AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[colette]

Maybe LE has evidence we don't know about yet... maybe some blood splatter on his clothes from the head shots. I bet they have some good evidence on him, sine they don't need the confession.

 

[fran]

I highly doubt that his grandfather's car had no rims on the back. I also think that the boy knew his grandfather's car by sight yet did not say this was his grandfather's vehicle.

There is nothing far fetched with this boy being able to shoot this weapon 10 times. This very model is used by youths because it is extremely easy and has a simple mechanism. The casings eject once the bolt lever is pulled up and back, leaving the gun ready to load or reload. Easy as pie, imo. Even a 7 year old can do it.

Each media site selected which crime scene photos they wanted to show. It does not mean that there weren't photos taken of all the other weapons found.

Brewer has mentioned nothing about the gun. Imo the gun has been located and is a non issue.

The ballistic tests will show if the 10 .22 spent casings found at the scene came for the youth model weapon.

imoo

IF you haven't seen the grandfather's vehicle, you are assuming he has rims. NOT fact.

You're right, the child didn't EXACTLY say it was his grandfather's car, but the POSSIBILITY is there until proven otherwise. FACT

PERHAPS a 7 yo can shoot this gun quickly, but to kill two grown, fit men, in the fight for their life, shooting 10 times after reloading each shot,.........well, is far fetched, at best. For a grown man to have done this with a single action 22 without being overtaken by at least one of the victims would be amazing, IMHO.

The St. John's PD took the crime scene photos. THEY are SAYING it's the child's 22, single action Cricket rifle that was the murder weapon, using 22LR. Why would they take a picture of an EMPTY GUN CASE, a 22 Automatic Mossberg LR Owner's Manual? Oh, and a box of shells that were NOT the murder weapon ammunition?

ONE of the officers, during the hearings, said all 22's in the house were recovered, the child's 22 Cricket. That would mean the grandfather's 22 is missing. That would be a FACT, until stated otherwise.

You are again assuming the spent casings will prove to be from the child's gun. NOT a fact.

So, what {proof} do you have the child committed the crime? What probable cause?

JMHO
fran

 

[chicagofa13]

You're right, the grandfather did it and set up the 8-year old to take the fall. Now he's allowing him to rot in juvie. It's a BIG conspiracy.

Are you serious??

Oy vey. I give up.

 

[fran]

Maybe LE has evidence we don't know about yet... maybe some blood splatter on his clothes from the head shots. I bet they have some good evidence on him, sine they don't need the confession.

You are assuming LE doesn't need the confession. IMHO, they aren't moving to have the confession and the statements to the DSF or CSF or whatever, set aside from the 'goodness of their heart.' They're doing it because they've made fools of themselves by releasing the video of the interrogation and EVERYONE and his brother has criticized them.

At the least, they didn't give the child his Miranda Rights and Civil Right to remain silent, and at the MOST they treated him like a CRIMINAL while they claim he was just a witness. PLUS, he was only an 8 yo child. PLUS, it's now coming out that the family had requested to be present or have a professional accompany him, and they were denied their requests.

Now, I don't believe ANYTHING coming out of this St. John's PD. The only way to save face is to TRY to make the child look guilty other ways. Wonder how far they'll go? The GSR isn't going to cut it.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

How? She never fired her weapon that day.

Since this town had not even had a murder suspect in years, I highly doubt that many of them ever had to fire their weapon even in the line of duty.

Read the article I linked. The officer HANDLED her gun that day so she COULD have transferred GSR particles to the child's clothing, IF she touched him. Just touching his clothes could transfer 10, 20, 30 particles.

GSR means nothing.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

You're right, the grandfather did it and set up the 8-year old to take the fall. Now he's allowing him to rot in juvie. It's a BIG conspiracy.

Are you serious??

Oy vey. I give up.

Is it easier to believe an 8 yo child could overtake two men with a single action 22LR?

or

A grown man with an Automatic 22 LR?

Just sayin'
fran

 

[fran]

ps- the boy could have gunshot residue on him from hugging his grandfather, or anyone else who could have potentially fire a gun or came into contact with the victims

EXACTLY!!!!!

LOL, that's what I've been trying to say, but with explanation. Guess I shoulda' just spelled it out.


fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Read the article I linked. The officer HANDLED her gun that day so she COULD have transferred GSR particles to the child's clothing, IF she touched him. Just touching his clothes could transfer 10, 20, 30 particles.

GSR means nothing.

JMHO
fran

The only way that her gun would have GSR and could be transfered and create this significant amount is if it had been recently fired imo. We don't know if she had ever fired this weapon since she was on the police department.

Yes, some officers can transfer GSR but it doesn't mean all do or even if they had GSR on their particular weapon.

We will see if it means nothing.

And we have no idea if she even touched him.


imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You're right, the grandfather did it and set up the 8-year old to take the fall. Now he's allowing him to rot in juvie. It's a BIG conspiracy.

Are you serious??

Oy vey. I give up.

Don't give up now. All the evidence isn't back.

So far he had gunshot residue on his clothing and the box of .22 shells had his fingerprints on them and by law the fingerprint expert has to report if any other fingerprints were found. So this is just getting interesting.

They still have to determine if all the shots were fired from his gun and analyze the fingerprints left on the spent bullet casings and on the weapon itself.

The blood pattern analysis found on his jeans.

And they still have to get the results back on his underwear and his shoes.

Plenty more to come.

imo

 

[fran]

The only way that her gun would have GSR and could be transfered and create this significant amount is if it had been recently fired imo. We don't know if she had ever fired this weapon since she was on the police department.

Yes, some officers can transfer GSR but it doesn't mean all do or even if they had GSR on their particular weapon.

We will see if it means nothing.

And we have no idea if she even touched him.


imoo

You're right about the officer most likely not firing her gun. I believe she was too busy running for sheriff, which she lost the election the day before this incident.

I personally feel the child lying on the floor at the murder scene will be enough to account for 36 'particles' of GSR residue. Of course, the child may have worn these clothes more than one day, which would further contaminate them.

Oh, yeah, did you know that washing clothes won't necessarily eliminate GSR?

Like I said, GSR means nothing. It was a very miniscule amount as well. A judge or jury would take into account the up to 100,000 particles or more expelled throughout the home during the 10 shots fired, only finding 36'particles' is pretty minor. Drapes, furniture, carpeting, EVERYTHING inside the home was contaminated.

Gee........I bet the Chief had 36 particles on him just from walking around the crime scene!

JMHO, of course,
fran

 

[azmama]

I highly doubt that his grandfather's car had no rims on the back. I also think that the boy knew his grandfather's car by sight yet did not say this was his grandfather's vehicle.

There is nothing far fetched with this boy being able to shoot this weapon 10 times. This very model is used by youths because it is extremely easy and has a simple mechanism. The casings eject once the bolt lever is pulled up and back, leaving the gun ready to load or reload. Easy as pie, imo. Even a 7 year old can do it.

Each media site selected which crime scene photos they wanted to show. It does not mean that there weren't photos taken of all the other weapons found.

Brewer has mentioned nothing about the gun. Imo the gun has been located and is a non issue.

The ballistic tests will show if the 10 .22 spent casings found at the scene came for the youth model weapon.

imoo

Ok, I have wanted to comment on many posts here, but what is this;

I highly doubt that his grandfather's car had no rims on the back. supposed to mean?

Why would that be so incomprehensible? The comment made me spit my soda out it really is silly! St Johns is not a wealthy suburb......and even here in Chandler and Scottsdale, seeing a car without rims on the back (hubcaps) wouldn't even be noteworthy...I don't understand the meaning or significance of this comment!

 

[Fairy1]

Nobody give up!!! All opinions are welcome here. None of us know what happened that day and we all should keep our minds open to all possibilities. OBE - I have serious respect for your perseverence. You are respectfull and steadfast. I'm impressed...:blowkiss:

 

[Bobbisangel]

Maybe LE has evidence we don't know about yet... maybe some blood splatter on his clothes from the head shots. I bet they have some good evidence on him, sine they don't need the confession.

I think you are right and LE know a lot more then any of us on this board know. All any of us can do here is assume as we have no facts. We can come up with theorys and toss them around but they aren't facts either.
Some think the adults should have been able to jump up after the first shot and grab the boy before he could get off another shot. Some of us believe the adults were disabled before they could go after the boy. We are all assuming though as none of us know anything for sure. Could this boy load and shoot quick enough to keep the adults from grabbing him? The fact is...we don't know. We don't know anything because of the gag order on this case.

We don't know if the confession will be in or out. If LE have a lot of evidence they really won't need the confession in my opinion. Some think LE totally screwed up doing the confession...that is assumption...not fact. We've only been told a little about this case but that knowledge sure has grown since the murders happened! We are only people trying to figure out a case with a tiny bit of information that has been released which is impossible. I wonder how it would be if we had all of the info. If we had all of the facts. If the evidence and facts pointed to this boy I wonder if there would still be people trying to put a different spin on the evidence in order to prove this boy innocent? Guess we won't know until the trial though because LE sure isn't letting any info out.

I do believe that LE had enough evidence that pointed to this boy to arrest him. I don't believe for a minute that they are out to get an 8 yr old boy whose case is really a pain for the judicial system because of his age. Something pointed them to this boy and it wasn't the stepmother or the grandparents...IMO.

 

[sharlock]

He's already being treated differently. The judge has made rulings that he wouldn't have made for another defendant. I'd like to see him treated the same as "any other 8 year old double murder defendant." Won't happen, as there aren't any.

Shouldn't this child be treated as innocent until proven guilty. He has undergone a huge shock and I see no harm in allowing him to spend these days with his mum. Imagine the psychological damage being done to this child to be incarcerated if he didn't do it. This is a small concession to the very real possibility he didn't do it imo.

 

[sharlock]

If this boy did not murder his father and Tim then why not get a therapist in to talk to him even if what the boy says is repeated? If he is 100% innocent then why does he even need restrictions on what the therapist tells who? The therapist is supposed to be someone that this boy can talk to about his feelings what ever they may be or just someone to talk to about anything he wants to talk about. If most people think this little boy is innocent then what is wrong with just getting a therapist in to talk to him without any restrictions? So what if some of what he says is talked about in court later? If he really didn't do the shootings then there is nothing to worry about is there? The therapist won't be questioning the boy about what happened or how it happened or anything about the case. If the boy choses to talk about the murders then whatever is said will come straight from the boy without any coaching or questions. I just don't see the problem.

The problem is that this is a child and as such requires more protection of his rights, not less imo. He is too young to understand the ramifications fo what he says and needs to be given the privacy in counselling that any adult would expect.

 

[MeoW333]

Ok, I have wanted to comment on many posts here, but what is this;

I highly doubt that his grandfather's car had no rims on the back. supposed to mean?

Why would that be so incomprehensible? The comment made me spit my soda out it really is silly! St Johns is not a wealthy suburb......and even here in Chandler and Scottsdale, seeing a car without rims on the back (hubcaps) wouldn't even be noteworthy...I don't understand the meaning or significance of this comment!

I agree, when i had my first car, a Pontiac, all the hubcaps fell off aside for one of them..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok, I have wanted to comment on many posts here, but what is this;

I highly doubt that his grandfather's car had no rims on the back. supposed to mean?

Why would that be so incomprehensible? The comment made me spit my soda out it really is silly! St Johns is not a wealthy suburb......and even here in Chandler and Scottsdale, seeing a car without rims on the back (hubcaps) wouldn't even be noteworthy...I don't understand the meaning or significance of this comment!

Because if the grandfather had no back rims on the back of his vehicle then the boy would know it. He did not say it was his grandfather's car.

I have given the link and St. Johns median household salary is above the state average, so I don't think everyone is poor in that town.

imo

 

[MeoW333]

The problem is that this is a child and as such requires more protection of his rights, not less imo. He is too young to understand the ramifications fo what he says and needs to be given the privacy in counselling that any adult would expect.

Hi Sharlock, welcome to Websleuths!

 

[MeoW333]

LMBO Well blow me down ........I didn't even realize it had become heated!:crazy:

I was just confused and certainly not upset in the least.

:blowkiss:

Mornin' OBE
What does LMBO mean? I'm still trying to figure out these sometimes, heaven forbid i go to the C Anthony thread, everything is shorted to initials there..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mornin' OBE
What does LMBO mean? I'm still trying to figure out these sometimes, heaven forbid i go to the C Anthony thread, everything is shorted to initials there..

Morning Meo!

It means "laughing my butt off":crazy: