AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[OrdinaryLife]

I base my conclusion on the evidence, the time line and watching that child lie his little face off. Watching him sitting there chatting it up without a care in the world spinning lie after lie...it wasn't until he was caught in those lies did he show any emotion. What I saw wasn't remorse, it was regret that he was caught. That's my opinion, and I believe he's a psychopath.

I don't believe this child HAS a conscience.

I don't believe the evaluation will state he's a psychopath, they can't make that diagnoses because he's a child. That doesn't change my opinion or prognoses of him. I believe the evaluation will make the diagnoses of Severe Conduct Disorder. That's as close as they can get to psychopath.

Well, I guess I just disagree with your opinion. I never observed to the point of judgement as your have. I'll await the final professional diagnosis over others. FWIW, I've done research regarding children and what your opinion is regarding this child. It is not an easy diagnosis nor is it common. I prefer to tread carefully and err than share my very uneducated self into an area that I have no clear knowledge of when it comes to children and psychology.

imvho

 

[dgfred]

I believe he was released to his mother because he was eight years old and didn't belong in what would basically be solitary confinement. He was too young to house with the other juveniles. Keeping him alone and separate would be cruel and usual. It was quite a quandary.

There was no appropriate place to put him until the evaluations were completed and a residential treatment facility was found that would accept him. He was a liability that no foster care agency or foster parent would want.

That's why he was placed with his mother with as many safeguards in place as possible to ensure his safety as well as societies. He is only 8 and not much danger without a gun and the element of surprise.

all in my opinion

That doesn't seem right to me. A 'psychotic killer' as you say would need to be in solitary confinement. Age was not an issue to LE when releasing the video. A quandry, they had there killer right... he would need to be confined.

No appropriate place to put a psychotic killer, but with his mom??? Why are the safeguards different now than before, oh yeah... there were not any before. The guns, ammo, free time alone, and other (?) that was going on was a travesty in itself. What about charges to others because there were no 'safeguards' before? A psychotic killer would be a danger in any househould, they could grab a knife, a fork, an ornament, a lamp, a glass, etc
to become a threat/danger to anyone. Not living with mom.

So either the problem that was there before is not a problem now imo... or the mom better sleep with one eye open and always be looking over her shoulder because she is keeping a psychopathic killer. I choose to believe the first scenario by the judge's original decision and thus he would not, and will not be in the future a danger to anyone.

 

[southcitymom]

I truly don't believe the boy would have been released to his Mom if anyone thought he was genuinely dangerous to her or the community at large. His age also factored into it, of course, but at this stage in the game, I assume the Court has reviewed any number of psych opinions and still does not consider him a viable threat to his Mom, et al.

He was obviously a danger to his father and the roommate, but I think that was a specific danger - that something in those specific relationships pushed him to the point that he killed. Of course, that's not a normal point for a child to be pushed to, but, IMHO, it doesn't mean he's a sociopath.

While I personally don't hold the opinion that this child is a sociopath, I think it is fair to explore it in our discussions of this case because it is most certainly one of the potential could be's.

 

[dgfred]

I truly don't believe the boy would have been released to his Mom if anyone thought he was genuinely dangerous to her or the community at large. His age also factored into it, of course, but at this stage in the game, I assume the Court has reviewed any number of psych opinions and still does not consider him a viable threat to his Mom, et al.

He was obviously a danger to his father and the roommate, but I think that was a specific danger - that something in those specific relationships pushed him to the point that he killed. Of course, that's not a normal point for a child to be pushed to, but, IMHO, it doesn't mean he's a sociopath.

While I personally don't hold the opinion that this child is a sociopath, I think it is fair to explore it in our discussions of this case because it is most certainly one of the potential could be's.

Excellent points. So it would be fair to say at this point of our exploration and discussion, the boy is NOT a psychopath just by the interpretation of the judge's previous decision. Also this makes it 'cruel and unusual punishment' to even think of putting the boy in a jailed facility imo, after being able to live with his mom. This doesn't mean he would not need loads of treatment, help and probation (if he is the sole shooter)... but not jail by any means.

 

[sdn8tv]

Uhhh, maybe she has talked to people that have actually seen the reports . See, I can use some common sense every now and then. :angel:

DG...
It is much easier to believe here doesn't know this boy, the family and anything about the case and the only information available is that what is posted on blogs or media. I actually refuse to provide any further information to give for debate. I know what I know and those that know me know how I know it and I don't need to provide it. Let the bloggers think they know.

The psychiatric evaluations are not released nor are they public...

 

[azmama]

Well, I guess I just disagree with your opinion. I never observed to the point of judgement as your have. I'll await the final professional diagnosis over others. FWIW, I've done research regarding children and what your opinion is regarding this child. It is not an easy diagnosis nor is it common. I prefer to tread carefully and err than share my very uneducated self into an area that I have no clear knowledge of when it comes to children and psychology.

imvho

Amen! I couldn't have said it better. I have never seen such a bunch of armchair experts in all my life, lending "their expertise" to something, a situation they know absolutely NOTHING about, if it wasn't a little boys life at stake, it would be laughable.

I guess the internet allows you the luxury of anonymous blathering, quite a luxury when railing on about things you know nothing about.:twocents:

 

[southcitymom]

Excellent points. So it would be fair to say at this point of our exploration and discussion, the boy is NOT a psychopath just by the interpretation of the judge's previous decision. Also this makes it 'cruel and unusual punishment' to even think of putting the boy in a jailed facility imo, after being able to live with his mom. This doesn't mean he would not need loads of treatment, help and probation (if he is the sole shooter)... but not jail by any means.

Well, it's fair in MY opinion to say he's not a psychopath, but I also think opinions that he might be one are valid. I interpret the very limited evidence we have differently than some others here do. While I, of course, think my interpretations are "right" (LOL!), I don't KNOW anything because of, again, the limited information to which we all have access.

The only way I could see jail as a viable option for him would be if jail could offer him loads of treatment that he otherwise couldn't have. It is my deepest desire that he NOT wind up in jail, but again, I could envision a potential scenario where that might be the best for him. I think the powers that be are looking at all of this.

 

[southcitymom]

Amen! I couldn't have said it better. I have never seen such a bunch of armchair experts in all my life, lending "their expertise" to something, a situation they know absolutely NOTHING about, if it wasn't a little boys life at stake, it would be laughable.

I guess the internet allows you the luxury of anonymous blathering, quite a luxury when railing on about things you know nothing about.:twocents:

Due respect to all who hold this opinion: Every single one of us (regardless of our positions about what the hell happened in this terrible case) who have weighed in here are "armchair experts" lending our opinions about a situation where every single one of us have basically the same access to information.

Why do people who have opinions one might not agree with become laughable idiots babbling about things they don't know about and people who have opinions one agrees with become well-stated champions?

I'm not following this double standard.

 

[southcitymom]

Information that is not available to all of us following this case can't be expected to weigh into our opinions on it. I respect that those who say they know more feel strongly that they know more. I wish that those of us who aren't privvy to this "more" information could be respected for discussing what we DO know as opposed to being told "you need to believe me because I have seen things you can't see." It's unrealistic to think that such an attitude will change anyone's mind.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That doesn't seem right to me. A 'psychotic killer' as you say would need to be in solitary confinement. Age was not an issue to LE when releasing the video. A quandry, they had there killer right... he would need to be confined.

No appropriate place to put a psychotic killer, but with his mom??? Why are the safeguards different now than before, oh yeah... there were not any before. The guns, ammo, free time alone, and other (?) that was going on was a travesty in itself. What about charges to others because there were no 'safeguards' before? A psychotic killer would be a danger in any househould, they could grab a knife, a fork, an ornament, a lamp, a glass, etc
to become a threat/danger to anyone. Not living with mom.

So either the problem that was there before is not a problem now imo... or the mom better sleep with one eye open and always be looking over her shoulder because she is keeping a psychopathic killer. I choose to believe the first scenario by the judge's original decision and thus he would not, and will not be in the future a danger to anyone.

I never said he was psychotic and don't believe he is now

 

[mostlylurking]

Information that is not available to all of us following this case can't be expected to weigh into our opinions on it. I respect that those who say they know more feel strongly that they know more. I wish that those of us who aren't privvy to this "more" information could be respected for discussing what we DO know as opposed to being told "you need to believe me because I have seen things you can't see." It's unrealistic to think that such an attitude will change anyone's mind.

You are ever the mediator, my friend.
Aren't you supposed to be enjoying your anniversary, instead of mediating an internet blog where the two very opposing opinions will likely never come to terms with their differences of opinion????
Unless, of course, the "other" side comes to agree with "my" point of view... :croc:

 

[southcitymom]

You are ever the mediator, my friend.
Aren't you supposed to be enjoying your anniversary, instead of mediating an internet blog where the two very opposing opinions will likely never come to terms with their differences of opinion????
Unless, of course, the "other" side comes to agree with "my" point of view... :croc:

Ha - ha! You are absolutely right that I shouldn't have my nose in the computer on my anniversary weekend! I had so much fun, ML - but, alas, I came down with a terrible cold! My deepest respect to you, as always!

 

[sdn8tv]

Information that is not available to all of us following this case can't be expected to weigh into our opinions on it. I respect that those who say they know more feel strongly that they know more. I wish that those of us who aren't privvy to this "more" information could be respected for discussing what we DO know as opposed to being told "you need to believe me because I have seen things you can't see." It's unrealistic to think that such an attitude will change anyone's mind.

SCM

I have been thinking about your post and my apologizes. It is just very tough for me, because I personally know this boy, know his mom and the rest of the family. I have had them in my home many times. I am privvy to more information and I should not interfere with the discussion of others. I will not post what I know (on a public site) or what we are doing or what is really happening, so I will leave the discussions.

The only thing I would like to say...
Remember everyone when your discussing this boy and calling him a cold calculating murderer, psychopath, etc. he was an innocent little boy who went through he$$ and felt there was no way out. He knows what he did was wrong and he is ready to accept his punishment...he knows the adults in his life have let him down...he misses his father terribly, he misses the kids that no longer get to play with him, he misses going to school.

So those of you (not you SCM)who get satisifaction from fabricating, stretching, putting your own spin on this have at it. Remember some day this boy and/or his mom might actually see this (I pray he doesn't) because some people are outright mean and this is nothing more than a hobby to blog about these cases. Those of us who really care have done something about it and are making things happen...the rest just talk on.

 

[southcitymom]

SCM

I have been thinking about your post and my apologizes. It is just very tough for me, because I personally know this boy, know his mom and the rest of the family. I have had them in my home many times. I am privvy to more information and I should not interfere with the discussion of others. I will not post what I know (on a public site) or what we are doing or what is really happening, so I will leave the discussions.

The only thing I would like to say...
Remember everyone when your discussing this boy and calling him a cold calculating murderer, psychopath, etc. he was an innocent little boy who went through he$$ and felt there was no way out. He knows what he did was wrong and he is ready to accept his punishment...he knows the adults in his life have let him down...he misses his father terribly, he misses the kids that no longer get to play with him, he misses going to school.

So those of you (not you SCM)who get satisifaction from fabricating, stretching, putting your own spin on this have at it. Remember some day this boy and/or his mom might actually see this (I pray he doesn't) because some people are outright mean and this is nothing more than a hobby to blog about these cases. Those of us who really care have done something about it and are making things happen...the rest just talk on.

Thank you for this post, sdn8tv. :blowkiss: I'm not even going to pretend I know how awful it would be for me to read some of the opinions that have been posited here and elsewhere about this child if I was as close as I believe (and always have believed) you are.

I know you (and others) are his champion, and I believe you know by both my words and my actions that I am with you all of the way and in any real way in my desire to help him and those who love him.

ML is probably right on the money regarding my mediative nature coming out in this discussion. My apologies if I came across as *****y or uncaring. It is certainly not my job to be anything but a participant here, but more is learned and realized by all when we are gentle with each other. A few months ago, you yourself helped me open my mind to some possibilities I had not been truly able to consider in this case because your words, while impassioned, were kind and respectful. Because I didn't feel attacked for my opinion, I was truly able to hear what you had to say.

Most of us are not intimately attached to the many cases we discuss here. People have different styles in putting their opinions out there, but when it comes right down to it, that's all they are - opinions based on available facts, our own life experiences and our guts. All discussion is, IMHO, valid.

FWIW, I personally try to post mindfully and with conscious awareness that these are not concepts but human beings. I'm sure I miss that target from time to time, but my aim is there!

This case has touched so many of us in different ways. And we try to make sense out of it and that's really hard because most of us will not ever have the vast majority of information.

 

[colette]

sdn8tv, maybe you know a side to the boy we don't. We did see a video of a boy who seemed unconcerned with the murders of two men, one of whom is his father. We understood they were gunned down while just comming home from work. We know one was lured into the home while talking to his wife. This is all we can go on. Too bad if he sees blogs about the murders later in life. How can that be any worse than the actual cold blooded shooting of 2 unarmed men?

 

[chiperoni]

SCM

I have been thinking about your post and my apologizes. It is just very tough for me, because I personally know this boy, know his mom and the rest of the family. I have had them in my home many times. I am privvy to more information and I should not interfere with the discussion of others. I will not post what I know (on a public site) or what we are doing or what is really happening, so I will leave the discussions.

The only thing I would like to say...
Remember everyone when your discussing this boy and calling him a cold calculating murderer, psychopath, etc. he was an innocent little boy who went through he$$ and felt there was no way out. He knows what he did was wrong and he is ready to accept his punishment...he knows the adults in his life have let him down...he misses his father terribly, he misses the kids that no longer get to play with him, he misses going to school.

So those of you (not you SCM)who get satisifaction from fabricating, stretching, putting your own spin on this have at it. Remember some day this boy and/or his mom might actually see this (I pray he doesn't) because some people are outright mean and this is nothing more than a hobby to blog about these cases. Those of us who really care have done something about it and are making things happen...the rest just talk on.

Thank you for bringing us back to reality. I pray that that this boy and his entire family survive and forgive one another.

 

[southcitymom]

sdn8tv, maybe you know a side to the boy we don't. We did see a video of a boy who seemed unconcerned with the murders of two men, one of whom is his father. We understood they were gunned down while just comming home from work. We know one was lured into the home while talking to his wife. This is all we can go on. Too bad if he sees blogs about the murders later in life. How can that be any worse than the actual cold blooded shooting of 2 unarmed men?

Respectfully, I never saw a video of a boy who seemed unconcerned with the murder of two men.

And I actually think reliving a terrible thing that you did as a child LATER as an adult through the unsympathetic words of strangers could be at least as detrimental to mental, spiritual and emotional peace and stability as the actual crime itself. God willing, someone will counsel him not to seek out his name on the internet and he will listen.

I think you bring up a great point regarding how cases are viewed and processed when we DO know the "perp" and when we DON'T know the "perp".

 

[Linda7NJ]

SCM

I have been thinking about your post and my apologizes. It is just very tough for me, because I personally know this boy, know his mom and the rest of the family. I have had them in my home many times. I am privvy to more information and I should not interfere with the discussion of others. I will not post what I know (on a public site) or what we are doing or what is really happening, so I will leave the discussions.

The only thing I would like to say...
Remember everyone when your discussing this boy and calling him a cold calculating murderer, psychopath, etc. he was an innocent little boy who went through he$$ and felt there was no way out. He knows what he did was wrong and he is ready to accept his punishment...he knows the adults in his life have let him down...he misses his father terribly, he misses the kids that no longer get to play with him, he misses going to school.

So those of you (not you SCM)who get satisifaction from fabricating, stretching, putting your own spin on this have at it. Remember some day this boy and/or his mom might actually see this (I pray he doesn't) because some people are outright mean and this is nothing more than a hobby to blog about these cases. Those of us who really care have done something about it and are making things happen...the rest just talk on.

Respectfully, I still disagree with your opinions. In my experience, those closest to the situation, especially when emotionally invested in the defendant, are often prevented from being objective.

I still don't believe the defendant "went through he$$." We know of no evidence that supports that, none, zero. There wasn't a mark on the child. His "spanking log" was just another fabrication.....right along with the "getaway car" and his many many laps around the block.

I know what I saw when watching that hour long video tape. It was FRIGHTENING! This wasn't self defense. This was cold premeditated murder.

Being concerned isn't a hobby for me. For you to insinuate that *I* or anyone else doesn't really care, because we don't share your opinions.... is frankly, insulting.

 

[dgfred]

I never said he was psychotic and don't believe he is now

Only because you said 'twisted' before it . You have said plenty about the kid, not much of it decent.

 

[jjenny]

I truly don't believe the boy would have been released to his Mom if anyone thought he was genuinely dangerous to her or the community at large. His age also factored into it, of course, but at this stage in the game, I assume the Court has reviewed any number of psych opinions and still does not consider him a viable threat to his Mom, et al.

He was obviously a danger to his father and the roommate, but I think that was a specific danger - that something in those specific relationships pushed him to the point that he killed. Of course, that's not a normal point for a child to be pushed to, but, IMHO, it doesn't mean he's a sociopath.

While I personally don't hold the opinion that this child is a sociopath, I think it is fair to explore it in our discussions of this case because it is most certainly one of the potential could be's.

Completely aside from this case, we know people are released into the community (parole, etc), and they sometimes go on to commit more crimes. So what would make you think this particular boy would not be released to his mother unless it was believed he wasn't a danger to anyone?