AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[OrdinaryLife]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Speaking for myself only ...everything I've posted and have used to form my opinions, in this case, as well as every other case I've ever posted a comment on...has come directly from court filings interpreted through my own life experience.

I quoted and responded to your post. There is not one person that I have met here that has not had some personal experience. The levels may vary, but many, many have been unfortunately touched somehow and in someway. That, in my opinion, shapes/colors the way we think and how the impact of a crime may touch us. None of it is wrong nor correct. It's part of who we are.

Time for some brevity. I think I'll check the RedSox game standings vs the Yankees....

imvho

 

[Linda7NJ]

I wasn't actually referring to you, but it's interesting that you took my post that way.

And just for the record, I am also entitled to my own opinions and the consideration of other posters. I find the majority of your posts offensive, particularly when they're directed specifically at me, which they very often are.

I went all the way back to page 14....Nope, I'm not seeing it. But I did find another of your posts, and I did respond to it, that was very very offensive.

 

[Fairy1]

I went all the way back to page 14....Nope, I'm not seeing it. But I did find another of your posts, and I did respond to it, that was very very offensive.

Well, I don't see it here. But I'll take your word for it. I'm going to just stick to the facts of THIS case, if it's all the same to you.

Guess we'll see some more facts tomorrow....

 

[chiperoni]

Hi Linda Hope you realize that Robert Hare has backed off on your signature line about pschopaths being born that way.. He is quoted as saying, "You're not born a psychopath but the foundation is there." He has said temperament is an important element but does not necessarily mean the child will be a psychopath. He goes on to say environment is a factor. No gene or set of genes have been identified. There is not enough research so far and conclusions are not definitive.



www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30267075

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi Linda Hope you realize that Robert Hare has backed off on your signature line about psychopaths being born that way.. He is quoted as saying, "You're not born a psychopath but the foundation is there." He has said temperament is an important element but does not necessarily mean the child will be a psychopath. He goes on to say environment is a factor. No gene or set of genes have been identified. There is not enough research so far and conclusions are not definitive.



www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30267075

Thanks. Interesting read.

What caught my eye it said the psychopath can come from a good home but the child just doesn't emotionally connect or have the ability to have empathy or remorse.

He talked about Harris in the Columbine massacre and said it wasn't because of his parents or home environment as his older brother was a well rounded individual.

What it boils down to it seems there is really no way to know if it is perhaps genetic or environment or a combination.

Interesting also that he said they could recognize a child with psychopathic traits as early as age 2.

imo

 

[Fairy1]

Hi Linda Hope you realize that Robert Hare has backed off on your signature line about pschopaths being born that way.. He is quoted as saying, "You're not born a psychopath but the foundation is there." He has said temperament is an important element but does not necessarily mean the child will be a psychopath. He goes on to say environment is a factor. No gene or set of genes have been identified. There is not enough research so far and conclusions are not definitive.



www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30267075

This is very interesting. Thank you, chiperoni!

I do certainly hope that if CR had shown signs of anything that could be construed as a psychopatic personality, his own father, who had been his primary caregiver from the age of 2, would have seen the signs. Surely there would have been some red flags. And I don't mean his charming or manipulative personality. I mean some serious red flags that would have tipped VR off that HE was a target of truly deep-seated anger and rage. I just don't see that as having happened here.

And if those signs were apparent, someone missed them.....big time!

 

[Fairy1]

Thanks. Interesting read.

What caught my eye it said the psychopath can come from a good home but the child just doesn't emotionally connect or have the ability to have empathy or remorse.

He talked about Harris in the Columbine massacre and said it wasn't because of his parents or home environment as his older brother was a well rounded individual.

What it boils down to it seems there is really no way to know if it is perhaps genetic or environment or a combination.

Interesting also that he said they could recognize a child with psychopathic traits as early as age 2.

imo

Well, it could be argued then, that Harris' parents didn't recognize what were probably telltale signs either. And let's not overlook the fact that Harris was in high school whereas CR was 8. It's apples and oranges IMO.

Is it nature or nurture? This question can be asked of any siblings raised in the same household and under the same conditions the world over. CR doesn't have any siblings raised under the same circumstances as he was. So, I suppose we'll never know how his environment may have shaped him. I have 2 brothers and none of us remember anything exactly the same way. Though none of us have ever killed anyone....

Someone earlier said that, in addition to the published facts of these cases, we bring our own life experiences when we weigh in. I do believe that is true. In my case, I can tell you that my son was 2 and my daughter 5 when I left their father. I won't go into the details as to why I left here, but suffice it to say, there were many, many valid reasons. Anyhoo, my wonderful husband and children's stepfather, who long ago adopted my children legally, has pretty much been the only father they remember. Their own father abandoned them long ago. Neither of them show any signs of psychological discord because they know it's not their fault. By the same token, my niece and nephew have been abandoned by their mother - as teenagers - and show no signs, whatsoever, of serious issues. In both cases, the remaining parents have had serious discussions with the kids to address any possible issues. They have been assured it was not because of them or anything they did. That is not to say that it will not affect them in later years.

My point is, I doubt very much that CR felt "abandoned" by his mother from the age of 2. He really never knew anything but being with VR. I guess I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can possibly believe this is the reason to believe he is guilty of what he has been accused.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, it could be argued then, that Harris' parents didn't recognize what were probably telltale signs either. And let's not overlook the fact that Harris was in high school whereas CR was 8. It's apples and oranges IMO.

Is it nature or nurture? This question can be asked of any siblings raised in the same household and under the same conditions the world over. CR doesn't have any siblings raised under the same circumstances as he was. So, I suppose we'll never know how his environment may have shaped him. I have 2 brothers and none of us remember anything exactly the same way. Though none of us have ever killed anyone....

Someone earlier said that, in addition to the published facts of these cases, we bring our own life experiences when we weigh in. I do believe that is true. In my case, I can tell you that my son was 2 and my daughter 5 when I left their father. I won't go into the details as to why I left here, but suffice it to say, there were many, many valid reasons. Anyhoo, my wonderful husband and children's stepfather, who long ago adopted my children legally, has pretty much been the only father they remember. Their own father abandoned them long ago. Neither of them show any signs of psychological discord because they know it's not their fault. By the same token, my niece and nephew have been abandoned by their mother - as teenagers - and show no signs, whatsoever, of serious issues. In both cases, the remaining parents have had serious discussions with the kids to address any possible issues. They have been assured it was not because of them or anything they did. That is not to say that it will not affect them in later years.

My point is, I doubt very much that CR felt "abandoned" by his mother from the age of 2. He really never knew anything but being with VR. I guess I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can possibly believe this is the reason to believe he is guilty of what he has been accused.

I don't think we can rule out that he felt abandoned by his mother. The literature states that in the first three years of the child's life the mother is the most important relationship they will have. While men certainly can be caregivers and are great at being fathers or step fathers they are not a female and do not bond with the child the same that a mother does or is supposed to do. Their parental role in the child's life are totally different, imo. A mother is the one that teaches her child to bond, to feel love so that the child knows how to return love. We are the nurturers or I would say most mothers are but sadly as we read on this site it is obvious some mothers are not.

I do agree that it is the individual child. While some may not show any signs under the very same set of environmental circumstances others will and that sets them apart. The psychopath seems to be in a league all their own. So the debate goes on as to how psychopaths are made. I don't think the answer is really known and environment and genes may both be factors.

I don't think Harris is irrelevant nor do I blame his parents for his actions. He may have been a psychopath at 18 but it is only logical that he didn't just get that way and the traits were there at a very early age which can be noticed by a professional starting at the age of 2 years old. But most parents aren't experts in this field and often time they try to rationalize away the odd behavior of their child and think it is only phases they are going through.

imo

 

[dgfred]

I think it would be a good idea if you got a special foster license and took all of the training and took this boy in to raise. I'm not being smart I'm dead serious.
This boy needs someone who can spend lots of time with him and who knows just what to do to help him. How about it?

I would be glad too if it was possible. I'm 44, my daughter is going away to college, I have been absorbed in her life and especially sports... I'm going to need someone to look after and help become an athlete.
I do not always know what is the right thing, but I try.
I realize you are being sarcastic, but I would not be afraid of this boy one bit... and could, would do my best to bring him up happy and healthy.

But as things are now, I think his mother is doing just fine. If the vultures would quit following them and the harassing/mud-flinging/mistruths would cease they would be doing even better.

 

[dgfred]

Why would this case be any different?:waitasec:

We always have an opinion when any new information or legal documents first comes in.

Sorry, I cant imagine this kid even being in my family or even someone I know. I have never personally known anyone that killed someone let alone did so at this age.

I think both sides of the story are when the hearing is held.

Whiting had to have already read the attorney responses and he still is going forward tomorrow. So we will see how it goes. I imagine he will have his own witnesses concerning some of the issues listed in the motion.

To me the biggest issue is he hanging around another felon? Not living with him but going over to his house. Maybe Judge Roca will ask the kid when was the last time he saw the felon.

imo

Yeah I hope he does bring witnesses, that would be VERY interesting. I would enjoy more a warning from the judge to the State for misconduct, especially when each accusation is rebutted with truth. I like when some here post their feelings about a case and the debate is ongoing, but it is very disconcerting when they will not admit when they are wrong, or not completely right. If that was the case we could pass out some crow sandwiches right about now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeah I hope he does bring witnesses, that would be VERY interesting. I would enjoy more a warning from the judge to the State for misconduct, especially when each accusation is rebutted with truth. I like when some here post their feelings about a case and the debate is ongoing, but it is very disconcerting when they will not admit when they are wrong, or not completely right. If that was the case we could pass out some crow sandwiches right about now.

What are you talking about "crow sandwiches?":waitasec: What does that have to do with a message board and having individual opinions?

So are you saying you think voicing an opinion is some kind of play off game where the loser should have to eat crow? That sort of seems very childish and immature like a game played back in grammar school, imo. Is this some kind of "one up" game or something? I thought this was a message board where all are entitled to voice their opinions on cases we are interested in. When did it change that everyone has to be right and if not they should eat a crow sandwich?

Strange, I have been right in countless of cases over the years. Never crowed or suggested that anyone should eat crow either. Never told anyone that they weren't entitled to hold onto their own opinions either.

imo

 

[dgfred]

Yeah right, you aren't snarky a bit.

Just saying maybe admitting your opinion is wrong in some cases and on some points is not such a bad thing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeah right, you aren't snarky a bit.

Just saying maybe admitting your opinion is wrong in some cases and on some points is not such a bad thing.

What cases? Winkler's?

I have admitted that I was wrong, I thought the verdict would be first degree and still have the opinion it should have been but the jury didn't agree. I guess you scanned through those posts rather quickly. What other cases are you referring to?

But no one on a message board has to be right every time that I am aware of...

Still right or wrong you can find no posts of mine where I have ever told anyone they aren't entitled to their own opinions or have ever remotely suggested that they eat crow.

imo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Soooooo....Here's to patience waiting for results of the hearing today. I only hope and pray it is fair and not influenced by outside gossip. Please, let it be fair. I hate to think that any legal system/person would make a decision based on that kind of "rag" fodder.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Good grief. Can we not get past the personal "stuff"??? This is getting so lame and old. Geesh...

 

[dgfred]

Hey if you post over and over again what a terrible mother a person is, and how they are/have breaking agreements, not responsible, the boy is running wild, mental problems, endangering the public, etc... because of a premature filing just admit to jumping the gun and being wrong, I do it all the time. I value your opinions, but opposing them and knowing when they are not accurate is not a crime or a personal affront to you.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is very interesting. Thank you, chiperoni!

I do certainly hope that if CR had shown signs of anything that could be construed as a psychopathic personality, his own father, who had been his primary caregiver from the age of 2, would have seen the signs. Surely there would have been some red flags. And I don't mean his charming or manipulative personality. I mean some serious red flags that would have tipped VR off that HE was a target of truly deep-seated anger and rage. I just don't see that as having happened here.

And if those signs were apparent, someone missed them.....big time!

I think they were there...and everyone simply dismissed them. Who would ever think such a young child even capable?

It seems to me, Vince was doing everything possible to raise his son with morals, respect, mutual trust and a sense of responsibility.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, it could be argued then, that Harris' parents didn't recognize what were probably telltale signs either. And let's not overlook the fact that Harris was in high school whereas CR was 8. It's apples and oranges IMO.

Is it nature or nurture? This question can be asked of any siblings raised in the same household and under the same conditions the world over. CR doesn't have any siblings raised under the same circumstances as he was. So, I suppose we'll never know how his environment may have shaped him. I have 2 brothers and none of us remember anything exactly the same way. Though none of us have ever killed anyone....

Someone earlier said that, in addition to the published facts of these cases, we bring our own life experiences when we weigh in. I do believe that is true. In my case, I can tell you that my son was 2 and my daughter 5 when I left their father. I won't go into the details as to why I left here, but suffice it to say, there were many, many valid reasons. Anywho, my wonderful husband and children's stepfather, who long ago adopted my children legally, has pretty much been the only father they remember. Their own father abandoned them long ago. Neither of them show any signs of psychological discord because they know it's not their fault. By the same token, my niece and nephew have been abandoned by their mother - as teenagers - and show no signs, whatsoever, of serious issues. In both cases, the remaining parents have had serious discussions with the kids to address any possible issues. They have been assured it was not because of them or anything they did. That is not to say that it will not affect them in later years.

My point is, I doubt very much that CR felt "abandoned" by his mother from the age of 2. He really never knew anything but being with VR. I guess I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can possibly believe this is the reason to believe he is guilty of what he has been accused.

Abandonment issues aren't always conscious thoughts and feelings. It's interwoven into the fabric of a child's young life.

Two year old's grieve too and having a mother vanish would tramatize any child.

 

[dgfred]

I think they were there...and everyone simply dismissed them. Who would ever think such a young child even capable?

It seems to me, Vince was doing everything possible to raise his son with morals, respect, mutual trust and a sense of responsibility.

Capable or not, you can not leave rifles and ammunition sitting in the open in your home when kids 8-12 can be in the house alone. Anything could happen,
neighbor kids come over... you just never know.

It seems to me that Vince was trying to do well, but some decisions and actions could be perceived as not doing the best job of it. Step-mom doing the spankings, a drug-dealer(?) living in the home, weapons and ammo laying around, etc. There are more that I would question, but since I am not 100% certain of the facts I will not until sure. So it is how you want to look at it imo.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I've been looking for any new information regarding Court today and have found nothing. Has anyone else had better luck???