told them, leave the cat alone, the cat will come out, ya know, and then they kept playing with im and I went back in the house, and then I was, movin stuff around in my, patrol vehicle, and, I came back out again and, they were still at it with the cat. And I said, guys, come on, the cat will come out as soon as ya leave er alone. And then I went back in the house, and I came back out and I said that’s 56
it, go, guy, get outta here and he was, and they were like, o-kay and, ya know, normal kids.
BB: Okay. Now, were you, so you were, were you in yer uniform?
DN: When I was cleaning out the car? I, yeah.
BB: Okay. Um, so he knew you.
DN: Yes.
BB: And, uh, presumably comfortable with you, to some degree.
DN: Presumably, yeah.
BB: Um, but you didn’t, go over fer, dinner ‘n, you know, it was, limited contact as far as, ya know, he would see you and…
DN: Mm-hm.
BB: …feeding yer horses, I mean, would he do that on his own, or was that sumpum that you would only do when he was…
DN: No, all the…
BB: (crosstalk), when you were there?
DN: All the kids in the neighborhood will, will, walk over, and give my horses straw, and stuff li, my horses are really fat, and, I just, make sure, I don’t care, it really doesn’t bother me, I just make sure they know, that if they, if it’s, a weed er something they pick up off the ground I’m okay with them giving em that, but don’t give em any kind of food, um, I, did tell some ‘a the neighbors, I don’t know if he was with em, they asked me if they could feed em an apple and I said, sure. You ge, ya know, I, apples are okay, but before you give the horse anything you hafta clear it with me, so…
BB: Okay. Awright. Um, I guess, the thing with the cat, wasn’t necessarily concern that they were gonna hurt the cat…
DN: No. No. I…
BB: …er just tryna get the cat.
DN: …I, they, yeah, they wanted the cat, out of the pipe and they were just, kinda havin fun and, the pipe is four foot long, they’re not gonna, the cat can run from a stick this long, I mean, I wasn’t, it never occurred ta me they were even trying ta hurt the cat. It’s just they were, they were, irritating the cat. (laughs)
57
CC: With a stick er a club?
DN: It was a stick (laughs). And to tell ya the truth I don’t remember which kid had the, I don’t think both of em had a stick, I think the one of em did and I can’t remember which one, so, it could’ve been David.
BB: Um, and you indicated before that yer, yer, checking un, uh, under every rock and

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I had no intention of making a snide response nor was it meant as one. I was asking a question as to what does that have to do with anything. Honest question that, unfortunately, cannot be "heard" with the verbal connotations meant.

St. Johns is part of Apache County. There are three seperate constables within this county. If this case was beyond there professional/legal expertise, they should have asked for assistance in this case.

I agree. If this case was beyond there professional/legal expertise, they should have asked for assistance in this case.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Here's a snip of the interview about the cat.

DN: A normal, eight year old kid. I didn’t know his age, but, a normal kid, ya know, just, um, uh, playing with the other kids. The, the biggest thing that comes out in my mind is probably two weeks, before the homicides, um, they chased a cat inta my culvert, and, him and David across the street were, had sticks ‘n stuff and they, and they weren’t terrorizing the cat, lemme make that very clear, they weren’t terrorizing the cat, they wanted the cat out of the culvert and, I told them, leave the cat alone, the cat will come out, ya know, and then they kept playing with im and I went back in the house, and then I was, movin stuff around in my, patrol vehicle, and, I came back out again and, they were still at it with the cat. And I said, guys, come on, the cat will come out as soon as ya leave er alone. And then I went back in the house, and I came back out and I said that’s 56
it, go, guy, get outta here and he was, and they were like, o-kay and, ya know, normal kids.
BB: Okay. Now, were you, so you were, were you in yer uniform?
DN: When I was cleaning out the car? I, yeah.
BB: Okay. Um, so he knew you.
DN: Yes.
BB: And, uh, presumably comfortable with you, to some degree.
DN: Presumably, yeah.
BB: Um, but you didn’t, go over fer, dinner ‘n, you know, it was, limited contact as far as, ya know, he would see you and…
DN: Mm-hm.
BB: …feeding yer horses, I mean, would he do that on his own, or was that sumpum that you would only do when he was…
DN: No, all the…
BB: (crosstalk), when you were there?
DN: All the kids in the neighborhood will, will, walk over, and give my horses straw, and stuff li, my horses are really fat, and, I just, make sure, I don’t care, it really doesn’t bother me, I just make sure they know, that if they, if it’s, a weed er something they pick up off the ground I’m okay with them giving em that, but don’t give em any kind of food, um, I, did tell some ‘a the neighbors, I don’t know if he was with em, they asked me if they could feed em an apple and I said, sure. You ge, ya know, I, apples are okay, but before you give the horse anything you hafta clear it with me, so…
BB: Okay. Awright. Um, I guess, the thing with the cat, wasn’t necessarily concern that they were gonna hurt the cat…
DN: No. No. I…
BB: …er just tryna get the cat.
DN: …I, they, yeah, they wanted the cat, out of the pipe and they were just, kinda havin fun and, the pipe is four foot long, they’re not gonna, the cat can run from a stick this long, I mean, I wasn’t, it never occurred ta me they were even trying ta hurt the cat. It’s just they were, they were, irritating the cat. (laughs)
57
CC: With a stick er a club?
DN: It was a stick (laughs). And to tell ya the truth I don’t remember which kid had the, I don’t think both of em had a stick, I think the one of em did and I can’t remember which one, so, it could’ve been David.
BB: Um, and you indicated before that yer, yer, checking un, uh, under every rock and

Thank you, Chargergal, for finding this interview. I guess we can put to rest the cat story now considering this officier had absolutely no problem with either child.

 

[colette]

Both the paternal grandparents and most likely the stepmother (people closest to the boy) thought he was capable of the double murder.

 

[Fairy1]

Both the paternal grandparents and most likely the stepmother (people closest to the boy) thought he was capable of the double murder.

Yes. Most likely the stepmother....what does that tell you?

 

[colette]

The grandmother was the one that made the statement about the stepmother, that's all we know. The grandparents are his closest living relatives, they think he did it. They have known him since birth and most likely saw him more than his mother, (who lived out of state and had long periods of time when she did not see the boy).

 

[Bobbisangel]

I just read the reason the defense is requesting the warrent invalid is because the judge that signed it is a friend of the Romero family and knew both the boy and the dad. "The move cites that the judge who signed the warrant was friends with one of the victims. The attorney argues that the relationship violates Arizona state law requiring a "neutral and detached magistrate" issue search warrants"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...ws-120608-interview-transcripts.394067bb.html

I hope the link works.

In that small town a lot of people are probably related or at least friends or know each other. Hard to get away from that in small towns. Not like it is in big citys.

 

[Bobbisangel]

He was at the scene of the crime. The gunshots were heard around 5:00 pm. The boy's friend's father calls 911 within a few minutes after that.......... after the boy said that they both were dead.

No one told the grandparents that their grandson was capable of doing this. That is what the grandmother told police.

This child is the defendant, accused of the crimes......not the victim. The victims are Vincent Romero and Tim Romans, who lost their lives due to being brutally murdered.

imo

I agree with everything that you said. There is something besides that confession that led LE to believe that he is the shooter. NONE of us will know anything until all of the evidence is back and then we probably won't know anything until a trial because of the gag order. I don't believe for one second that all of LE set their sights on an 8 yr old boy as the killer just because they wanted to arrest someone or for whatever reason. There is something that led them in that direction.

People seem to forget that there are two men who are dead and two families that are missing their loved ones and are probably having a really rough time during the holidays. I wish people would stop pointing the finger at the two wives. Tim's wife had no reason to lie about what she heard. The new wife wasn't even at home when the murders took place. These two men weren't involved in drugs...if they had been I'm sure that someone would have spoke up by now and there was nothing in their blood at the time of their deaths.

Fighting at the bar...we have no idea what took place there or why. Vincent's wife isn't talking....smart woman...and neither is anyone else that we are aware of. A lot of men get into it with other men at the bars thanks to alcohol. Who knows who started the fight or what it was about. Same about whatever was going on at work. I see that both men still had their jobs. If they were known trouble makers they probably wouldn't have still been working.

This case isn't just about this little boy. I think we all hope that he is innocent and can eventially get back to his life. Let's not forget who the victims are and that they are dead at really young ages. It's a real shame.

 

[Trino]

I agree with everything that you said. There is something besides that confession that led LE to believe that he is the shooter. NONE of us will know anything until all of the evidence is back and then we probably won't know anything until a trial because of the gag order. I don't believe for one second that all of LE set their sights on an 8 yr old boy as the killer just because they wanted to arrest someone or for whatever reason. There is something that led them in that direction.

People seem to forget that there are two men who are dead and two families that are missing their loved ones and are probably having a really rough time during the holidays. I wish people would stop pointing the finger at the two wives. Tim's wife had no reason to lie about what she heard. The new wife wasn't even at home when the murders took place. These two men weren't involved in drugs...if they had been I'm sure that someone would have spoke up by now and there was nothing in their blood at the time of their deaths.

Fighting at the bar...we have no idea what took place there or why. Vincent's wife isn't talking....smart woman...and neither is anyone else that we are aware of. A lot of men get into it with other men at the bars thanks to alcohol. Who knows who started the fight or what it was about. Same about whatever was going on at work. I see that both men still had their jobs. If they were known trouble makers they probably wouldn't have still been working.

This case isn't just about this little boy. I think we all hope that he is innocent and can eventially get back to his life. Let's not forget who the victims are and that they are dead at really young ages. It's a real shame.

Very well stated. I agree that LE has enough evidence to hold the boy; additionally, I don't really think they know what to do about him.

VR was 29, and TR was 39. I'm appalled that so many negative things have been circulated about the wives and the men - mostly by out-of-towners and strangers to the situation - yet so little support has been voiced for the families of the victims.

Just as an aside, it appears that the diary/notebook supposedly kept by the boy in which he documented his 1000 spankings has not been found.

Explain this: The boy's attorney sought to have some of the boy's personal items returned to him: a wallet his father gave him, a snowboard, bedroom furniture and a dog. Roca told a court-appointed guardian for the boy to work with the prosecutor's office and the boy's stepmother, Tiffany Romero, to obtain the items. The boy is in jail. What's he need a dog and a snowboard for? The bedroom furniture?