AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[mostlylurking]

I've been looking for any new information regarding Court today and have found nothing. Has anyone else had better luck???

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...09-child-murder-suspect-custody.870630d7.html

UPDATE: The state prosecutor's motion to revoke the St. John' boy's furlogh has been withdrawn.

3TV's Mike Watkiss reports both parties went behind closed doors and agreed to a new set of furlough conditions.

 

[dgfred]

Too bad it is not like a baseball game:

Release of video strike one. Filing accusation shown to be completely false would be strike two, and the next attempt to further ill feelings toward the boy should be strike three and a good look from the Bar Association.

Maybe some will cut the mother some slack, her position is not enviable at all and imo she is doing the best she can under the circumstances.

So no shackles, no ankle bracelet, no detention, no 24/7 rehabilitation... just back with the mom trying to get on with getting on. Maybe this judge does have a good grip on things and to be sure he knows enough information that shows the boy is not a danger to anyone and will not be.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Yet again, this family is accused of breaking all the rules and we find out that was not even close to the case. Though some of us, I think, are not surprised. I'm beginning to wonder who is spreading such unfounded rumors to cause intentional distress that is unwarranted here. What's the point? This only makes them no better than any other small time criminal, imvho. Geesh....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...09-child-murder-suspect-custody.870630d7.html

UPDATE: The state prosecutor's motion to revoke the St. John' boy's furlough has been withdrawn.

3TV's Mike Watkiss reports both parties went behind closed doors and agreed to a new set of furlough conditions.

And boy did they set them. So if Wood went behind closed doors there was more to this than rumors. If not he couldnt have gotten in the courtroom fast enough so the media could hear him refute all the allegations. lol

They laid down the law this time and made it clear as a bell.

He is on house arrest (hmm maybe he did sneak off and go to the dugout) until the evaluators can rule he is not a danger to himself or others. It specifically mentions he cant go to any public functions.

I wonder what kind of medication he is required to take as prescribed?

imo

 

[mostlylurking]

And boy did they set them. So if Wood went behind closed doors there was more to this than rumors. If not he couldnt have gotten in the courtroom fast enough so the media could hear him refute all the allegations. lol

They laid down the law this time and made it clear as a bell.

He is on house arrest (hmm maybe he did sneak off and go to the dugout) until the evaluators can rule he is not a danger to himself or others. It specifically mentions he cant go to any public functions.

I wonder what kind of medication he is required to take as prescribed?

imo

huh? I mean really, "and boy did he set them" -- what does that mean?
Virtually everything on this case has been behind closed doors when it comes to details. What does that even have to do with things today?

"They laid down the law this time and made it clear as a bell." again, huh? Where are you seeing that? Were you there? Do you know something that the rest of us don't? I do know someone who was there today & I'm not getting the same perspective you are.

Meds -- not a requirement -- he does not have any he is required to take presently.

ETA: -- Nevermind on this. I saw the court posting and "get" your interpretation now. Don't necessarily agree with your interpretation, but get where you are coming from now.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yet again, this family is accused of breaking all the rules and we find out that was not even close to the case. Though some of us, I think, are not surprised. I'm beginning to wonder who is spreading such unfounded rumors to cause intentional distress that is unwarranted here. What's the point? This only makes them no better than any other small time criminal, imvho. Geesh....

Why go over all the rules AGAIN and have all parties stipulate to them if none were actually broken?

If they were all lies and petty gossip as a few have claimed, why go over the rules AGAIN??????????

 

[Fairy1]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/06/16/20090616ChildCharged16-ON.html?&wired


ST. JOHNS — A prosecutor has withdrawn his request to have a 9-year-old eastern Arizona boy returned to custody while he awaits sentencing in the death of his father's friend.

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting had alleged numerous violations of the boy's furlough, but the attorney for the boy's mother says she followed the rules governing his release.

Whiting says the release terms were never fully laid out. After meeting with attorneys for the boy, his mother and the county probation department on Tuesday, Whiting says they agreed to a set of rules that will allow the boy to remain in his mother's care.



They're not releasing many details - as usual! But I sure hope the court made the rules clear THIS time! Hard to follow them if you don't know what they are....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Why go over all the rules AGAIN and have all parties stipulate to them if none were actually broken?

If they were all lies and petty gossip as a few have claimed, why go over the rules AGAIN??????????

If they were all lies why would Wood be behind closed doors?

They weren't all lies. His status has changed. He is now on house arrest and something had to have happened for that to be his status now.

They not only went over the rules but they added some. The first stipulations weren't this precise.

Now they have cinched this boy up and is going to make him stay put until at least the sentencing, imo.

 

[mostlylurking]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/06/16/20090616ChildCharged16-ON.html?&wired

ST. JOHNS — A prosecutor has withdrawn his request to have a 9-year-old eastern Arizona boy returned to custody while he awaits sentencing in the death of his father's friend.

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting had alleged numerous violations of the boy's furlough, but the attorney for the boy's mother says she followed the rules governing his release.

Whiting says the release terms were never fully laid out. After meeting with attorneys for the boy, his mother and the county probation department on Tuesday, Whiting says they agreed to a set of rules that will allow the boy to remain in his mother's care.



They're not releasing many details - as usual! But I sure hope the court made the rules clear THIS time! Hard to follow them if you don't know what they are....

Bolding by me ---
See, when I read this today, I thought I hadn't seen anything docs like this before relative to CR. Most of it looked like standard probationary type stuff from my perspective & then some others were specific to him -- ie. g/pg movies, video games, etc.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If they were all lies why would Wood be behind closed doors?

They weren't all lies. His status has changed. He is now on house arrest and something had to have happened for that to be his status now.

They not only went over the rules but they added some. The first stipulations weren't this precise.

Now they have cinched this boy up and is going to make him stay put until at least the sentencing, imo.

Totally agree!

 

[Openmind]

Amazing how people can see the same information and have such different views on what it means.

These are my opinions.

If the boy really did run into the dugout, there are many witnesses to verify or dispel the claim. Like the grandmother buying the gun and then implying why, it does make it look like they are fanning the rumor mill. It is more dramatic to speculate a darker reason than to make a phone call and get the facts.

Since this case brings out such strong emotions in people, that they were behind closed doors strikes me as a very wise choice. I don't read anything into this except they are protecting the privacy of all parties and to maintain the integrity of the information.

For me, it is a very important point that the boy is living with his mother in parental grandmother's home.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Amazing how people can see the same information and have such different views on what it means.

These are my opinions.

If the boy really did run into the dugout, there are many witnesses to verify or dispel the claim. Like the grandmother buying the gun and then implying why, it does make it look like they are fanning the rumor mill. It is more dramatic to speculate a darker reason than to make a phone call and get the facts.

Since this case brings out such strong emotions in people, that they were behind doors strikes me as a very wise choice. I don't read anything into this except they are protecting the privacy of all parties and to maintain the integrity of the information.

For me, it is a very important point that the boy is living with his mother in parental grandmother's home.

The important thing to me with the boy being on house arrest it will give a downtime for the St. John's citizens where they will know they will not chance running into him on the street. Maybe passions will calm down some now at least until his sentencing and Liz and Eryn wont have to worry about his safety either.

Yes, I just read an article that Whiting did have witnesses ready to testify today but then they went in behind closed doors. For all we know when Wood saw the witnesses were there he asked Whiting to discuss this in the Judge's chambers. It is obvious that he did violate or they wouldn't have included that he cannot go to any public event.

This entire time he has not been under house arrest before. That has now changed so it seems to me that Whiting did have much more than just rumor. If Wood could have really refuted all the alleged violations then the same old same old routine would have been in place and no new motion necessary after months.

imo

 

[Openmind]

Yes, I just read an article that Whiting did have witnesses ready to testify today but then they went in behind closed doors. For all we know when Wood saw the witnesses were there he asked Whiting to discuss this in the Judge's chambers. It is obvious that he did violate or they wouldn't have included that he cannot go to any public event.

I would have liked to have heard the witnesses and exactly what they say happened.

AP Press

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting had alleged numerous violations of the boy's most recent furlough that attorneys for the boy and his mother denied. Whiting said he was prepared to call witnesses to testify Tuesday. But then he met with defense attorneys and the juvenile probation department, and they agreed to a set of rules that will allow the boy to remain in his mother's care.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i_IcuqHYpRoe_wCPGKUM3Ms8JpLgD98S53TG0

I don't know, it sounds like they decided to deal with this in a responsible and reasonable way.

He has been on house arrest since being granted his latest monthslong furlough, but attorneys in the case agreed the conditions of his release were never as clear as they could have been.

One thing everyone has been guilty of in this case is not giving enough thought to outcomes for any and all events.

This entire time he has not been under house arrest before. That has now changed so it seems to me that Whiting did have much more than just rumor. If Wood could have really refuted all the alleged violations then the same old same old routine would have been in place and no new motion necessary after months.

My opinions differ on this. The allegations force more definition of his confinement, but I don't know you can fault the family for not knowing what the limits were if the limits were not well defined.

 

[Fairy1]

He has been on house arrest since being granted his latest monthslong furlough, but attorneys in the case agreed the conditions of his release were never as clear as they could have been.

The new rules make it clear that the boy cannot leave Navajo or Apache counties without written permission from his probation officer, and he cannot watch cable TV or play unapproved video games. He also must submit to searches of his property, and to blood, urine and Breathalyzer tests. No weapons are allowed in his home.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/06/16/20090616ChildCharged16-ON.html?&wired

If I'm reading this correctly, he has been on house arrest - it's nothing new. I'm happy to see the terms of his furlough are more well-defined this time around. Though I'm sorry to see that he is, in fact, a prisoner. Not sure how anyone can raise a socially responsible person without social interaction outside of the home. I suppose time will tell if that theory works in practice.

 

[Openmind]

If I'm reading this correctly, he has been on house arrest - it's nothing new. I'm happy to see the terms of his furlough are more well-defined this time around. Though I'm sorry to see that he is, in fact, a prisoner. Not sure how anyone can raise a socially responsible person without social interaction outside of the home. I suppose time will tell if that theory works in practice.

I would assume when they get the evaluations on July 16th they will determine the conditions of his long term placement. I would also guess these rules are temporay, and the court will have the input of medical professionals as to what will best foster his recovery and movement back into society.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I would have liked to have heard the witnesses and exactly what they say happened.

AP Press

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i_IcuqHYpRoe_wCPGKUM3Ms8JpLgD98S53TG0

I don't know, it sounds like they decided to deal with this in a responsible and reasonable way.



One thing everyone has been guilty of in this case is not giving enough thought to outcomes for any and all events.




My opinions differ on this. The allegations force more definition of his confinement, but I don't know you can fault the family for not knowing what the limits were if the limits were not well defined.

Good Morning,

I really think the family knew all of this beforehand. Much of it was already laid out in the previous documents except the house arrest.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing. Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm Surely Wood really didnt believe that Whiting would just show up with no proof or witnesses.

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. The defense agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns and the defense knew it imo.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street and on house arrest until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting. When I think of "furlough" now it does not mesh with a "house arrest" situation.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which passions only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He has been on house arrest since being granted his latest monthslong furlough, but attorneys in the case agreed the conditions of his release were never as clear as they could have been.

The new rules make it clear that the boy cannot leave Navajo or Apache counties without written permission from his probation officer, and he cannot watch cable TV or play unapproved video games. He also must submit to searches of his property, and to blood, urine and Breathalyzer tests. No weapons are allowed in his home.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/06/16/20090616ChildCharged16-ON.html?&wired

If I'm reading this correctly, he has been on house arrest - it's nothing new. I'm happy to see the terms of his furlough are more well-defined this time around. Though I'm sorry to see that he is, in fact, a prisoner. Not sure how anyone can raise a socially responsible person without social interaction outside of the home. I suppose time will tell if that theory works in practice.

Then if he has been on house arrest all this time he certainly would be in grave violation if he went to a public ballfield.

I do think Whiting had credible witnesses lined up to testify to this violation.

"Whiting said the most significant change to the terms of the boy's release is that he's not allowed to attend any formal public events, such as graduations, parades, fairs or other celebrations. Among the allegations in Whiting's motion was that the boy recently attended a Little League game, drawing protest from some players' parents."

It seems he is being told to stay away from the public as a whole.

imo

 

[dgfred]

Good Morning,

I really think the family knew all of this beforehand. Much of it was already laid out in the previous documents except the house arrest.

Wood told Whiting to more or less put up or shut up. SO Whiting had his witnesses ready to testify before the public hearing. Then all of a sudden they are behind closed doors in chambers instead of in a public media filled room. Hmmm Surely Wood really didnt believe that Whiting would just show up with no proof or witnesses.

Whiting got exactly what he wanted. The defense agreed to everything imo even the house arrest.

It shows that Whiting did have legitimate concerns and the defense knew it imo.

Now the guidelines are very clear and precise.

Whiting has him off the street and on house arrest until at least sentencing. It was a good day for CA Whiting. When I think of "furlough" now it does not mesh with a "house arrest" situation.

Now the town will have a chance to calm down some which passions only escalated when they saw this kid out fancy free.

imo

Whiting could not put up so I guess he will have to shut up from now on. Yeah, he had witnesses ready... but they were not there and their allegations were NOT substantiated- that is why nothing happened to the boy as far as revoking furlough... RIGHT? If they were ready, why not bring them to court and let them testify (or perjure themselves) and get the boy's furlough revoked. Didn't happen because they couldn't do that imo. Legitimate concerns... right, he has shown that all along. Everything is basically the same with the guidlines- only made sure it was clear to BOTH sides. He already was not allowed at public functions, and he was never out 'fancy free'
Whiting didn't do jack, he hasn't 'got him off the street', he can still do the things he was already doing. In fact, I imagine alot of lawyers around the country are getting a good snicker at Whiting's expense if they are following the case closely, how embarrassing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Whiting could not put up so I guess he will have to shut up from now on. Yeah, he had witnesses ready... but they were not there and their allegations were NOT substantiated- that is why nothing happened to the boy as far as revoking furlough... RIGHT? If they were ready, why not bring them to court and let them testify (or perjure themselves) and get the boy's furlough revoked. Didn't happen because they couldn't do that is. Legitimate concerns... right, he has shown that all along. Everything is basically the same with the guidlines- only made sure it was clear to BOTH sides. He already was not allowed at public functions, and he was never out 'fancy free'
Jeez, turn off the spin cycle on your washer. If you keep throwing up mud maybe something will eventually stick. Whiting didn't do jack, he hasn't 'got him off the street', he can still do the things he was already doing. In fact, I imagine alot of lawyers around the country are getting a good snicker at Whiting's expense if they are following the case closely, how embarrassing.

Who thought the boy's furlough would be revoked? Not me!

It played out just as I expected it would....the terms and conditions were added to and written using easy to understand language, complete with examples, for the DENSE!

 

[Openmind]

I don't think much changed. Whiting withdrew the request. All they did was better define expectations and limitatons. The child can leave his house just not to go to public events. The mother has held firm to keeping him with her. Vincent's mother is in agreement to this, and that means a lot.

From this article --
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/n...-year-old-back-in/VZhOJvsP506EraIgOIrRRQ.cspx

According to statements made at previous hearings, she can request for his probation to be moved to a different City or State after disposition.

I hope she does. Sadly, there will be many that feel it is their place to exact some punishment for this child. They don't feel the courts acted correctly and secretly hope he exhibits some behavior they can point their finger at and say "told you." It could be something perfectly normal, but since "he' did it, it will be suspect. If the courts think he can be rehabilitated, people watching his every move and freaking over everything he does, will not allow him to live a normal life.