AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[oceanblueeyes]

The recent court proceeding was held in chambers. We don't know that the evidence is back. In previous open court proceedings, the pros said they'd TRY to have the evidence back by the end of the month. Because of the length of time it CAN take to have 'evidence' examined at labs, the judge allowed the pros the possibility that they MIGHT NOT have the tests results in time for the recent hearing. Because we aren't privy to what was discussed in the recent in chambers hearing, it's POSSIBLE the evidence is still being tested.

IMHO, it may be because the alleged 'evidence' isn't back yet that the judge decided to temporarily release the child while the pros get's their ducks in a row.

FWIW, I read that the 'ballistics' was being submitted to a second lab. THAT in itself leads one to wonder just WHAT? is being discovered.

I'm still amazed that so many believe this child is guilty with so many questions still open on this case. With NO evidence, IMHO, it's kind of difficult to determine the accused's guilt........... or INNOCENCE.

Just FWIW, because items have been submitted for testing, does NOT necessarily mean it will come back pointing to the child. One will ONLY know the results, AFTER the testing is complete. Curious that LE found the boy's finger prints on the box of shells, yet we have NOT heard IF his finger prints were on the alleged murder weapon or any of the shells............OH, wait! That would work AGAINST the pros,.................pretty obvious why SOME evidence is LEAKED by the pros and SOME is held back.

The child's attorney said he wants to EXONERATE this boy. I believe he'll be able to do it. Time will tell.


SOME may not find it curious that these two victim family members met hours away from home, but I'm willing to bet any LEGITIMATE investigator would want to know just what was so important that needed to be discussed between these two parties, out of the eyes of LE or the media. Why not just a phone call?

I understand LeRoy told Big John that Tim wasn't really cheating on his wife. Curious as to the 'motive' for LeRoy to lie to Tim's family like that. Especially since everyone in town knew the score on Tim and his wild ways.

JMHO
fran

The boy's attorney said that is his hopes and wishes. He never says that it will come to pass. Many defense attorneys opine the same thing. Remember Geragos when he said he would prove his infamous client was "stone cold innocent?"

Well I have really been thinking about the so called affair with Candy. She is the one saying they were going to be married but from her web space she seems to have moved on quickly. And he just asks her to marry him but he leaves alone and goes back to the Romeros rather than getting a room or going home with his errr...new "fiancé"?????

So how much was of this was even true or Tim just blowing smoke. I would think since Leroy was around Tim a lot and may have even been at the bar often then he would know what Tim really planned to do and did. Somehow I don't think Candy was in the equation even though he may have flirted with her and she took it seriously. Which is not uncommon for a younger female to do.

The last hearing was held in chambers just like every time when the boy has been furloughed.

I am sure a phone call was made ahead of time to set up the meeting. Sometimes in certain cases, especially one as sad and emotional as this one, meeting eye to eye is much better.

imo

 

[fran]

This case has nothing in common with the Peterson case except two murders. It's senseless to compare them.

The Peterson case was a man who didn't want to be a father, so he eliminated the two people who stood in his way. He then had a Hollywood lawyer who ran around trying to find people in brown vans and satanic cults, CREATING an illusion of 'other possible suspects.'

THIS case is two grown men, one of which led a questionable life-style, that has NUMEROUS questions that need to be answered before ANYONE could be included OR excluded as a possible suspect, INCLUDING the spouses, drug addict relatives, enemies made by the victims at work and at the local bar, psycho b/f's of paramours, angry ex-coworkers, missing guns (same caliber as the murder weapon per the shell casings left at the scene), and last but NOT least, a completely bungled investigation by local LE. Good grief! The chief of all people allowing NUMEROUS people into the crime scene and removing the victim's bodies before even the lead investigators had a chance to INVESTIGATE THE MURDER SCENE, .....................WHAT was he thinking?

Sheesh!

JMHO
fran

PS.........IMHO...........there are WAY TOO MANY unanswered questions, whether the evidence is in or not, that we, the general public at large, can definitively say this child is guilty or that anyone is EXCLUDED as a possible POI. WAY TOO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS....fran

 

[fran]

A local business owner, Mr. Kilmer said he dropped one of his employees off at his home across the street from the murder scene between 5:00-5:10. He said at the time, there were two trucks parked in front of the murder scene, one truck lighter in color than the other, one truck kind of blocking the other. There were three men standing between the trucks talking.

After Mr. Kilmer dropped the employee off, as he passed, there were only two men outside, kind of getting into the truck(s?) as if to leave.

LE decided this was AFTER the murders and it was most likely the victim's truck and the neighbor who'd come home and called 911.

But wait!...............Neighbor Hannah who lived across the street said he got home about 5:00, left by 5:05 to pick up a tractor from his dad and returned home at 5:25 (after LE was there).

Was THIS the employee Mr. Kilmer dropped off? The TIME just isn't right, but yet within the TIMELINE of the MURDERS!?

Did Mr. Kilmer actually see the VICTIMS and the MURDERER?!

When a witness doesn't know they're going to have to be EXACT, they ESTIMATE.

PERHAPS LE should talk to these two guys again. Wouldn't hurt, doncha' think?

JMHO
fran

 

[southcitymom]

The boy's attorney said that is his hopes and wishes. He never says that it will come to pass. Many defense attorneys opine the same thing. Remember Geragos when he said he would prove his infamous client was "stone cold innocent?"

Well I have really been thinking about the so called affair with Candy. She is the one saying they were going to be married but from her web space she seems to have moved on quickly. And he just asks her to marry him but he leaves alone and goes back to the Romeros rather than getting a room or going home with his errr...new "fiancé"?????

So how much was of this was even true or Tim just blowing smoke. I would think since Leroy was around Tim a lot and may have even been at the bar often then he would know what Tim really planned to do and did. Somehow I don't think Candy was in the equation even though he may have flirted with her and she took it seriously. Which is not uncommon for a younger female to do.

The last hearing was held in chambers just like every time when the boy has been furloughed.

I am sure a phone call was made ahead of time to set up the meeting. Sometimes in certain cases, especially one as sad and emotional as this one, meeting eye to eye is much better.

imo

I couldn't agree more. That is the battle cry of defense attorneys across the countryside.

Heavy as it is to contemplate, I do believe - based on what we know so far - that this child did this. I would surely like for that not to be the case but that doesn't seem to be where the case is heading.

 

[MeoW333]

FINALLY! A voice of reason! "We do not know yet what happened. We certainly do not know all the extenuating circumstances. We have to wait and see"Thank you chiperoni!

No Ballistics, NOT complete finger-print evidence, NO dna report, missing weapons, drug addict relatives, bumbled investigation, widow NOT acting like a 'recent' widowed person, lawyered up spouces refusing to talk to LE, coerced confessions, bad blood between victims and various persons, cheating husband, psycho b/f of ONE of cheating husband's 'other' women, random gunshot holes in victim's vehicle by drug addict cousin, lack of LE to look for get-away car, lack of investigation (that WE know of), yet..................there are those that just know the child is guilty.:waitasec:

Where is the EVIDENCE?

JMHO
fran

PS..........Wonder why grandpa LeRoy found it necessary to meet Big John (Roman family spokesman) hours away from home? Wonder what was sooooo secret it couldn't have been said by phone and they had to meet so far away?:deal:

Oh, yeah, just a coinky-dink, I'm sure. fran

That is odd that they would drive a few hours away to meet if they live near each other. You'd think it if was something very private, just go behind close doors in a home to discuss it. That's odd..

 

[MeoW333]

Well yes it is, indeed, unfair for someone to be accused of something that LE cannot prove. We do not know if LE can PROVE this child killed these men, so let's apply that opinion fairly across the board. And let's not presume to know why Tim went to the bar every night or why he may have been cheating on his wife or what he may have been doing for extra income on the side. It's not an attempt to slander whatever character he's no longer here to defend. It's simply to show that it is possible there may have been others who wanted to end his life. Someone who had more of a beef than that they forgot to bring their homework home or got a couple of swats.

And BTW, alleged criminals - even murderers - get out on bail all the time. The fact that a young child should be "furloughed" is no cause for outrage or alarm. IMO.

Thank you :clap::clap::clap:

In various different cases on here, we have to "look into" circumstances such as drugs, of murdered people, in order to solve cases.
I don't see how that we can't dig into Tim's background about the "dirt" we heard, yet others can dig up anything they want about the boy.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I couldn't agree more. That is the battle cry of defense attorneys across the countryside.

Heavy as it is to contemplate, I do believe - based on what we know so far - that this child did this. I would surely like for that not to be the case but that doesn't seem to be where the case is heading.

Oh yes, that is quite common. This is what a defense attorney does. I even remember in the David Westerfield case Steve Feldman said that he was going to show his client didn't kill Daniele Van Dam, of course all the time fully knowing, that he was close to making a plea deal and DW had already drawn a map to where her little body was located. When she was found before it could be signed, he went right along with it trying to accuse the parents of killing their own child.

So defense attorneys spouting off their wishes or hopes, is just that imo. It sure doesn't mean he has exonerating evidence. If so he would file a motion to dismiss and use the exonerating evidence to support it or use lack of evidence.

IMO what he is waiting for is this case to be resolved on a technicality due to the boy being age incompetent to understand the trial proceedings but that certainly will not be an exoneration of anything but will leave this case hanging over this kid forever.

If I were Eryn and knew my kid was innocent I would want it to go to trial where it could shown that he is. If the truth is on his side then why try to suppress it?

imoo

 

[fran]

Who is Augustine Logan? - Tim had a DL and debit card in his glove box in this name.

Where was Vince's wife's dad when he spoke to Vince, just moments before Vince and Tim were murdered? Mrs. Romero reportedly said her dad spoke to Vince about 15 minutes after she did. This would have been her dad who was the last known 'live' person to speak to the victim Romero.

Which grandpa was the boy speaking of, when he said the 'white car driving away fast' that "looked like grandpa's?"

Which 'grandpa' is it that comes and visits sometimes? NO follow-up question.

Where is grandpa LeRoy's automatic 22 rifle that SHOULD have been at the murder scene, in the parent's room? LE showed an EMPTY gun case. FWIW, this is the SAME grandpa that met BigJohn out of town and lied to him about Tim cheating on his wife. This is the SAME grandpa that originally didn't want the boy to be re-interviewed but after it was reported the child confessed, he stated he was sure the boy did it.

Where are the follow-up questions by LE, of the child, when he said he 'saw someone go into the house?'
a. They didn't ask for a description?
b. NO follow up question about this alleged unknown person?

What did the child mean when asked by LE if his 'mom was there' during the murders? After the child said 'no.'
"She told you she was at the store."
"She went to the store after what happened."
AFTER WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED????????????

Is Vince's sister in law still on drugs?

What about Tim's cousin who shot a hole in Tim's truck a few months back? Is he still on drugs?

What about the former co-worker who didn't like Tim and Vince? He drives a small white truck? He is a former Army Ranger, trained to kill.

Just wonderin'
fran

PS.......Just a little question. I'd like to know how people can reason that an 8 yo child could plan and execute this brutal crime with a single bolt action gun, getting the drop on two grown, perfectly fit men,............YET, he couldn't even remember to bring home a paper from school when he knew he'd get in trouble if he didn't have it?

Just wonderin' how that makes any sense. Anyone?:crazy:
fran

 

[mrrogers]

The recent court proceeding was held in chambers. We don't know that the evidence is back. In previous open court proceedings, the pros said they'd TRY to have the evidence back by the end of the month. Because of the length of time it CAN take to have 'evidence' examined at labs, the judge allowed the pros the possibility that they MIGHT NOT have the tests results in time for the recent hearing. Because we aren't privy to what was discussed in the recent in chambers hearing, it's POSSIBLE the evidence is still being tested.

IMHO, it may be because the alleged 'evidence' isn't back yet that the judge decided to temporarily release the child while the pros get's their ducks in a row.

FWIW, I read that the 'ballistics' was being submitted to a second lab. THAT in itself leads one to wonder just WHAT? is being discovered.

I'm still amazed that so many believe this child is guilty with so many questions still open on this case. With NO evidence, IMHO, it's kind of difficult to determine the accused's guilt........... or INNOCENCE.

Just FWIW, because items have been submitted for testing, does NOT necessarily mean it will come back pointing to the child. One will ONLY know the results, AFTER the testing is complete. Curious that LE found the boy's finger prints on the box of shells, yet we have NOT heard IF his finger prints were on the alleged murder weapon or any of the shells............OH, wait! That would work AGAINST the pros,.................pretty obvious why SOME evidence is LEAKED by the pros and SOME is held back.

The child's attorney said he wants to EXONERATE this boy. I believe he'll be able to do it. Time will tell.


SOME may not find it curious that these two victim family members met hours away from home, but I'm willing to bet any LEGITIMATE investigator would want to know just what was so important that needed to be discussed between these two parties, out of the eyes of LE or the media. Why not just a phone call?

I understand LeRoy told Big John that Tim wasn't really cheating on his wife. Curious as to the 'motive' for LeRoy to lie to Tim's family like that. Especially since everyone in town knew the score on Tim and his wild ways.

JMHO
fran

i think there bluffin, i had a friend that took a plea deal when he swore he was innocent,after he signed it the da told him ya know what jeff we didnt have any evidence against ya
i think its the same thing here
a judge is hardly gonna let a killer loose till the results of something come back
him and his mom could do something stupid like take off but there not there just hanging
loose waiting for this to be over,hopefully the boy will calm down and brighten up some while hes out. also if you notice the furloughs keep getting longer and there all about the same time of the month. i guess thats why roca is a judge he has managed this case pretty good
i think roca already knows hes innocent
its drivin me crazy about that meeting between leroy and big john im with you whats so hot that it cant be said over email or telephone.
if you leaved out here you would be more puzzled because the drive from where john lives
in not flat and straight theres a nasty canyon he has to drive thru called salt river canyone
it was over 100 miles for him and about 90 for leroy whos drive would have been pretty easy no canyons or stuff like that
who knows what it was but it sure does make ya wonder

 

[fran]

i think there bluffin, i had a friend that took a plea deal when he swore he was innocent,after he signed it the da told him ya know what jeff we didnt have any evidence against ya
i think its the same thing here
a judge is hardly gonna let a killer loose till the results of something come bac
i think roca already knows hes innocent

Oh hey! Hi! WELCOME to Websleuths!

I think you're right. I think there are MANY who already know this child is innocent. Probably MANY within the St John's PD.

JMHO
fran

 

[mrrogers]

Oh yes, that is quite common. This is what a defense attorney does. I even remember in the David Westerfield case Steve Feldman said that he was going to show his client didn't kill Daniele Van Dam, of course all the time fully knowing, that he was close to making a plea deal and DW had already drawn a map to where her little body was located. When she was found before it could be signed, he went right along with it trying to accuse the parents of killing their own child.

So defense attorneys spouting off their wishes or hopes, is just that imo. It sure doesn't mean he has exonerating evidence. If so he would file a motion to dismiss and use the exonerating evidence to support it or use lack of evidence.

IMO what he is waiting for is this case to be resolved on a technicality due to the boy being age incompetent to understand the trial proceedings but that certainly will not be an exoneration of anything but will leave this case hanging over this kid forever.

If I were Eryn and knew my kid was innocent I would want it to go to trial where it could shown that he is. If the truth is on his side then why try to suppress it?

imoo

there is no evidence theyve been bragging about.. if they had anything that implicated him it would be all over the news. carlyon is a slimy character
re :http://www.joelbarrsstory.com/storypage1.html
he loves to brag about how hes gonna prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law yet he has not uttered a word about anythng that is solid evidence of guilt. also if the kid was guilty i really dont think hed be getting these furloughs. ya just dont give a killer a timeout knowing hes guilty

 

[mrrogers]

all there is to do is wait . someone popped into onsessions blog last nite and said that there had been trerething post and she had edited the kids myspace page of anything that had a location in it her theory vigilantes or the real killer worried about the boy telling what he knows

 

[fran]

all there is to do is wait . someone popped into onsessions blog last nite and said that there had been trerething post and she had edited the kids myspace page of anything that had a location in it her theory vigilantes or the real killer worried about the boy telling what he knows

I think she may be right, 'vigilantes or the real killer.' I hope she's contacted LE, as it is not covered under the Constitution and 'free speech' when a 'threat' is made. It would serve the person(s) who made these threats right, IF they were arrested and had to face a judge themselves. Then we'd see how brave they are.

Thanks for joining us here, mrrogers!

JMHO
fran

 

[MeoW333]

all there is to do is wait . someone popped into onsessions blog last nite and said that there had been trerething post and she had edited the kids myspace page of anything that had a location in it her theory vigilantes or the real killer worried about the boy telling what he knows

Hi Mrrogers, welcome to Websleuths! :Welcome-12-june:

 

[MeoW333]

Who is Augustine Logan? - Tim had a DL and debit card in his glove box in this name.

Where was Vince's wife's dad when he spoke to Vince, just moments before Vince and Tim were murdered? Mrs. Romero reportedly said her dad spoke to Vince about 15 minutes after she did. This would have been her dad who was the last known 'live' person to speak to the victim Romero.

Which grandpa was the boy speaking of, when he said the 'white car driving away fast' that "looked like grandpa's?"

Which 'grandpa' is it that comes and visits sometimes? NO follow-up question.

Where is grandpa LeRoy's automatic 22 rifle that SHOULD have been at the murder scene, in the parent's room? LE showed an EMPTY gun case. FWIW, this is the SAME grandpa that met BigJohn out of town and lied to him about Tim cheating on his wife. This is the SAME grandpa that originally didn't want the boy to be re-interviewed but after it was reported the child confessed, he stated he was sure the boy did it.

Where are the follow-up questions by LE, of the child, when he said he 'saw someone go into the house?'
a. They didn't ask for a description?
b. NO follow up question about this alleged unknown person?

What did the child mean when asked by LE if his 'mom was there' during the murders? After the child said 'no.'
"She told you she was at the store."
"She went to the store after what happened."
AFTER WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED????????????

Is Vince's sister in law still on drugs?

What about Tim's cousin who shot a hole in Tim's truck a few months back? Is he still on drugs?

What about the former co-worker who didn't like Tim and Vince? He drives a small white truck? He is a former Army Ranger, trained to kill.

Just wonderin'
fran

PS.......Just a little question. I'd like to know how people can reason that an 8 yo child could plan and execute this brutal crime with a single bolt action gun, getting the drop on two grown, perfectly fit men,............YET, he couldn't even remember to bring home a paper from school when he knew he'd get in trouble if he didn't have it?

Just wonderin' how that makes any sense. Anyone?:crazy:
fran

These are very good questions, and i would love to know if LE found answers to them, let alone even asked them.
I think they are granting furloughs since the prosection/LE need to find more solid evidence against the boy since what they have won't fly.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

there is no evidence theyve been bragging about.. if they had anything that implicated him it would be all over the news. carlyon is a slimy character
re :http://www.joelbarrsstory.com/storypage1.html
he loves to brag about how hes gonna prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law yet he has not uttered a word about anything that is solid evidence of guilt. also if the kid was guilty i really dont think hed be getting these furloughs. ya just dont give a killer a timeout knowing hes guilty

Defendants are even bonded out once arrested and dont have to keep returning, until trial. AND a Judge doesnt put a defendant back in detention, time after time, if they think they are innocent either imo. And he has been in more than he has been out.

I don't think you can predict what they would do.

I highly doubt they have ever had a 9 year old murder suspect to deal with.

imoo

 

[azmama]

PS.......Just a little question. I'd like to know how people can reason that an 8 yo child could plan and execute this brutal crime with a single bolt action gun, getting the drop on two grown, perfectly fit men,............YET, he couldn't even remember to bring home a paper from school when he knew he'd get in trouble if he didn't have it?

Just wonderin' how that makes any sense. Anyone?
fran

That is one of my main points of concern through this whole thing, I have a nearly 8 year old boy and an 11 year old boy, I can say with confidence that neither would be capable of "planning and carrying out" a premeditated murder. Especially with 2 healthy grown men being the victims, just too far fetched IMO of course.

I am not a bettin' girl, BUT I am willing to bet, they got nuthin' on him! NOTHING!

 

[fran]

I am not a bettin' girl, BUT I am willing to bet, they got nuthin' on him! NOTHING!

ITA! "NOTHING!"

fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

PS.......Just a little question. I'd like to know how people can reason that an 8 yo child could plan and execute this brutal crime with a single bolt action gun, getting the drop on two grown, perfectly fit men,............YET, he couldn't even remember to bring home a paper from school when he knew he'd get in trouble if he didn't have it?

Just wonderin' how that makes any sense. Anyone?
fran

That is one of my main points of concern through this whole thing, I have a nearly 8 year old boy and an 11 year old boy, I can say with confidence that neither would be capable of "planning and carrying out" a premeditated murder. Especially with 2 healthy grown men being the victims, just too far fetched IMO of course.

I am not a bettin' girl, BUT I am willing to bet, they got nuthin' on him! NOTHING!

If they got nothing on him why has he been held for three months? And why is he out for only a week and not for good?

I would expect you are certainly right about your children however this boy is not your child and I bet your children have never even been arrested and charged for any crime, much less double homicide.

Having an 8 or 9 year old has nothing to do with this child. Most of us have children, even grown children and while most adults aren't capable of killing anyone some do and that goes for children as well...............the majority doesnt but some do.

Why do you think it was undoable? I really don't understand that. It was his gun. He knew how to use it. He even talked about how easy it was to shoot. It takes seconds to shoot, eject and reload and shoot again. What expertise did he have to possess to hit large targets that were within a few feet of him?

What did you expect Vinnie and Tim to do. They weren't super humans who could outrun bullets or catch them in their teeth. The shooter kept his distance until the head shot to Romans when he was already down for the count. So what were they to do when being shot again within seconds? What was Vinnie to do? Turn around and face the shooter who had the only weapon, knowing he would be hit with gunfire to the chest instead of the back?

What was Tim to do? Turn around to flee knowing that the shooter had a bead on him and could shoot him in the back or the back of the head just as easily as he shot him in the chest?

These men never had a fighting chance but when one has a deadly weapon and shooting it repeatedly, the ones who have no weapon at all, are the one who loses, just like these two men did.

imoo

 

[Bobbisangel]

Who is Augustine Logan? - Tim had a DL and debit card in his glove box in this name.

Where was Vince's wife's dad when he spoke to Vince, just moments before Vince and Tim were murdered? Mrs. Romero reportedly said her dad spoke to Vince about 15 minutes after she did. This would have been her dad who was the last known 'live' person to speak to the victim Romero.

Which grandpa was the boy speaking of, when he said the 'white car driving away fast' that "looked like grandpa's?"

Which 'grandpa' is it that comes and visits sometimes? NO follow-up question.

Where is grandpa LeRoy's automatic 22 rifle that SHOULD have been at the murder scene, in the parent's room? LE showed an EMPTY gun case. FWIW, this is the SAME grandpa that met BigJohn out of town and lied to him about Tim cheating on his wife. This is the SAME grandpa that originally didn't want the boy to be re-interviewed but after it was reported the child confessed, he stated he was sure the boy did it.

Where are the follow-up questions by LE, of the child, when he said he 'saw someone go into the house?'
a. They didn't ask for a description?
b. NO follow up question about this alleged unknown person?

What did the child mean when asked by LE if his 'mom was there' during the murders? After the child said 'no.'
"She told you she was at the store."
"She went to the store after what happened."
AFTER WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED????????????

Is Vince's sister in law still on drugs?

What about Tim's cousin who shot a hole in Tim's truck a few months back? Is he still on drugs?

What about the former co-worker who didn't like Tim and Vince? He drives a small white truck? He is a former Army Ranger, trained to kill.

Just wonderin'
fran

PS.......Just a little question. I'd like to know how people can reason that an 8 yo child could plan and execute this brutal crime with a single bolt action gun, getting the drop on two grown, perfectly fit men,............YET, he couldn't even remember to bring home a paper from school when he knew he'd get in trouble if he didn't have it?

Just wonderin' how that makes any sense. Anyone?:crazy:
fran

Sure a lot of info floating around out there for a case that is supposed to have a gag order. So much info about what happened, what isn't in the house, the relatives, what was in Tim's trucks glove box, etc. I'm really surprised that someone is letting all of this info out. Wonder who it is that is talking about items in the house missing, etc?