AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[fran]

CR has been evaluated by psychologists. Certainly, they asked him/are asking him about the murders, and I'm guess the boy told them he killed his father, as well as Tim. If the boy in any way stated he did not do these crimes, I'm sure the report would/will say so.

Interesting you bring up the court appointed psychologists. You realize that the pros psychologist originally assigned to test the boy's competency said he wasn't competent but they didn't file his report with the court and they took his plea deal.

This current report was to be done by April. It's now almost the end of June. Wonder what they would do if he wouldn't admit to killing the victims?

The pros is the one that said it would be too difficult to have him admit to killing his dad, so they just stuck with Tim. Don't recall the exact words but that was the gist of it.

Wonder if they'll tell him if he just admits it, he'll get to go home to his mom.

Like taking candy from a baby.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Although people have said the boy was proficient with the cricket rifle, it was stated that he hit 3 @ 5 targets. IMO, that means he had a 60% accuracy.

So now we're supposed to believe that he hit EVERY target, did not drop ONE round, was able to load, etc., etc., etc.,.......against two grown men without them getting even close to him?

I just don't see it. I'm not saying it couldn't possibly have happened, but I just have too many questions open...... Not just the gsr, the other person seen in the neighborhood, the person who threatened to kill Tim, Nicole who was supposed to, for the first time, wait for the boy to get home AND she'd bought 22 shells a week or so prior to the crime, the missing 22 automatic, the missing white car? or was that a gray primer car? like the one that picked the stranger up down the street after the crime? ..........oh, and then there's the possibility of a SECOND weapon because not all spent shells can be linked back to the alleged murder weapon.

I just hate seeing them tricking this child into taking a plea deal if he didn't do it and I would hate to think there's someone in St. Johns that has gotten away with murders and on and on....

I guess I just don't like loose ends.

JMHO
fran

 

[dgfred]

I have trouble with a few more points too:
Why was Tiffany out shopping when she should have either been at work or been home to be with/pick up CR?
(personally, I have never heard of someone buying donuts for the NEXT day)
Why was Nichole asked 'this one time' to be there when CR got out of school, but wasn't?
If Tiffany asked Nichole to be there, and knew she wasn't going to, why didn't she go home if she was not working?
*Something about this going on is highly suspicious to me, some say hinky meter.

Supposidly TR ALWAYS had TWO handguns in his truck... where is the other one?
Is there another gun/rifle missing from the house? Like maybe an auto .22?
Could not more investigation be done into the fact that someone had threatened TR's life a short time before... how can this not be relevant?

And on top of it all, where is the Chief of Police that got all this stuff started in the first place with the mishandling of the crime scene and video release?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Although people have said the boy was proficient with the cricket rifle, it was stated that he hit 3 @ 5 targets. IMO, that means he had a 60% accuracy.

So now we're supposed to believe that he hit EVERY target, did not drop ONE round, was able to load, etc., etc., etc.,.......against two grown men without them getting even close to him?

I just don't see it. I'm not saying it couldn't possibly have happened, but I just have too many questions open...... Not just the gsr, the other person seen in the neighborhood, the person who threatened to kill Tim, Nicole who was supposed to, for the first time, wait for the boy to get home AND she'd bought 22 shells a week or so prior to the crime, the missing 22 automatic, the missing white car? or was that a gray primer car? like the one that picked the stranger up down the street after the crime? ..........oh, and then there's the possibility of a SECOND weapon because not all spent shells can be linked back to the alleged murder weapon.

I just hate seeing them tricking this child into taking a plea deal if he didn't do it and I would hate to think there's someone in St. Johns that has gotten away with murders and on and on....

I guess I just don't like loose ends.

JMHO
fran

Three out of five is not a bad shot at all. Rabbits are much faster, agile, further away from the shooter than a human who weighs much more and is a much larger target. Also it never said he missed the other 2 rabbits. There could have been 5 rabbits killed that day and the kid got 3 of them.


Why would he drop any? The bullets are tiny. They aren't bulky by any means. As a kid we always held our bullets in our hand and was able to shoot too. Who said he didn't drop any? I don't know that he did or what difference it would make anyway. All he had to do was pick them up.

My gosh in 8 minutes time he could have been slow as pond water and fired that weapon 10 times. Doesn't take but a very few seconds each. If he had just lined them up both and mowed them down in one stationary position together it would have only taken a minute or two. What took time was the maneuvering and jocking for postion in order for the best advantage in order to fire the next shot and then going back in before he left. He knew all about how to hide behind an obstruction until he stepped out to shoot his prey each time.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have trouble with a few more points too:
Why was Tiffany out shopping when she should have either been at work or been home to be with/pick up CR?
(personally, I have never heard of someone buying donuts for the NEXT day)
Why was Nichole asked 'this one time' to be there when CR got out of school, but wasn't?
If Tiffany asked Nichole to be there, and knew she wasn't going to, why didn't she go home if she was not working?
*Something about this going on is highly suspicious to me, some say hinky meter.

Supposedly TR ALWAYS had TWO handguns in his truck... where is the other one?
Is there another gun/rifle missing from the house? Like maybe an auto .22?
Could not more investigation be done into the fact that someone had threatened TR's life a short time before... how can this not be relevant?

And on top of it all, where is the Chief of Police that got all this stuff started in the first place with the mishandling of the crime scene and video release?

I am not sure what you are saying?

That Tiffany was involved? Then why would she want anyone going to her house that day?:waitasec:

The other gun could have been sold to someone. There is no evidence that one of Tim's guns was used to commit these two murders. Heck the one he did have which was a higher caliber than a .22 was left right where he carried it in the console.

Imo, I think LE checked out the threat and found nothing. Tim could have been blowing smoke. I think since Vince died and they ascertained he most likely died first that the threats that the boy made to kill his father more than once were more relevant since it was done with his very own peashooter.

The other .22 rifle which belonged to Leroy probably was back at Leroy's. Hunting season was in.

Countless of mothers have other errands to run for various reasons. I find nothing suspicious that Tiffany also had to run some errands.

I have heard of people buying donuts for the next day especially if it is for work and the bakery is not open when the person goes to work the next morning. All they have to do is nuke them and they are like fresh ones.

I think the prior PC is the PC or Sheriff in a town in New Mexico. It seems he put in for the job and got it. The new PC is not looking for any suspects in the Romero case or we would have heard about it imo.

The ME stated no close up shots were fired except to the one to the head of Romans. So yes, he kept his distance until he knew Tim couldnt stop him anyway no matter how close he got.

imo

 

[fran]

If 22 bullets are small and easily handled without dropping them, why were there live rounds scattered around the master bedroom floor? Soooo......the child wouldn't drop them but his dad, a grown man, was what? clumsy and sloppy and left live bullets lying around everywhere?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

Which witness are you going to believe? The guy who claimed he saw the victims pull up, heard the shots, and two minutes later saw the boy walking away from the home?

or the woman who was standing in the yard next door, talking on her cell phone while she waited for her friend, and never saw the victims nor heard any shots? She was only 50 yards from the murder scene?

Both of these allegedly happened at the same time.

Of course, then there's the witness that has been completely forgotten, who dropped a coworker off across the street about 5:00. He saw two trucks at the scene, one pulled in front of the other as if blocking it. Three men were standing out talking. As the guy dropped his coworker off, when he looked up again, there was only two men, sitting in one of the trucks and he didn't see the third man. One of the trucks was dark and one light. One, as it turns out, was Tim's, where's the other truck? LE said they believe he was seeing Mr. Davis, but they don't know that for sure. From what I recall, the color of the trucks doesn't match and the timing is off. IIRC, the guy he dropped off he was actually home BY 5, because he left his home ABOUT 5 to go to his dad's to pick up a tractor or mower or something. So.........this guy could have been there at 4:52, saw the two men talking to someone, when he dropped his coworker off and looked up again, saw Tim in the truck with someone else?? and????

It just seems to me that in order to positively say this child did this crime, you have to completely ignore everything else that was happening with the people involved.

What about the former coworker who MORE than one person told LE to talk to him? He placed himself in St. Johns at the time of the crime, he has a 22, he has a small white truck. Just ignore him?

Everyone said LE continued to investigate the crime after the boy confessed. That's not true. They investigated UNTIL the child confessed and then they stopped. It wasn't until they called in the State guys that they AGAIN began investigating. It's all in the documents.

I guess I'm just stumped that in a double murder case, so many people are content to ASSUME that everything has been looked into to the fullest extent. They're comfortable to ASSUME LE has the answers but just failed to file the documents with the court. Comfortable to ASSUME facts NOT in evidence.

Gosh, I sure hope, for these victims and this child's sake, that the St. Johns PD did investigate all of these other circumstances and are sure of the facts they've presented. Even the {hint} that Tim was a known drug dealer with underlings working on the street for him, he told one of them someone wanted to kill him, and we just ASSUME that angle was looked into.

Just one more question. According to reports, This Andres guy that was the spokesman for the Romans family was said, by LE, to be involved somehow in Tim's drug business and he would know if someone was out to kill Tim.

You think LE asked him? Do you think he'd admit anything that could put him behind bars?

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Fran,

"If 22 bullets are small and easily handled without dropping them, why were there live rounds scattered around the master bedroom floor? Soooo......the child wouldn't drop them but his dad, a grown man, was what? clumsy and sloppy and left live bullets lying around everywhere?"

Men who hunt sometimes have a habit of taking the extra bullets they didn't use out of their guns and laying them hither and yon just like they may take other things out of their pockets and leave it laying around rather than putting them in their place. Since they are smooth and cylindrical they easily roll off. My husband right now has a bullet for a 30/30 he took out of his camo jacket and it is laying in a trinket tray in his bathroom.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Fran,

"Of course, then there's the witness that has been completely forgotten, who dropped a coworker off across the street about 5:00. He saw two trucks at the scene, one pulled in front of the other as if blocking it. Three men were standing out talking. As the guy dropped his coworker off, when he looked up again, there was only two men, sitting in one of the trucks and he didn't see the third man. One of the trucks was dark and one light. One, as it turns out, was Tim's, where's the other truck? LE said they believe he was seeing Mr. Davis, but they don't know that for sure. From what I recall, the color of the trucks doesn't match and the timing is off. IIRC, the guy he dropped off he was actually home BY 5, because he left his home ABOUT 5 to go to his dad's to pick up a tractor or mower or something. So.........this guy could have been there at 4:52, saw the two men talking to someone, when he dropped his coworker off and looked up again, saw Tim in the truck with someone else?? and????"

All LE had to do is show the truck to the witness. I think the three men seen outside of the Romero house was Mr. Davis,his adult friend and Mr. Davis' teenage son. Nothing has ever been said contrary to that.

 

[fran]

Fran,

All LE had to do is show the truck to the witness. I think the three men seen outside of the Romero house was Mr. Davis,his adult friend and Mr. Davis' teenage son. Nothing has ever been said contrary to that.

See, that's the problem OBE. They aren't checking it out, but ASSUMING. I don't recall exactly, but when I first saw this, I compared the truck colors etc and the COLORS don't coincide with Tim's and the second truck being the Davis' truck.

They dismissed his statement out of hand, before they checked everyone else's statements. I'd be interested to see it all fit together to be SURE.

It has been determined that one of the trucks was Tim's. That I agree. But the other part of the story doesn't fit. The guy he dropped off said he got home before 5 and was gone from ABOUT 5 until after LE was in the neighborhood. FWIW, the neighbor didn't notice anything out of the ordinary when he left. But, the guy who dropped him off did note the activity across the street, but not knowing what was going on, he just went about his business.

Sorry, it's just that the pd blew this case so big time from the get go and then they only show 1/2 the alleged evidence and leave so many open ends.
ie, like Tiffany's statement. I've seen it quoted, referred to three or four different ways in the documents.

1. It began that Tim said the boy was calling him, something was going on inside he'd call later.

2. Another version is she heard someone in the background, asked Tim who it was? Tim said the boy, something was going on inside, he had to go, he'll call her back later.

3. The final version is, she heard the child call "Tim, come here, something's wrong with dad..." Tim said something's going on inside, he had to go, he'd call back later.

See how it transformed? That's why I'm not sure WHAT Tiffany heard and WHO she heard.

I'm not saying she's lying. I think she wanted to help. She loved her husband even though he was a cheater. She's devastated by her loss.

JMHO
fran

PS.........But after reading the Reservation PD's written statement, I don't trust the Andres guy, or whatever his name is, that was a spokesman for the Romans. I don't know that he's not hiding something. Drugs kill. So do drug dealers. I'm NOT saying he did this.......NO...........but he knows more than he's saying. He was Tim's friend and co-drug dealer, worker, or whatever, allegedly. (as indicated in police reports on file with the court)...fran

 

[Linda7NJ]

Interesting you bring up the court appointed psychologists. You realize that the pros psychologist originally assigned to test the boy's competency said he wasn't competent but they didn't file his report with the court and they took his plea deal.

This current report was to be done by April. It's now almost the end of June. Wonder what they would do if he wouldn't admit to killing the victims?

The pros is the one that said it would be too difficult to have him admit to killing his dad, so they just stuck with Tim. Don't recall the exact words but that was the gist of it.

Wonder if they'll tell him if he just admits it, he'll get to go home to his mom.

Like taking candy from a baby.

JMHO
fran

I have yet to hear from ANY reliable source what the prosecution's competency report stated. If you have a source for this, please provide it. As far as I am concerned, it's noting more than speculation.

The current court ordered evaluations consist of standardized testing, interviews with others, as well as, anywhere from 1 to 4 hours of interviews with the boy.

He won't be TOLD any such thing.

 

[fran]

Fran,

"If 22 bullets are small and easily handled without dropping them, why were there live rounds scattered around the master bedroom floor? Soooo......the child wouldn't drop them but his dad, a grown man, was what? clumsy and sloppy and left live bullets lying around everywhere?"

Men who hunt sometimes have a habit of taking the extra bullets they didn't use out of their guns and laying them hither and yon just like they may take other things out of their pockets and leave it laying around rather than putting them in their place. Since they are smooth and cylindrical they easily roll off. My husband right now has a bullet for a 30/30 he took out of his camo jacket and it is laying in a trinket tray in his bathroom.

imo

Yes, and an 8 yo boy is {clumsy}. I can't see him having to load and reload the gun without dropping even one live bullet.

OTOH, it's interesting that the guns in the master bedroom were NOT under the bed as they were supposed to be. No, they were either by the door or the window.

Seems to me someone was in the process of stealing themselves a few guns. Maybe Vince surprised whoever? Maybe someone that was stealing from the home heard Tim/Vince pull up, grabbed the AUTOMATIC gun that's missing from the home and shot Vince as he was ascending the stairs.

Tim heard a commotion inside, not realizing what? but knowing that the boy was SUPPOSED to be there, ASSUMING it was the boy, as he approached he was shot and he was repeatedly shot until he dropped dead right at the doorway. An automatic 22 rifle could definitely drop a guy as he's approaching.

The boy said he saw Tim's truck from about four doors down. He also said he saw {someone} go towards the house. (was that Tim?) As he got two doors away, he saw Tim lying in the door entrance. All at this same time the boy said he saw a car drive away fast, he's calling Tim's name from two doors down as he's approaching. He runs in the house and calls his dad's name. He runs up the stairs and finds his dad. He lays on the floor for what? a minute, next to his dead dad, COULD have seemed like 30 minutes to an 8 yo. Then he walks through the smoke filled house, lets the dog out and leaves to summon a neighbor.

This scenario seems much more plausible than an 8 yo, using a single, bolt action 22, shooting and reloading TEN times, and hitting every single target. Moving target.

The guns lying on the master bedroom floor were forgotten.

What about the former fellow employee? The one who had it in for Tim. Oh, when questioned he denied that, but more than one person told LE to talk to him. He has a white vehicle, a 22, (course, he told LE he's never shot the 22 he has, do you believe that?), he put himself in St. Johns at the time of the murders. It was the previous week Tim told his drug dealer someone wanted to kill him and the former fellow employee told LE he had talked to Tim the previous week on his cell phone. This same guy was also a former Army ranger, which would mean he must be a pretty good shot. Trained to kill.

Just too many unanswered questions.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

I have yet to hear from ANY reliable source what the prosecution's competency report stated. If you have a source for this, please provide it. As far as I am concerned, it's noting more than speculation.

The current court ordered evaluations consist of standardized testing, interviews with others, as well as, anywhere from 1 to 4 hours of interviews with the boy.

He won't be TOLD any such thing.

The guardian ad lidem (sp?) was quoted as saying that both doctors said the child was incompetent. It's back around the time of the plea deal hearing. Your welcome to look for it.

If you don't want to believe the person the COURT chose to represent the child, well then I just don't know what to say.

Four hours of interview with the boy sure are taking a long time. Maybe he won't say what they want to hear.

How do you know what the child will be told. He was told by two women officers that they ALL would tell the truth in that room and then they proceeded to lie to him and tell him someone saw him with a gun.

Just imagine where we'd be if they hadn't released that film. :waitasec:

We'd actually believe the child REALLY did confess rather than they coerced him into confessing a lie. :bang:

JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All 8 year old or almost 9 year old boys are not clumsy. Some of them are excelling in sports by that age. This boy skateboarded, played soccer, basketball, hunted and fished, I highly doubt he was clumsy doing any of them. If he dropped one there was nothing stopping him from picking them up. From what I remember he got the bullets out of a box. Holding three bullets with one already loaded is not some phenomenal feat and then loading one and holding 5 or 6 small bullets in his hand is easy.

A single bolt action shot 9 times and then one final time would certainly bring people down. Humans can't out run bullets. Even cops have been killed in the line of duty by a criminal who had a single bolt action rifle.

Imo, if Tim had heard anything he would have mentioned it to his wife and he would have immediately retrieved his higher caliber weapon when trying to reach the home. Both men were unarmed.

There simply is no evidence whatsoever that there was some other person in that home or even close to the house during this 8 minute time span. This is the same kid that said he walked around in broad daylight in a very open community for 2.5 hours yet not one soul saw him. If he was just coming up the block when he found Tim then why didn't he hear the shots that rang out? The neighbors were inside their own home and heard it but he did not when he was out in the wide open space?

It shows these murders had nothing to do with robbery. Guns are on the top of the list to be stolen. They would have taken the higher powered more expensive guns and if they used one to murder anyone it sure wouldn't be a .22 but an automatic/semi automatic higher powered weapon where it wouldnt have taken 10 shots. But they didn't. The witness said they heard a pop and then a delay and then a pop and then a delay three of four times. That is totally consistent with the gun being a single bolt action that has to be reloaded each time.

The only white vehicle I remember was one where a co-worker owned a Ford Ranger pickup. I doubt the back rims were black or however the boy described them and as a boy from a rural area he would certainly know the difference in a truck than a car.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have yet to hear from ANY reliable source what the prosecution's competency report stated. If you have a source for this, please provide it. As far as I am concerned, it's noting more than speculation.

The current court ordered evaluations consist of standardized testing, interviews with others, as well as, anywhere from 1 to 4 hours of interviews with the boy.

He won't be TOLD any such thing.

No they wont, you are right.

They will let him do all the talking. They learn much more that way and he is a very chatty child.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well certainly he would be confused about it no matter what. The power of suggestion is a mighty thing, and he has listened to and heard multiple sessions claiming him as the shooter... the only one so far. Not just suggestion in the video, in several court sessions since and by talk in general.
If the boy was claiming to be the only shooter, I am sure the test/evaluations would NOT be taking this long and the prosecution would be quite happy with the results. Since this is not the case and they seem to be using stalling tactics instead, one can guess on their own that the evaluations are not exactly what the prosecution has wanted.
If the boy was claiming to not be the shooter, who would want to believe that from the prosecution's side? After all, what little evidence they have says he is the only suspect and the evidence shows he 'could' have been the shooter. They probably would say he is blocking it out.
In my opinion whether the shooter or not, the feeling of guilt would be immense and he may feel he did do something wrong that caused their deaths even if he didn't. I believe the evaluators are probably confused with their own evaluations.

I think they may be very perplexed as to what they are uncovering in a boy so young. I think it makes them think they need more time with him to assess him and further peel away the onion skin.

Well I certainly believe that he is the sole shooter. Nothing points away from this kid. Nothing.

I think that may be the problem. He may have admitted that he killed both men. I do believe he has already told others the same thing but I am not sure he has any guilt or remorse for what he has done and that may be why the evaluators are left scratching their heads and needing more time.

imo

 

[fran]

I live with my grandson that just turned 9. He plays sports and swims and skateboards and rides a bike, fishes and draws and makes up stories. He also could not even begin to plan the cold blooded murder of his dad like people claim this child did. Eight, or almost nine yo's just don't have it in their mental capacity to work out something like that.

Just wouldn't happen.

One of the 'evidence' items was the list. That never happened. They do NOT have it. They looked for it with a SW. It wasn't there.

I'm sure LE was able to lift lots of readable prints from the home. But we haven't seen any reports about it. So, we can't say IF they did or did NOT find any unknown prints. They also just left the other guns at the home. Too bad they didn't check them for prints.

Tim was known by MANY to keep a second gun in his car. Yet, LE only found one. Doesn't sound like they looked for a second one to me. Maybe Tim had it in his hand and didn't have a chance to shoot???? Maybe someone took it.

There's many times a robber or whatever is surprised in the act and doesn't take what they came for. Course, here we know there's a missing gun. That is, if you look at what's been said by those involved. I don't see anywhere where LE questioned anyone about the missing automatic 22 rifle.

This is an 8 yo child. When they try to remember an incident, the quite often don't have a clear recall, they confuse parts of other incidents into the middle of what they're now trying to recall. They just don't have all the tools for total recall as an adult does. He remembers the vehicle was white, small, with plain back wheels (ie meaning no hub caps).

The boy remembers someone walking towards the front door. I believe it may have been Tim. The rest is muddled.

There was a woman standing in the yard next door. She didn't hear the gunshots, yet we're supposed to believe a guy across the street, inside his home changing his baby's diapers heard the shots??????? Tim was just outside the door, yet he didn't hear the gunshots. Yet, we're supposed to believe the guy across the street heard it inside his home, yet his wife didn't hear a thing?

I guess if you IGNORE everything else, you can choose this child as the shooter.

yep,
JMHO
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Fran, You cant lump all 8 or 9 year olds with your grandson.

Of course you think he isn't capable of doing something like this and I have no doubt that he isn't but he is not THIS kid.

Kids don't come in cookie cutter molds.

I have grandsons this age who have been hunting since they were around 7. They would have no problem handling the weapon or the bullets. They certainly aren't clumsy children as their father is a fanatic about safety and would never allow them to hunt if they were.

I am not ignoring anything.

The time line alone shows there was no one there but the boy when these murders were carried out. All the walking up the street, calling to a dead Tim and around the block for 2.5 hours and seeing the car is just a bunch of bunk, just like it was when the 11 year old PA boy also tried to lead the police on a wild goose chase looking for a black truck that didn't exist.

imo

 

[fran]

There's a world of difference between an 8 yo and an 11 yo. If they were the same, they'd just put them all in the same class room.

I don't know anything about the other child other than they found 'evidence' ie shells or something by where he caught the bus,...........and one of his sisters saw him with the gun???

Like you said, 'kids don't come in cookie cutter molds.'

This wasn't one shot, this was 10 shots with a single, bolt action at two moving targets.

Like I said, if you ignore the drug dealing, threats of death, the jealous boyfriends, the former fellow employee who didn't like both guys, the fight the one couple got in the night before, the cheating husband, the person who was supposed to be there and 'said' she wasn't, missing weapons, evidence of TWO weapons used for the spent shell casings..................

Well, THEN you could say it was the child. Too bad this is real life and not just a made for tv movie.

JMHO
fran

 

[Fairy1]

I live with my grandson that just turned 9. He plays sports and swims and skateboards and rides a bike, fishes and draws and makes up stories. He also could not even begin to plan the cold blooded murder of his dad like people claim this child did. Eight, or almost nine yo's just don't have it in their mental capacity to work out something like that.

Just wouldn't happen.

One of the 'evidence' items was the list. That never happened. They do NOT have it. They looked for it with a SW. It wasn't there.

I'm sure LE was able to lift lots of readable prints from the home. But we haven't seen any reports about it. So, we can't say IF they did or did NOT find any unknown prints. They also just left the other guns at the home. Too bad they didn't check them for prints.

Tim was known by MANY to keep a second gun in his car. Yet, LE only found one. Doesn't sound like they looked for a second one to me. Maybe Tim had it in his hand and didn't have a chance to shoot???? Maybe someone took it.

There's many times a robber or whatever is surprised in the act and doesn't take what they came for. Course, here we know there's a missing gun. That is, if you look at what's been said by those involved. I don't see anywhere where LE questioned anyone about the missing automatic 22 rifle.

This is an 8 yo child. When they try to remember an incident, the quite often don't have a clear recall, they confuse parts of other incidents into the middle of what they're now trying to recall. They just don't have all the tools for total recall as an adult does. He remembers the vehicle was white, small, with plain back wheels (ie meaning no hub caps).

The boy remembers someone walking towards the front door. I believe it may have been Tim. The rest is muddled.

There was a woman standing in the yard next door. She didn't hear the gunshots, yet we're supposed to believe a guy across the street, inside his home changing his baby's diapers heard the shots??????? Tim was just outside the door, yet he didn't hear the gunshots. Yet, we're supposed to believe the guy across the street heard it inside his home, yet his wife didn't hear a thing?

I guess if you IGNORE everything else, you can choose this child as the shooter.

yep,
JMHO
fran

ITA, fran. A lot of this case is speculation on our part. Still, I have a 17 year old son who is brilliant. However, thinking back to when he was 8 or 9, he could never have pulled off what this child has been accused of doing. Then again, we're not a hunting family and my children have no true-life experience with firearms.

Seems to me the smaller ammo would be more difficult for a child of this age to handle effectively. Remember when we were little how we had those big, fat pencils in school? I suppose they still do that, but, IIRC, it's because little hands cannot grasp and control small things.

It is exactly the tight window of time that leads me, personally, to believe this child did not kill these men. It would have to have been absolutely flawless from beginning to end. No matter how manipulative and intelligent this child is rumored to have been/be, I just can't see this having happened.

And finally, I'm not sure how much time the shrinks seeing him now need if he has "confessed" to them that he did, in fact, murder his father and Tim. Then again, we will probably never know what he reveals to them. I suppose we will have to speculate even more based on the sentencing. Based on what we've seen so far, I just don't have the feeling the court considers this little boy to be a cold-blooded murderer. That's JMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There's a world of difference between an 8 yo and an 11 yo. If they were the same, they'd just put them all in the same class room.

I don't know anything about the other child other than they found 'evidence' ie shells or something by where he caught the bus,...........and one of his sisters saw him with the gun???

Like you said, 'kids don't come in cookie cutter molds.'

This wasn't one shot, this was 10 shots with a single, bolt action at two moving targets.

Like I said, if you ignore the drug dealing, threats of death, the jealous boyfriends, the former fellow employee who didn't like both guys, the fight the one couple got in the night before, the cheating husband, the person who was supposed to be there and 'said' she wasn't, missing weapons, evidence of TWO weapons used for the spent shell casings..................

Well, THEN you could say it was the child. Too bad this is real life and not just a made for tv movie.

JMHO
fran

Well it certainly is too bad for Romans and Vinnie. Both of their lives were snuffed out in about 8 minutes.

How can I put the drug dealers into this mix, Fran when there is no evidence this is a drug related crime? Drug dealers have weapons of their own and they buy then on the street where they are not traceable. I am sure LE went over all Tim's belongs with a fine tooth comb to see if any drug residue was found. So if he was a drug dealer where is the evidence he was? He didn't have any drugs on him. He didn't have any drugs in his system and neither did Vinnie. Both died clean as a whistle. Tim had no time or knowledge of their impending fate so he could cover up any drugs. Drug dealers don't leave any weapons behind and they sure don't leave cash behind that cant even be traced back to them.

The death threat to Tim cant even be verified. Maybe Tim was talking crap. You say I ignore this but aren't you ignoring that this very kid who was at the murder scene had threatened to kill-shoot his father and more than once?

I have never seen a place of employment where all coworkers like everyone. The shootings I hear about they come to the workplace and mow them down there. Cheating husbands and cheating wives are far too commonplace today unfortunately but who are you saying would murder Tim because of that? I think Tanya, like most spouses was the last to know and only learned of the affair after his death. His new supposedly girlfriend surely wouldn't have killed him if he had just asked her to marry him. Which imo, was nothing but a line of bull. Tim had no intentions of getting a divorce imo. He, like those who cheat want their cake and eat it too.

We cannot assume that the weapons are still missing. They very easily could have been found. I don't see the missing weapons having anything to do with the murder weapon that was used on these two men. If they were found then those weapons would not even enter into this case as they were never at the crime scene the day this happened.

Again, it is according to the child. I do not think there is a big difference in a 9 year old versus a 11 year old.

The PA boy tried to lie his way out of it too, Fran. Even when raising children 9 or 11 or whatever age, they try to deny, deny as long as they can even on the simplest of things. They just don't want to take the wrap even if they are the ones doing wrong. Often it starts out just like this interview did where he fed them his line of spiel thinking he was in the clear and they would believe the story that made no sense, then he gives up a little more and a little more. The same way parents have to try and get the truth out of their own child on something they have caught them doing that they shouldn't be doing. Sometimes it is like pulling hens teeth to get them to admit they were in the wrong. And in a child's vocabulary even when talking with their parents its often "uh,I think I did" "I may have" "I don't think so" They just dont want to take the blame.

I don't know why anyone has to make Vinnie and Tim into some type of super humans. If people could outrun bullets going hundreds of feet per second then I am sure more people would do that and save their own lives when someone is trying to kill them. They had no weapons, they were large targets, no expertise marksmanship needed. Just eject, reload, point and fire wherever the targets were at the time until they were down, helpless and dead.

The velocity of a bullet is given in feet per second (fps) in the United States. The 0.22 rimfire cartridge, which has a very small powder charge, sends its bullets on their way at between 370 m/s and 460 m/s. Cartridges in rifles -- centerfire cartridges -- propel their bullets at a much faster rate. The 0.220 Swift, which drives a very small bullet at over 1220 m/s, is the cartridge with the highest velocity.

imo