AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[dgfred]

Very good point and all of this doesn't dismiss what else was learned. Such as the boy making threats to shoot and kill his father right to his face nor telling others he was going to kill his dad. He makes threats to shoot his dad more than once and surprisingly his father is shot dead by a .22, which the boy had a .22. I don't think any of those things are merely coincidences.

I no more think a drug dealer would come to that home in broad daylight and do this, than I believe there is a man in the moon. If they were gunning for Tim then they would know he hung around the bar every night until 1:30 am in the morning. Perfect opportunity to waylay him and kill him before he ever made it home.

And I sure don't think a drug dealer would use a pea shooter on two adult men. They would have their own weapon and it wouldn't be a small. 22 either imo.

imoo

The coincidence was it was a .22 that did the killing, and there is a .22 Automatic missing. Wasn't the Chipmunk as we have debated many times.

I'm thinking more like the drug dealer was surprised by the men and took what weapon was handy. But I'm still not positive about the drug connection.
Still wondering about the 'women' side of things quite a bit.

The new info now shows that a person saw a stranger being picked up down the way from the house by a vehicle with 'primer' on it. Doesn't that at least
perk your attention somewhat away from the possibility of the boy being the shooter?

You have stated several times that the .22 was more than capable of doing the job. Which is it?

 

[dgfred]

I agree, they did drop the ball. I just don't think their minds could wrap around the idea that an 8 year old would do this.

It was much easier to think he was just an eye witness to the crimes.

imoo

How can those found-after-the-fact underwear even be used at all? The crime scene had already been released right? What kind of analysis was done
at the crime scene that they didn't find something like this right away?

At the moment I am leaning more towards drug related or a revenge related murder... more so on the drug related side. The witness that spotted the man being picked up has really got my attention.

Was the money found at the scene on Tim or Vincent?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The coincidence was it was a .22 that did the killing, and there is a .22 Automatic missing. Wasn't the Chipmunk as we have debated many times.

I'm thinking more like the drug dealer was surprised by the men and took what weapon was handy. But I'm still not positive about the drug connection.
Still wondering about the 'women' side of things quite a bit.

The new info now shows that a person saw a stranger being picked up down the way from the house by a vehicle with 'primer' on it. Doesn't that at least
perk your attention somewhat away from the possibility of the boy being the shooter?

You have stated several times that the .22 was more than capable of doing the job. Which is it?

Do you have a link to the information you have listed above that verifies what you are saying? If so then I am sure everyone here would love to see all of it and read it for themselves. If that was disclosed then I am sure there are other things in there that is probably of great interest too. TIA


Sure a .22 is capable of doing this, that is obvious since there is two dead men, shot and killed with a .22 weapon. But I think it is far fetched that a drug dealer would bring a pea shooter to a scene in broad daylight with intent to murder two men and I would assume if they knew Tim Romans they would know that he carried with him a much higher powered weapon than a .22.

I believe the .22 was used because this was the boy's gun and he picked the one he knew how to use.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How can those found-after-the-fact underwear even be used at all? The crime scene had already been released right? What kind of analysis was done
at the crime scene that they didn't find something like this right away?

At the moment I am leaning more towards drug related or a revenge related murder... more so on the drug related side. The witness that spotted the man being picked up has really got my attention.

Was the money found at the scene on Tim or Vincent?

Don't know, but I have seen evidence used that was missed the first go around and the homeowner found them and turned them over to the DA or the police went back after the initial arrest. It happened in the Scott Dyleski case when LE missed the "to do list" of what he planned to do in the plot to kill. It was entered into the trial as evidence.

imoo

 

[Busylady]

If we are suppose to believe that the boy had on these underwear when he killed these two men and then changed, where are the pants and shirt with blood on them? I would think the pants would have quite a bit of blood on them if they soaked thru enough to get blood on the underwear?

 

[dgfred]

Do you have a link to the information you have listed above that verifies what you are saying? If so then I am sure everyone here would love to see all of it and read it for themselves. If that was disclosed then I am sure there are other things in there that is probably of great interest too. TIA


Sure a .22 is capable of doing this, that is obvious since there is two dead men, shot and killed with a .22 weapon. But I think it is far fetched that a drug dealer would bring a pea shooter to a scene in broad daylight with intent to murder two men and I would assume if they knew Tim Romans they would know that he carried with him a much higher powered weapon than a .22.

I believe the .22 was used because this was the boy's gun and he picked the one he knew how to use.

imo

What do you mean a link? I'm arguing against what you were posting. Do you have a link for your theories?

I said they were there and used the .22 because it was handy and couldn't be directly related to them. I didn't say the person(s) planned on killing the men but were surprised.

Even though it is the boy's gun, In my opinion it could not have been used to commit the crime, had to be an automatic.

 

[MeoW333]

I haven't posted in a while - vacation - although I've been lurking.

How many drug dealers go after a person at a house in a neighborhood in the middle of the day? Would a drug dealer shoot someone with a rifle? And, why would he/they shoot VR from inside the house when there was no evidence the house had been broken into? I haven't heard there were strange footprints/fingerprints inside the house or on the gun. Explanations expected if this is anyone's theory.

If it was drug related, and the person was aware of the guns in the house (i.e. Tim bragged about packing at a bar etc) then they could use the weapons in the house, not using their own to have traced back to them.
Fingerprints can be covered up by gloves; as for footprints, there was so many people in and around that area (especially outside) that they'd have got lost in the shuffle.
We need to wait for ballistics to come back, the LE had sent it to a second lab i think? Someone correct me if i'm wrong on that..

 

[MeoW333]

Do you have a link?

fran

The link you had, Fran, OBE & others asking, stated that:

"A supplement filed by Sgt. Jennifer Pinnow and Lt. Bruce Campbell stated Pinnow had received a telephone call from DPS Detective Michell Vasey from the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Teame Enforcement Mission.

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/n...-murders-had-made/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspxFor Tim to be a mid-level drug dealer, he had people actually working for him selling. That is a far cry from just him selling drugs himself. He had to be buying meth in bulk to supply his mules underneath him to sell it for him. Perhaps he was selling on others' turf at some point? Some people hold grudges, maybe one was held against him? These are LE giving this information about Tim being a drug dealer, and i doubt they would make it up. They are named and their reputations would be on the line for potential slander to just make up such things. Also the article is recent (updated 1:56pm today). If Tim got a death threat the week before he was murdered, then i'm guessing he still had his hand in the drug game some way or another.

I really believe that LE needs to seriously take a deep look at this angle.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The link you had, Fran, OBE & others asking, stated that:

"A supplement filed by Sgt. Jennifer Pinnow and Lt. Bruce Campbell stated Pinnow had received a telephone call from DPS Detective Michell Vasey from the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Teame Enforcement Mission.

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/n...-murders-had-made/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspxFor Tim to be a mid-level drug dealer, he had people actually working for him selling. That is a far cry from just him selling drugs himself. He had to be buying meth in bulk to supply his mules underneath him to sell it for him. Perhaps he was selling on others' turf at some point? Some people hold grudges, maybe one was held against him? These are LE giving this information about Tim being a drug dealer, and i doubt they would make it up. They are named and their reputations would be on the line for potential slander to just make up such things. Also the article is recent (updated 1:56pm today). If Tim got a death threat the week before he was murdered, then i'm guessing he still had his hand in the drug game some way or another.

I really believe that LE needs to seriously take a deep look at this angle.

With LE giving this information concerning Tim Romano's drug dealing, it would be a *huge* mistake for LE not to followup and ask questions. I have a difficult time believing that this is the first time another LE department contacted St. John's LE and shared this info. It's so disturbing to me that 3 months have gone by and only now are questions ,that even we had early on, are finally being addressed.

As far as the bloody clothes are concerned, I cannot see how they could be used as evidence. They were missed from the original investigation, "friends" found the items and tossed them in the trash, and only after that was LE notified. Too many hands and time passed. I am sure contamination of the items would be an issue let alone as the question of were they ever really there in the first place....

imo

 

[MeoW333]

The coincidence was it was a .22 that did the killing, and there is a .22 Automatic missing. Wasn't the Chipmunk as we have debated many times.

I'm thinking more like the drug dealer was surprised by the men and took what weapon was handy. But I'm still not positive about the drug connection.
Still wondering about the 'women' side of things quite a bit.

The new info now shows that a person saw a stranger being picked up down the way from the house by a vehicle with 'primer' on it. Doesn't that at least
perk your attention somewhat away from the possibility of the boy being the shooter?

You have stated several times that the .22 was more than capable of doing the job. Which is it?

:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths dgfred!

I'm curious about the Automatic Mossberg as well, where is it? All we know is that it's been missing. It would be more effective than a Chipmunk .22. The Chipmunk, one would have to be an expert shot, and i find it hard to believe that a boy could over power 2 grown men with it. The time frame it happened is very tight. For a single shot, then reload Chipmunk it seems a stretch. The automatic that is conveniently missing seems the most likely weapon.

Do you have a link to where a stranger was seen being picked up in the car with primer on it?

I, too am wondering why Tiffany and Tim's wife aren't being looked at. Usually in these cases, the first to be looked at are spouses. We know Tiffany was out partying not even a month after Tim's death. She certainly doesn't play the part of a grieving widow..

 

[OrdinaryLife]

What do you mean a link? I'm arguing against what you were posting. Do you have a link for your theories?

I said they were there and used the .22 because it was handy and couldn't be directly related to them. I didn't say the person(s) planned on killing the men but were surprised.

Even though it is the boy's gun, In my opinion it could not have been used to commit the crime, had to be an automatic.

Welcome to WS's! Discussing possible theories is what we love to do here. Obviously, you do not need a link to what you are thinking about and sharing.

 

[chicagofa13]

Case will be discussed on HLN Primetime with Mike Galanos. 5p EST. Not sure what time his segment comes up.

 

[dgfred]

Thanks for the welcome MeoW .

I don't have the link but I will look back where I saw the information and try to relay it.

I think it was a Latino lady that noticed a man being picked up by a primer coated car. Supposidly the fellow was wearing a flannel black and blue shirt.
Be back shortly.

 

[chiperoni]

To be quite honest, I don't believe St. John's PD investigated thoroughly enough to have checked for footprints. It's already been revealed that they allegedly missed blood stained clothing of the child's, lying on the ground close to one of the victims, after two SW's. Those cleaning the residence found them and threw them away, then told LE and they were retrieved from the trash. Now they want us to believe that he was wearing them that day? :doh:

The boy mentioned that the back door was always locked. Did they leave the front door unlocked? Could Tim and Vince come home to find someone in their house? The first place an intruder goes is the master bedroom, that's usually where valuables and guns are kept. Guns were under the bed. A 22 automatic is missing from the home. LE showed an empty gun case and an owner's manual for a 22 Mossberg automatic. Gun is missing, that we know of, per police reports we've seen thus far.

Curious, IMHO, they've told us the boy's fingerprints were on the box of shells recovered from the scene, but NOTHING about fingerprints on the alleged murder weapon or spent shells.

No ballistic report...............I read they sent the stuff for ballistics to a second lab? why?

Still no confirmation the boy's gun is the murder weapon.

Just words from witnesses.........the paper plays up big the boy's alleged threats to his dad,............don't hear too much about Tim recently being accused of sexual assault or that Tim himself told someone, just within a week of his murder, that someone wanted to kill him.

I don't think we know the WHOLE story yet.

JMHO
fran

You are so right.. Why was Tim living in this house just a few feet from the little boy's room? Since he was a known meth dealer what influence did he exert over other members of the household? Like you illuded to Fran, was the murder weapon the boy's gun and are there any fingerprints on it.? The house was not searched right away and neither were the vehicles. Wehn the victims were autopsied they did not have drugs in their system but then again they had just come home from work. There are so many unanswered questions. Unfortunately, meth is a very popular drug in that area. There are many drug rehabs situated there. Meth is deadly for the user and has far reaching effects on loved ones..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What do you mean a link? I'm arguing against what you were posting. Do you have a link for your theories?

I said they were there and used the .22 because it was handy and couldn't be directly related to them. I didn't say the person(s) planned on killing the men but were surprised.

Even though it is the boy's gun, In my opinion it could not have been used to commit the crime, had to be an automatic.

No, I was talking about these statements you made.

"The new info now shows that a person saw a stranger being picked up down the way from the house by a vehicle with 'primer' on it. Doesn't that at least
perk your attention somewhat away from the possibility of the boy being the shooter?"

I have not read that in any of the media articles. I would like to though if you have a link to that article. That is all I meant by the "link?"

imoo

 

[Salem]

I haven't posted in a while - vacation - although I've been lurking.

How many drug dealers go after a person at a house in a neighborhood in the middle of the day? Would a drug dealer shoot someone with a rifle? And, why would he/they shoot VR from inside the house when there was no evidence the house had been broken into? I haven't heard there were strange footprints/fingerprints inside the house or on the gun. Explanations expected if this is anyone's theory.

Well Trino - I agree that drug dealers might not use a .22 because they generally have their own weapon. But, here apparently we are talking about meth. As was said in the post above - meth is truely a live style - a very scary one. Here's my thought: Someone went to the house to see if they could find Tim's stash - maybe someone that just knew him, maybe someone that worked for him at the street level and/or maybe someone hired by the mexican nationals. I'm thinking probably just a user looking for the drugs. Person's in the house and here comes Vincent.... Person knows he is in baddddd trouble and picks up a gun lying nearby and shoots Vincent. Then sees Tim moving towards the house and knows he is stuck, so just shoots Tim also. Then he runs, taking the rifle with him.

This of course is all speculation on my part, based on what the article said about Tim and I should also point out that I don't necessarily believe everything the article says. I do find it very, very distrubing, if true, that Tim was known as a "middle" sector dealer with people working for him selling the drugs at street level. In my opinion, this changes the way I was thinking about him in the beginning as a small time street dealer. Now knowing that he was higher up than a small time dealer and he supposedly had on his cell phone, I am beginning to believe there was not much honorable about this man. Did he deserve to die - no! Should there be justice - yes!

But I don't believe the 8-year old boy did this. And I am not believing some of the press that is coming out about the child either - if the boy truely tried to harm his half-sister, then why didn't the girl's father say so to police? Why say he was a well behaved child? Illogical.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Respectfully snipped ~

Sure a .22 is capable of doing this, that is obvious since there is two dead men, shot and killed with a .22 weapon.
imo

OBE - are you sure about the bolded statement? I thought the ballistics were not back yet. Am I missing something? Have they determined it was a .22 but just not which .22 yet?

Thanks,

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Respectfully snipped ~

OBE - are you sure about the bolded statement? I thought the ballistics were not back yet. Am I missing something? Have they determined it was a .22 but just not which .22 yet?

Thanks,

Salem

Imo, the ballistics are back but no, we haven't heard about the results.

They have determined it was a .22 and all the spent casings are .22s

 

[azmama]

I haven't posted in a while - vacation - although I've been lurking.

How many drug dealers go after a person at a house in a neighborhood in the middle of the day? Would a drug dealer shoot someone with a rifle? And, why would he/they shoot VR from inside the house when there was no evidence the house had been broken into? I haven't heard there were strange footprints/fingerprints inside the house or on the gun. Explanations expected if this is anyone's theory.

Do you live in a heavily infested drug area? I am asking because AZ is THICK with drug issues, specifically meth. To answer your questions; YES a drug dealer would go after someone in the middle of the day! YES a drug dealer would shoot someone with a rifle! They also may have shot Vince inside the house simply because he walked in first, meth people are not too picky about who they hurt.......

As others said, if they knew there were guns in the house, they may have gone there unarmed, not knowing how they were going to take care of things, then helped themselves to the guns in the house. Not unheard of. Meth users are VERY unpredictable.

No, I was talking about these statements you made.

"The new info now shows that a person saw a stranger being picked up down the way from the house by a vehicle with 'primer' on it. Doesn't that at least
perk your attention somewhat away from the possibility of the boy being the shooter?"

I have not read that in any of the media articles. I would like to though if you have a link to that article. That is all I meant by the "link?"

Interesting, I asked you for a link to information you were saying as fact yesterday, and not only did you not provide it, and gave me a dressing down, you continue to say it as fact, with no link....why the double standard?

 

[Bobbisangel]

Well Trino -

But I don't believe the 8-year old boy did this. And I am not believing some of the press that is coming out about the child either - if the boy truely tried to harm his half-sister, then why didn't the girl's father say so to police? Why say he was a well behaved child? Illogical.

Salem

Is it logical to believe everything that is said about the two murder victims but disbelieve everything that is said about the boy?