AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[fran]

Sure a lot of info floating around out there for a case that is supposed to have a gag order. So much info about what happened, what isn't in the house, the relatives, what was in Tim's trucks glove box, etc. I'm really surprised that someone is letting all of this info out. Wonder who it is that is talking about items in the house missing, etc?

Oh, there's a gag order alright. Of course, the pros has found a way to get out all of the info THEY want to be known to the public, INCLUDING the child's name. Curious how they manage to black out the victim's birth dates, but time after time after time, they leave visible to everyone in the world to see this child's name. This is on the WORLD WIDE internet. Then they complain about newspapers printing the child's name.

It seems the only thing the gag order did was shut up the chief, who'd already appeared on the morning news shows and done interview after interview that appeared in print. Poor Chief even had to cancel his last scheduled news conference,.............AFTER, of course, he'd already released the video of the child's bogus ALLEGED confession.

The county court or pros, in their infinit wisdom, decided because of the large 'interest' in this 'unusual' case, it was a good idea to post online, all of the legal documents filed with the clerk. This includes 100's of pages of court transcripts, witness' interviews as recorded and transcribed by officers, officers notes, lawyer's filings, etc, etc, etc.............

Of course, there's a few 'leaks' by people who'd finalized testing, ie the def dr. who deemed the child incompetent to stand trial because of his young age,.........but then you have that countered by the pros expert who'd tested the 'evidence' for finger-prints. Of course, the only thing we've learned is that the child's finger prints were on the box of shells confiscated. We didn't hear about the spent shells or the alleged murder weapon. We also heard the child's clothing had GSR traces on them. Less than 3 doz,......and qualified with the statement, "he was either in the vicinity of the discharged weapon when it was fired, or he touched the 'alleged' weapon." A FAR CRY from declaring the child actually FIRED the weapon.

Much of the other information deemed, is from reading through the transcripts and notes of the officers. The DISCREPANCY of FACTS. Oh, sure there's a few things that have LEAKED from locals. There's also a leak that the 'ballistics' was returned and resent out to a second lab. Oh,.......and NOT in the court documents but one reporter filed, and now I can no longer locate the document link, that the pros dr who'd examined the child agrees with the def dr.,.............the child is INCOMPETENT to stand trial.

FWIW, in the same article that talked about the 'competency hearing' being postponed, was when the def attorney for the child, said he wants to EXONERATE the child. Oh sure, they could 'dismiss' the charges, but his attorney wants him EXONERATED.......so that he's just like the kid he was when this terrible tragedy happened, a third grade child.

I have no idea WHO did this crime. But I do NOT BELIEVE the child did it. I'm still open to the possibility, but there's WAY too MANY OTHER possibilities, people, places, events, that happened too close to these victims, to declare this child guilty. I would like to have ANSWERS before I could even begin to figure out, WHO KILLED VINCENT ROMERO AND TIM ROMAN?.........I want to know the truth.

I believe the victims deserve justice. The victims and their families need to be CERTAIN, the REAL killer is caught and punished. I just pray that LE hasn't ruined the chance of justice for these two men.

JMHO
fran

 

[MeoW333]

Defendants are even bonded out once arrested and dont have to keep returning, until trial. AND a Judge doesnt put a defendant back in detention, time after time, if they think they are innocent either imo. And he has been in more than he has been out.

I don't think you can predict what they would do.

I highly doubt they have ever had a 9 year old murder suspect to deal with.

imoo

Normally they would set a bail after arresting and bonding a defendant. In the beginning, we had heard this little boy had nowhere to go home to, that no one would take him home. Possibly that's why they are detaining him?

 

[Native New Yorker]

Could they also be detaining him to protect him???

 

[fran]

Could they also be detaining him to protect him???

That has been a possibility discussed, 'protecting him.' But he has now been released to his bio-mom, so who knows?.... As normally anyone arrested for murder and most especially double-homicide, are not let out on bond and more importantly, not without a LARGE sum of $$. The fact they've let this child out leaves me to BELIEVE that the court doesn't consider this child a 'danger' to the public.

I'm not certain who did this. I haven't completely ruled out the child, but I do tend to believe it was someone else. Like I've been saying, there's still way too many unanswered questions surrounding this crime, to declare ANYONE as the perp.

IMHO, because the judge hasn't completely released the boy and because the child's def attorney hasn't submitted paper's to have him dismissed as a suspect, is not necessarily because the judge considers him guilty or that there's a 'deal' in the works between the def and pros.. To assume that, is just,........ well silly. The judge has already stated he won't rule on anything until the boy's competency is decided. The judge didn't even want to rule on wheather to dismiss the one count prior to the competency hearing, which is why the matter went before a higher court. But the higher court threw it back at the judge and here we are.

What bothers me is that the St John's PD immediately stopped investigating this crime the minute the child allegedly confessed. Some officers were right in the middle of interviewing fellow-employees of the two victims. The bodies were removed from the scene before even the lead detectives had reviewed the murder scene and before the forensic techs arrived.

There is already way too much evidence that has been lost forever. I don't know if they can ever figure this out. I sure hope so. I also HOPE they re-started their investigation and interviews.

There's a murderer among the St. John's citizens and I'm NOT sure it's this boy. They SHOULD BE afraid,...............very afraid.

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Could they also be detaining him to protect him???

And then letting him out and about three times?:waitasec:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Normally they would set a bail after arresting and bonding a defendant. In the beginning, we had heard this little boy had nowhere to go home to, that no one would take him home. Possibly that's why they are detaining him?

I am not sure that is the case here though.

We heard that from the defense right at the start of the case but it seems Roca wants him to be under the jurisdiction of the court or detention center.

I know I read somewhere, that the first time he was released a dentention officer had to accompany him. I am sure that is to make sure that he is safe and also to make sure he and his mother does not discuss the case among themselves. There is no privilege between a mother/child.

imoo

 

[6angels]

I am missing something. He has been released?

 

[fran]

I am missing something. He has been released?

He's just out on furlough with his mom for a week. I believe there's a court hearing on Friday. We'll see what happens then.

JMHO
fran

 

[OrdinaryLife]

This case has not been a certified "slam dunk" for St. John's LE or the DA. IMHO, there is much more going on behind the scenes of this case than anyone of us are aware of. If this child planned and carried out a multiple murder, without question, there is no way he would have been allowed any visitation with his Mother twice. No way.

There is so much we do no know, but actions on behalf of this child are stating much.

I look forward to information that will be available. It's frustrating, to say the least, that only "blurbs" are let out...

There is more to this story. Yeah, I repeat myself and still believe in it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He's just out on furlough with his mom for a week. I believe there's a court hearing on Friday. We'll see what happens then.

JMHO
fran

I think the hearing is to take place this Thursday, the 5th.

imoo

 

[mrrogers]

These are very good questions, and i would love to know if LE found answers to them, let alone even asked them.
I think they are granting furloughs since the prosection/LE need to find more solid evidence against the boy since what they have won't fly.

heres a url to the criminal record of augustine logan

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publ..._id=kecmckeg&crt_name=Superior-Kearny Justice


a very knowledable source has told me the state has no case .
and your right thats probably why they more less released him to his mom

 

[mrrogers]

That is odd that they would drive a few hours away to meet if they live near each other. You'd think it if was something very private, just go behind close doors in a home to discuss it. That's odd..

its really odd if you live in the area and know that its a nasty drive thru salt river canyon to get to showlow from san carlos

 

[Fairy1]

I am not sure that is the case here though.

We heard that from the defense right at the start of the case but it seems Roca wants him to be under the jurisdiction of the court or detention center.

I know I read somewhere, that the first time he was released a dentention officer had to accompany him. I am sure that is to make sure that he is safe and also to make sure he and his mother does not discuss the case among themselves. There is no privilege between a mother/child.

imoo

None of us know why the judge wants him under the watchful eye of the court - may very well be for his own protection. We also don't know if they are providing protection - as opposed to surveillance - when he is with his mother.

As far as Tim Romans' criminal record goes, I maintain that if there were any charges or convictions on the reservation subsequent to what we know occurred in the 90's, we would not be privy to that information. We don't know. Sometimes, small town gossip is an excellent source of fact. Sometimes it isn't. That's another thing we don't yet know. But the fact that rumors do exist is reason enough for the SJPD to have continued the investigation after the "confession." They are not experienced in investigating murders at all and certainly not experienced or equipped to handle an investigation involving a young child. Then again, what LE or court would be?

Bottom line is, we have no where near all the facts in this case. We can speculate until the cows come home, but right now, we don't know. I am willing to consider this boy innocent until proven guilty. A benefit we should afford anyone accused of a crime, but most certainly a young child with no prior record or documented behavioral issues.

 

[SoobsinMI]

heres a url to the criminal record of augustine logan

I'm sorry, who again, is Augustine Logan? Thanks.

 

[Fairy1]

I'm sorry, who again, is Augustine Logan? Thanks.

Who is Augustine Logan? - Tim had a DL and debit card in his glove box in this name.

snipped for space......from Fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

heres a url to the criminal record of augustine logan

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publ..._id=kecmckeg&crt_name=Superior-Kearny Justice


a very knowledgeable source has told me the state has no case .
and your right thats probably why they more less released him to his mom

I didn't see any criminal violations. From the site you posted these offenses were traffic violations.

Is this all this woman has on her record?

imoo

 

[SoobsinMI]

Who is Augustine Logan? - Tim had a DL and debit card in his glove box in this name.

snipped for space......from Fran

Thanks, Fairy. I remember that, now.

 

[azmama]

I wanted to comment on several items in the past couple of pages without making a bunch of seperate posts, quotes are reduced for space as to what I am specifically pointing out.

No Ballistics, NOT complete finger-print evidence, NO dna report, missing weapons, drug addict relatives, bumbled investigation, widow NOT acting like a 'recent' widowed person, lawyered up spouces refusing to talk to LE, coerced confessions, bad blood between victims and various persons, cheating husband, psycho b/f of ONE of cheating husband's 'other' women, random gunshot holes in victim's vehicle by drug addict cousin, lack of LE to look for get-away car, lack of investigation (that WE know of), yet..................there are those that just know the child is guilty.:waitasec:

PS..........Wonder why grandpa LeRoy found it necessary to meet Big John (Roman family spokesman) hours away from home?

I agree with all of this, the LE has not shown one piece of evidence that shows that the boy committed this murder...a very slippery slope. Comment about the drive below.

Well I have really been thinking about the so called affair with Candy. She is the one saying they were going to be married but from her web space she seems to have moved on quickly. And he just asks her to marry him but he leaves alone and goes back to the Romeros rather than getting a room or going home with his errr...new "fiancé"?????

So how much was of this was even true or Tim just blowing smoke. I would think since Leroy was around Tim a lot and may have even been at the bar often then he would know what Tim really planned to do and did. Somehow I don't think Candy was in the equation even though he may have flirted with her and she took it seriously. Which is not uncommon for a younger female to do.

imo

Why is it so reasonable for you to assume what did or did not happen between Tim and Candy and just to assume his intentions and yet nail someone else to the wall about an opinion of the boy? The fact is, we do not know, and IMO men do not discuss things of this nature (in a bonding type of fashion) like women do, so it would not seem odd to me at all that Leroy wouldn't know anything.......

i think there bluffin, i had a friend that took a plea deal when he swore he was innocent,after he signed it the da told him ya know what jeff we didnt have any evidence against ya
i think its the same thing here
a judge is hardly gonna let a killer loose till the results of something come back
i think roca already knows hes innocent
its drivin me crazy about that meeting between leroy and big john im with you whats so hot that it cant be said over email or telephone.
if you leaved out here you would be more puzzled because the drive from where john lives
in not flat and straight theres a nasty canyon he has to drive thru called salt river canyone
it was over 100 miles for him and about 90 for leroy whos drive would have been pretty easy no canyons or stuff like that
who knows what it was but it sure does make ya wonder

I too think they are bluffing, if not, SHOW YOUR HAND! Do you really think if they had this case all wrapped up, they would continue to hold it close to the chest?? NO WAY! They would be sky writing it!
I think the judge too believes there is not evidence, if there is so much, why the furloughs? Now that should be an out cry from the towns people!

Defendants are even bonded out once arrested and dont have to keep returning, until trial. AND a Judge doesnt put a defendant back in detention, time after time, if they think they are innocent either imo.

So what is it you think the Judge should be doing? If he is guilty, how can the furloughs be justified? What is your theory on those issues?
It is an odd case to be sure, but there have been other child murderers, and THEY never got any furloughs!

If they got nothing on him why has he been held for three months? And why is he out for only a week and not for good?IMO because they have a confession, do you see LE going around all the time parading their mistakes? No, not really, unless their hand is forced. And this is a BIG mistake, one that can potentially cost the LE there millions!

I would expect you are certainly right about your children however this boy is not your child and I bet your children have never even been arrested and charged for any crime, much less double homicide. Neither had he! He couldn't even remember a paper he was supposed to bring home from school, but we are expected to believe he planned all of this out? He is a child none the less and there are not a lot of children that pull something like this off, it just doesn't make sense in my mind is what I am saying. It is quite obvious to me that it does in yours, that's all. I really see a lack of human compassion from my point of view from you toward this boy, I think that is why I spend so much time trying to convince you, because I can not understand that lack! A huge part of what my issues with this whole thing are his rights! We bend over backwards all the time in the courts to ensure murderers have their rights met, but clearly not in this case. I think in this case with this child, his WHOLE BEING needs to be thought about.

I know I read somewhere, that the first time he was released a dentention officer had to accompany him. I am sure that is to make sure that he is safe and also to make sure he and his mother does not discuss the case among themselves. There is no privilege between a mother/child.

Is that in one of the docs posted here? I have never read that. so you mean having someone there 24/7?

its really odd if you live in the area and know that its a nasty drive thru salt river canyon to get to showlow from san carlos

Really, it is not a "nasty" drive, I think it depends on your point of view, it is quite scenic with great roads, can be very relaxing. IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I too think they are bluffing, if not, SHOW YOUR HAND! Do you really think if they had this case all wrapped up, they would continue to hold it close to the chest?? NO WAY! They would be sky writing it!
I think the judge too believes there is not evidence, if there is so much, why the furloughs? Now that should be an out cry from the towns people!


How do you know that the townspeople aren't highly upset about this. Even if they are dismayed I do think they respect the court's ruling whether they agree with it or not.

Well there is more discovery. 33 witnesses in fact and transcripts of their statements, some which are lengthy.


http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/default.aspx

 

[mrrogers]

:waitasec: i havent heard of him taking the plea. criss candeleria said he didnt want to prosecute the kid who knows what whiting wants the defense has to file a motion for the state to clarify there motion so the defense would know what it meant thats sad
hes still got the shooting reinactment guy and the false confession guy to have do there work so i could take forever