AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[southcitymom]

so much to think about here, first i will be shocked if they let this plea go thru without a complete statement from the boy admitting guilt and explaining what happened.

there is no way that the defense would let him plead if they didnt feel he was guilty, so much was going to be in their favor if they proceeded to a trial, if his lawyer thought in any way that he was innocent then he wouldnt have let him take the deal imo. no way.

one of two things is going on with the mother - either she just cant bring herself to admit that her son did this and thinks that the police "brainwashed" him into thinking he did, or else the boy has not admitted his guilt to his mother and could possibly be telling her that he is innocent.

i have a huge problem with this deal if the boy is not openly admitting guilt and stating the facts of what happened. i dont think it is in his best interest, or the victims families, or the publics. if he isnt sentenced to any detention, and i lived in that neighborhood, i would be at the courthouse that day trying to talk to the judge and going to city council meetings etc to get an explanation.

not just as some curious armchair detective, but trying to imagine myself as a member of that community, i have a major problem with this deal if there is no form of detention guaranteed (there doesnt appear to be) and the boy is not openly accepting responsibility and discussing what happened.

I do not know if the boy will allocute in open court. If he makes a statement, I feel sure it will be private. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm of the opinion that a child his age, even a child as intelligent and verbally acute as he, is incapable of accepting responsibility and discussing what happened on any meaningful level - especially in public. Maybe with his counselors.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

It's indeed a fact. The boy plead guilty.

If this woman really refuses to face that fact, how can she ever parent such a disturbed child?

It is not a fact. You shared a statement that his mother was in denial and I responded to it. None of us have any idea what this woman thinks or feels. Therefore, making such a statement, as I quoted from you earlier, is an opinion. How has it gone to a child making a plea deal gone to his mother being in denial??? Because she didn't want to do it makes her in "denial"??? I do not think so.

Do you have anything to show, as a link, that this child's mother refuses to face any fact concerning this case? Do you have any link to share that even shows that this child is in fact "disturbed"? If I'm not mistaken, none of the evaluations have been made public nor have they been complete. That said, what right do any of us have to question her parenting? There is absolutely nothing out there that shows this mother is anything less than that. A mom. Nothing.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's indeed a fact. The boy plead guilty.

If this woman really refuses to face that fact, how can she ever parent such a disturbed child?

Didn't the defense attorney just yesterday say that this plea deal was between the mother and the boy?

Why would he lie?

But lets just say that it is true for a moment. That right there shows Eryn is going to have her hands full with this boy because he is not listening to a thing she says to him. Imo, this boy doesn't like anyone telling him what to do. I think from the get go he wanted to tell people he did this.

JMO

 

[liljim]

"His mother objected to the plea.

“The mother doesn't believe he did this,” said Ron Wood, the boy's lawyer. “I don't have a quarrel with her belief.”

Still, Wood said, he thought the plea was correct and in the boy's best interest."

i think a reasonable person can conclude and consider it to be a "fact" that someone that stills thinks this boy did not shoot these two men must be in some form of denial. im not saying it is absolute truth, im saying a reasonable person can say it has been proven well enough to consider as fact in their mind.

your opinion that it is not a fact is just that, an opinion. im not being a smartass, just making a point.

and yes, there is still a lot more to know, such as i mentioned before - what exactly has the boy been telling his mother since he was released to her custody?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

"His mother objected to the plea.

“The mother doesn't believe he did this,” said Ron Wood, the boy's lawyer. “I don't have a quarrel with her belief.”

Still, Wood said, he thought the plea was correct and in the boy's best interest."

i think a reasonable person can conclude and consider it to be a "fact" that someone that stills thinks this boy did not shoot these two men must be in some form of denial. im not saying it is absolute truth, im saying a reasonable person can say it has been proven well enough to consider as fact in their mind.

your opinion that it is not a fact is just that, an opinion. im not being a smartass, just making a point.

and yes, there is still a lot more to know, such as i mentioned before - what exactly has the boy been telling his mother since he was released to her custody?

It is not denial when you have a belief, given how this whole case was handled from the very beginning concerning LE, that others may have been involved. Here, as well from many others, believe this case should have been followed through with all the interviews that were done and answers to many questions resolved.

As far as my opinion goes, I was responding to the assertion that this mother was in denial. There is absolutely nothing to show that she is. The fact that a plea deal was made and accepted does not, on any level, show that this mother was.

Be well.

imo

 

[Bobbisangel]

Bolded by me.

Oh, contrare. Yes we can argue with DNA evidence. The forensic evidence is only as good as the person gathering the evidence and the forensic expert analyzing the samples.

We've already seen how s*rewed up this investigation has been, from the moment St. Johns LE arrived on the scene. Pathetic, comes to mind.

Just sayin'
fran

I think there must be a conspiracy within LE, Pros, Defense, and any of the labs that evidence was sent to to see that everything points to this now 9 year old boy. It's rare for LE or Pros to get to charge a 9 yr old for 2 counts of murder 1 and I'll just bet that they all got together...had a big meeting..and said "now is our chance to charge a kid...let's go for it!" I'm amazed that no one has spilled the beans but then the gag order would keep someone from breaking down and telling the truth...that it was a setup.

I'll bet that some college kid did an internship on this case or is writing a paper about it for extra credit. It's probably titled "How LE and Prosecutors frame 9 yr olds for double murder. He'll go into detail of how the labs screwed with the evidence so the boy would look guilty...how LE contaminated the crime scene and the Prosecutor and defense attorney put their heads together making plans to do a number on this little kid. One day this college kid's paper will be published as a book with credit given to all of the players in this conspiracy.

It just takes a little common sense to realize that no attorney would have his client pled guilty if he wasn't guilty and all of the evidence didn't point to him.
No matter how much people want this boy to be innocent it's time to face facts which are...this boy killed his dad and Tim. He admits that he did. How much clearer can it get?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

OK folks, let's cool down a little here. Discuss the case, do not lay into each other. OK?

Thank you, Adnoid. You are right. Time to take a breath...

 

[southcitymom]

OK folks, let's cool down a little here. Discuss the case, do not lay into each other. OK?

I love it when you talk all butch like that, Adnoid.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The thing is - all those closest to the case legally DO believe he's guilty. If they didn't, they'd be out looking for another murderer. They're not doing that because they all know there's not one.

True.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kidkiller20-2009feb20,0,937201.story

I think this one sentence made by Ron Wood speaks volumes.

"Part of the problem is I don't think any of us know what his problems are, if any, and how to solve them," Ron Wood said.

IMO, to this day they can find no reasons why this boy did what he did. That makes it even scarier and I can see why AC Whiting and the state were so concerned that this boy could have walked away without any mental treatment therapy at all.

This article also explains why they plead this case out.

imoo

 

[dgfred]

The thing is - all those closest to the case legally DO believe he's guilty. If they didn't, they'd be out looking for another murderer. They're not doing that because they all know there's not one.

That doesn't even make sense. Why offer a plea deal, that leaves the suspect free on probation with his mom, if you think he is guilty of killing his father??? If all close are so sure he did it, then try him and put him away for killing two men... but you can't do that if you don't have a solid case imo.

 

[dgfred]

The thing is - all those closest to the case legally DO believe he's guilty. If they didn't, they'd be out looking for another murderer. They're not doing that because they all know there's not one.

Maybe they let up on the investigation a little too soon... ya think?

 

[dgfred]

It's indeed a fact. The boy plead guilty.

If this woman really refuses to face that fact, how can she ever parent such a disturbed child?

Oh, but what about actually charging him with planning, executing and lying about killing two men by himself that you have been spouting about. Why let him plea to this and go home with his mom if the prosecution is so sure of the case and a guilty person?

 

[liljim]

Oh, but what about actually charging him with planning, executing and lying about killing two men by himself that you have been spouting about. Why let him plea to this and go home with his mom if the prosecution is so sure of the case and a guilty person?

because they have a strong idea that they may not be able to convict him and that he would then walk free with NO supervision, or mandatory counseling.

i dont think there is one official involved in this case on either side that has any doubt that this boy killed the two men by himself.

im just shocked that they didnt put some much stricter controls into the plea arrangement but maybe they didnt have a choice and were lucky to get what they got.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, but what about actually charging him with planning, executing and lying about killing two men by himself that you have been spouting about. Why let him plea to this and go home with his mom if the prosecution is so sure of the case and a guilty person?

Had he been convicted of murder in the first degree on both men,as a juvenile,his sentence would be the same, IMO

He is home with his mother only until he is sentenced. One article I read even claimed he was out on bail....(which I found incredibly odd, if true.)

Once he is fully psychologically evaluated the court will determine if he needs a secure residential treatment facility. I suspect that's where he will be going for the next year to 18 months. He may even spend some more time in detention.

I HIGHLY doubt this boy will remain at home with his mother and go to out patient therapy once a week.

 

[Trino]

Had he been convicted of murder in the first degree on both men,as a juvenile,his sentence would be the same, IMO

He is home with his mother only until he is sentenced. One article I read even claimed he was out on bail....(which I found incredibly odd, if true.)

Once he is fully psychologically evaluated the court will determine if he needs a secure residential treatment facility. I suspect that's where he will be going for the next year to 18 months. He may even spend some more time in detention. I HIGHLY doubt this boy will remain at home with his mother and go to out patient therapy once a week.

Sounds like a plan to me. Although IMO this is not punishment enough for taking two lives, realistically in today's world, this is probably the best that can be done. While I don't personally know Eryn, it's a bit disconcering to think of her raising the boy right now.

Now that the boy has plea bargained, is Eryn free to discuss the case with the boy?

 

[southcitymom]

That's the primary reason I do it. And to satisfy those who believe I'm generally disrespectful to women.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, she is free to talk to the boy about it now. I have the funny feeling his mother and the boy are gonna ignore the elephant in the room.

No good for the boy. IMO

 

[southcitymom]

That doesn't even make sense. Why offer a plea deal, that leaves the suspect free on probation with his mom, if you think he is guilty of killing his father??? If all close are so sure he did it, then try him and put him away for killing two men... but you can't do that if you don't have a solid case imo.

Because of his age. No one wants to put an 8 year old away for life - they want to try to get him help. And it sounds like they are going to keep him under strict watch. I agree that no one really knows why he did this - I don't think that can really be fully known - again, because of his age.

 

[southcitymom]

Maybe they let up on the investigation a little too soon... ya think?

I don't.