AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[southcitymom]

Negligent homicide, huh? That's allowing someone to die. Say if the boy's story was true or they are taking it from the interview that it is true, and the boy came upon his father and Tim and "put them out of their misery" if they were already shot, that sounds like negligent homicide. It sure is a dropped down charge, less than 1st or 2nd degree murder and kinda similiar to involuntary manslaughter.

I'm sure they have dropped it down to negligent homicide because it allows the Court to give him a more lenient sentence. Also, they are conceding that an * year old doesn't necessarily have the presence of mind to plan a murder like an adult would. In any event, when pleas are being worked out, the facts do NOT have to completely fit the charges.

From my perspective, they still obviously believe he killed these men - what person in the world is going to charge and 8 year old who stumbles upon the shot up, bleeding bodies of his Dad and friend with negligent homicide. That doesn't pass the laugh test, for me.

The charge got negotiated down so his sentence could be lighter and I am glad for that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Boy pleads guilty
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/02/19/20090219stjohns0219ONL.html

 

[OrdinaryLife]

This was a negotiated deal made between the DA and the Defense. It does not mean he is guilty, but it does mean that neither groups wanted to go to trial.

Read the whole story. It clarifies the "why's" concerning how it ended up this way and settled.

IMO

 

[Trino]

Where does he go from here? Are we to believe the boy will be accepted into the community, attend the same school, have friends?

 

[SoobsinMI]

Where does he go from here? Are we to believe the boy will be accepted into the community, attend the same school, have friends?

Those quoted in the article don't seem to worry about that. After reading the memorandum from the court, however, I think he'll probably leave the state.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT.pdf

I'm happy he'll receive mandatory counseling.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Where does he go from here? Are we to believe the boy will be accepted into the community, attend the same school, have friends?

NO!!

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT.pdf

 

[Linda7NJ]

Those quoted in the article don't seem to worry about that. After reading the memorandum from the court, however, I think he'll probably leave the state.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT.pdf

I'm happy he'll receive mandatory counseling.

He can't leave the state unless he's sent by the court out of state to some secure facility

 

[Salem]

What a travesty.

I agree. I am very sad for this little guy. I have serious doubts about his guilt and agree 100% with Fran and others that this case leaves more questions unanswered then it answers.

Very sad.

Salem

 

[Trino]

It seems there must be a hearing if the boy goes out of the county or state. So much for Eryn gaining custody? Will she stay in AZ? Where is she staying right now? Apache County?

 

[Linda7NJ]

It seems there must be a hearing if the boy goes out of the county or state. So much for Eryn gaining custody? Will she stay in AZ? Where is she staying right now? Apache County?

Her being in total denial isn't in the boy's best interest.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Everything is still to be decided by the Court and at the Courts descretion. The State does not object to the child's probation being transferred, meaning the Defense can prepose, within the guidelines drawn up by both parties, that this child can move out of county or to another State. If the Court allows.

As far as any school is concerned regarding his education, that is only until it is determined that the child is not a threat to himself or others. It is not written in stone that he will not have an education in a social atmosphere. It cannot be done until evaluations are made by a psychiatrist.

Restitution and Detention shall be at the descretion of the Court. The child has not been sentenced, as of yet, to any detention. The Judge shall decide and that has not been done yet.

Read the document that SoobsMI put up. I did and where there are some limitations at this moment, nothing has been stamped into stone.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Her being in total denial isn't in the boy's best interest.

That would be an opinion and not a fact.

imo

 

[colette]

"As part of the plea agreement, all other charges will be dropped as long as the boy stays out of trouble.

The boy will remain on probation until he turns 18, according to court paperwork, and he must allow a psychiatrist to examine him at least three more times."

http://www.kpho.com/news/18752002/detail.html


Good luck with staying out of trouble until he is 18......

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"As part of the plea agreement, all other charges will be dropped as long as the boy stays out of trouble.

The boy will remain on probation until he turns 18, according to court paperwork, and he must allow a psychiatrist to examine him at least three more times."

http://www.kpho.com/news/18752002/detail.html


Good luck with staying out of trouble until he is 18......

I agree, colette. IMO it is going to be a long 9 years for Eryn, who I think is going to become a single mom soon. No drugs, no alcohol, no firearms, no weapons of any kind... He can have no further criminal infractions.

At first I was dismayed that the case against his father was dropped, but the more I think about it, I think it was the sensible thing to do. They are going to watch this boy like a hawk over the next 9 years and if he bobbles and violates any part of the plea deal agreement the murder charges can be reinstated.

IMOO, this boy seems to have no respect for authority figures so something tells me he is not going to like his mother telling him what he can and cant do.

This was just a small token of justice for the Romans family today but at least it was a step. No wonder they couldn't bring themselves to come to court today. I think they had already been informed on how this was going to go down.

So we will see what Roca thinks should be done with boy and I think he is going to put tight reins on him until he reaches 18.

With him having to be assessed so many times between now and 18 it shows that both the state and defense knows there is something not right with this boy.

I hope in the March 5th hearing date Judge Roca lets the Romans family give their victim impact statements before he imposes whatever he is going to do. They deserve to at least be heard and have a voice.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Her being in total denial isn't in the boy's best interest.

Exactly. Eryn is his mother but Eryn wasn't at the crime scene that day and the boy was.

And Judge Roca knows all the evidence in this case.

That is why he accepted his guilty plea.

imoo

 

[wanttohelp]

This is a topic a few pages back, but wanted to add by 2cents.
I lived in AZ, in a new development that was gated. The development consisted of townhouses each with a garage. My car was stolen out of my garage. About a month later I recieved a call they found my car. They were staking out a Meth house, and made a traffic stop on one of the people leaving the Meth house. It was my car. They found merth, a differant engine, pictures of Jesus on the dash board, a childs cd in the player, tons of child toys. The officers said I was very lucky to get it back because they steal cars like mine (explorer) to transport drugs (over border) then blow them up out in the sand dunes.

 

[liljim]

so much to think about here, first i will be shocked if they let this plea go thru without a complete statement from the boy admitting guilt and explaining what happened.

there is no way that the defense would let him plead if they didnt feel he was guilty, so much was going to be in their favor if they proceeded to a trial, if his lawyer thought in any way that he was innocent then he wouldnt have let him take the deal imo. no way.

one of two things is going on with the mother - either she just cant bring herself to admit that her son did this and thinks that the police "brainwashed" him into thinking he did, or else the boy has not admitted his guilt to his mother and could possibly be telling her that he is innocent.

i have a huge problem with this deal if the boy is not openly admitting guilt and stating the facts of what happened. i dont think it is in his best interest, or the victims families, or the publics. if he isnt sentenced to any detention, and i lived in that neighborhood, i would be at the courthouse that day trying to talk to the judge and going to city council meetings etc to get an explanation.

not just as some curious armchair detective, but trying to imagine myself as a member of that community, i have a major problem with this deal if there is no form of detention guaranteed (there doesnt appear to be) and the boy is not openly accepting responsibility and discussing what happened.

 

[southcitymom]

I agree. I am very sad for this little guy. I have serious doubts about his guilt and agree 100% with Fran and others that this case leaves more questions unanswered then it answers.

Very sad.

Salem

The thing is - all those closest to the case legally DO believe he's guilty. If they didn't, they'd be out looking for another murderer. They're not doing that because they all know there's not one.

 

[SoobsinMI]

He can't leave the state unless he's sent by the court out of state to some secure facility

That is not what the document states. See page three.

The State does not object to the juvenile's probation being transfered to another county or state after a hearing is held on such request and the state and defense and victims are given an opportunity to recommend any changes in the terms and conditions of the juvenile's probation.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That would be an opinion and not a fact.

imo

It's indeed a fact. The boy plead guilty.

If this woman really refuses to face that fact, how can she ever parent such a disturbed child?